I have to get this off my chest. Having read a plethora of information about LGATs, in general, and specific companies, in particular, I would like to add my two cents about another LGAT based in South Florida called Summit Education; I have noticed only one or two minor posts about this company.

It all began when I started dating a woman who was involved in Summit's Leadership Program. Not a day went by without my girlfriend passionately promoting Summit and its life-transforming benefits. After a few weeks of badgering, I agreed to attend one of Summit's mind-numbing Guest Events. Everything mentioned on here about Guest Events is correct. No fewer than 6 people, including my girlfriend, aggressively persuaded (i.e, "enroll") me in the Basic workshop, which was taking place in just a few weeks. I said no and held my ground.

Yet more passionate conversations and arguments continued until, finally, I relented -- my gf agreed to pay the $495 tuition. So, I went through the entire 40 hours of the Basic workshop. Can you say mind-f***k? Ray Blanchard was my trainer, and again, every description on this site about LGAT Basic trainings applied to my experience. The first 3 days were devoted to explaining "distinctions", harshly dismissing any critical questions, laboriously going over ground rules and repeating jargon-laden, thought stopping cliches.

At one point I missed one of my coaching calls -- God forbid I was busy at work and simply forgot. Three hours later I caught up with my coach, who, might I add, is a very decent fellow. But a few minutes later my gf called me; she said Kathy Cushman, one of the owners of Summit, told her that I had missed my coaching call and asked if "I was okay." Why was Kathy informing my gf that I missed my coaching call? And if she was concerned that I was decompensating or having a "breakdown", why not call ME?

I called Kathy's husband and co-owner, Ken, and asked why the training's confidentiality rules did not apply to Summit's staff. He shot back angrily, diagnosing me with "a trust issue", and broaching the prospect that I may not be able to "handle" the trainings. Any concerns I may have had about my treatment in the workshops were emphatically dismissed as my problem. So much for the old adage that the customer is always right.

I was livid.

But I continued attending -- couldn't get a refund at this point, and I had committed to my girlfriend, whom I loved, to give the training "100%". The rest of the weekend followed the requisite pattern: trance induction exercises, love bombing, hugs and sobbing everywhere, and obsequious attention focused on super-trainer Ray. Who was this guy?

By the last night, I was crying and loving everyone. I was totally wrong about this experience, I thought. And Ray was an extraordinary person. I wanted to be like him. I heard his voice in my head for days afterward. It was a powerful experience. I felt extremely confident & self-assured. That is, until Summit androids pressured me like nobody's business to enroll in the Advanced workshop (a scant $995 for 60 hours of nonstop confrontation and verbal abuse). Thanks to the positive efffects of the Basic, I was capable of telling Kathy Cushman that she was full of shit. Of course, she gave me a searching gaze and told me I was making up "stories".

The long and short of this experience is, when all is said and done, I became a psychological casualty of Summit Ed's training methodology. I may not have had a psychotic episode, but my emotions were manipulated and jacked around in bizarre, coercive fashion.

Meanwhile, surprise surprise, my gf and I have split up. I had changed my mind about enrolling in the Advanced workshop, so naturally I was accused of not having the fortitude to commit or to keep my word (word=integrity). I felt worse than I did when I started the damn workshop.

My ex has now completed LP (from what I witnessed, a torturous experience), and has raved about "3rd Weekend." Of course, she couldn't spare any details. Apparently, out of all the secretive crap they do, 3rd w/e is the most sacred.

She continues to emphasize that I need more Summit curriculum to create a happy life. She's eagerly committed to "staffing" the next Basic and has enrolled her mom and anyone else she can convince to do this series of pseudo-philosophical psycho-babble.

I am, of course, in the "drift" and cannot "get off it". Am I going crazy?
I feel powerless to show my ex, whom I still care about, to think more critically about these workshops, as well as to question the manipulative, angry people who operate them.

But maybe I AM taking all this too seriously.

Is there anyone out there who can relate to my experience?

Hello,

When you say:

Quote

Am I going crazy?

- yes, I can relate to your experience!!! :lol:


But seriously - I don't think you're taking this too seriously. Even without severe psychiatric casualties these organisations basically take away people's freedom and restructure their lives - all for profit.

The basic business model is they push people into making superficially attractive changes in their lives and then they hold up those people as models, walking-talking adverts for the courses. And they are most effective at brain-washing people into believing their lives have been improved even when the opposite is true.

And the pressure never ends; there is always one more course to do and if you don't want to then have to 'get over yourself' because you are 'coming from ego' and 'holding yourself back' and 'afraid of taking a risk' etc etc ad nauseum.

The courses are all nauseatingly similar so if you read any of the threads here you will pick up lots of information.

For advice on helping people who're still involved have a look under the PSI thread. Other than that all you can do is ask your ex to explicitly explain what benefit she has received, in concrete terms, and how much it has cost. One of their scams is getting people to pull their friends and families and spouses in - with disastrous consequences, as you will see if you read the PSI, Klemmer and other threads.

I don't hold out much hope for changing anyone's mind while they're involved as you're working against a very thorough and efficient brain-washing corporation. The best you can do is be her friend, gently point out the problems and in time it should wear off or the disillusion will set in naturally. Be the person she can speak to when she has doubts and make it clear you will never pull an 'I told you so' on her. Maybe other people will have more optimistic views, that's just my opinion.


PS May I ask what games / exercises they do on Summit? Do they do any of these:

- the red/black game
- dyads
- trust / hug circle
- matchstick game
- chair game
- raising hands to music as you enter the hall?


What are the key jargon words they use?

- commitment
- integrety
- agreements
- intention
- choose
- reality (you create it)
- possibility
- ?????

Listen we can sit here all day and debate whether what they believe in is "right". The reality is that they believe it as much as they believe the sky is blue. I did Basic, Advanced, and LP. and let me tell you something, thank g-d I got out and never looked back.

It was a traumatic experience for me where I ended up alienating people I care about (sound familiar?).

The first 2 courses have some potential benefits but stay the hell away from LP. The way that Summit does it is structure to get more people in it while masking it as "we need people to change the world". Meanwhile all they want is money.

jsmiami,

Please post whatever you can about Summit. The truth is these LGATs got smart and have now splintered into smaller, regional groups, like Summit. So, unlike Landmark, Legacy and LifeSpring, or any other well know group of these kinds, when somebody searches "Summit Education" very little ever come up.

When my friend first joined Summit, and I got uneasy about it, the only nefarious thing I found about it was a a reference in the LifeSpring wikipedia entry. When I brought that up, and later on other similarities to Landmark and EST in general, all she said was "Summit has nothing to do with those groups" and I had no hard proof to back it up. (Eventually, once she'd been in it for a while, she admitted to me that she was later told by the owners of Summit that they bought the regional rights to LifeSpring after it dissolved.)

So its up to people like you, who've gone through Summit and are not happy with it, to help expose it. I have a general idea of what happens in Basic and Advanced, thanks to its similarities to other programs that have been exposed. I am really curious about LP, which seems o be what you have the most problem with, and the portion that bothered me and changed her the most.

So please share, and help out other people who have loved ones that join Summit.

Martin,
I think I need to really stress the fact that the first 2 courses do have some benefit. The way it works is that it has you discover the underlying beliefs that you think limit you from attaining whatever it is you want in life. Then in Advanced you get to break them down.

The caveat is that this type of course is very emotionally intense and is done in a group environment. It is set up so that you bond with people in the class very quickly. Using that group setting you will do exercises that help you discover those limiting beliefs then do exercises that help you break them down. The caveat is that you can quickly find yourself doing things you don't think are right. And this is where the danger comes in.

You can actually go through Basic and Advanced and really find some benefits. Then comes LP. LP has 3 parts. First you work on yourself in making all the discoveries you previously made into action to better yourself. Second there is a community service project. Which is great.

Lastly comes the "enrollment". Here's where under the guise of a vision for the world, you will set out to "enroll" as many people as possible. In other companies that bought the rights to Lifespring, they don't focus on enrollment as much if at all. In fact the person that recommended me the program in the first place did it in one company in NY that did not stress it. She had no idea how Summit would transform it into their business model.

So to reiterate, stay away from LP, at least with Summit.

The first 2 experiences (Basic and Advanced) can grant you a circle of people that keep you on high you have never known. Coming down is so harsh that you will do many things to stay in it.

In conclusion, if taking a stab at breaking down those core beliefs that limit you sounds interesting, then do the first 2 parts. But be concious of the group think mentality.

And for anyone who has someone they care about in these trainings, I would just ask you to be patient. They will most likely come down off it after LP if they get that far. Most if not all my class has nothing to do with the program anymore.

Hope this post helps.

jsmiami:

Before you attended these trainings were you required to sign a waiver regarding the limiting of liability?

Are the trainers licensed or board certified as mental health professionals?

What educational requirements exist for trainers and how are they accountable?

Before you attended these trainings were you required to sign a waiver regarding the limiting of liability?

--> Of course. The company has been sued quite a few times. They limit their liability with various documents.

Are the trainers licensed or board certified as mental health professionals?

--> As far as I know the trainers go through some sort of certification from other trainers but are not mental health professionals. I believe they receive some minimal training to be sensitive to people with severe mental issues in case they have an episode during a training.

In fact, I have a friend that went through the program who was all about the program, recruiting people left and right. When his brother went through it, his brother had a psychotic episode and a breakdown. The company did not handle it responsibly assuming no liability at first. Since then he has wanted nothing to do with them.

I actually acted as a facillitator in one of the trainings. Once you graduate from LP you can act as a sort of assistant in the next trainings. Since these classes are usually quite a few people, they try to add a personal touch by assigning small group leaders. This is actually a good approach. As a small group leader, I was given some very minimal (one page to read) on how to spot a psychotic episode and how to proceed.

I should say that certain people with mental illness are not allowed to participate in the program. Given the intensity of the courses I could see how someone with a history of mental illness that did make it through the screening, could lose it.


What educational requirements exist for trainers and how are they accountable?

--> Like I said, to my knowledge, trainers go through several trainer's workshops to become certified. I suspect that they have some aspect of mental health in these but I couldn't tell you with great detail.
As far as accountability, well keep this in mind: Summit contracts them to come in and give the training. There are several trainers and they rotatte them each session so the trainer you had in one course won't necessarily be there for the next one.

They are paid handsomely for their services and as soon as the training is over they are off. They leave immediately to prevent any emotional attachment, so they say.

You can't contact them directly. They act as facillitators to the process and once they are done they are out of there.

jsmiami:

You say, "certain people with mental illness are not allowed to participate in the program. Given the intensity of the courses I could see how someone with a history of mental illness that did make it through the screening, could lose it."

Who is qualified at Summit to make that assessment?

Please explain how the "screening" process is accomplished.

Who is qualified at Summit to make that assessment?

--> The owners of the company and the trainer make the assesment.

Please explain how the "screening" process is accomplished.

--> It was a while ago but if I remember correctly, if the person was in some sort of therapy they had to get permission from their therapist. If they were taking any medication for mental illness, they would most likely not be let into the trainings.

jsmiami:

Why would the owner or trainer be qualified to make an assessment regarding "mental illness"?

How are they qualified?

For someone that is publicly defending Summit you seem pretty sketchy about how they screen people.

But thanks for making it known on this thread that Summit has a waiver to avoid taking meaningful responsibility for its programs.

And also thanks for explaining that there is no degree and specific licensing required for the trainers.

Apparently, they are qualified because Summit says so.

You have drawn a picture of a potentially unsafe group with no meaningful accountability.

Thankfully, there are far safer alternatives through helping professionals, such as licensed marriage and family therapists, clinical psychologists, continuing education and facilitated support groups through local community services.

And none of these alternatives would typically avoid accountability through waivers. If something goes wrong can and should be held accountable.

Why would anyone agree to waive their right to have recourse regarding such a program?

Thanks for letting us know that Summit has apparently done this because they have been sued by participants.

These are really big red flags in my opinion.