Re: Mankind project / James Arthur Ray - sweatlodge deaths
Posted by:
floatingfreebear
()
Date: November 04, 2009 10:57AM
Quote
The Anticult
floatingfreebear:
And the James Ray bogus use of the sweatlodge, and the MKP bogus use of the fake sweatlodge are LINKED. James Ray probably attended MKP, or a variant, and thought..."hey I like this sweatbox torture test faux Shaman Warrior scam".
James Ray probably got the idea for using plastic and non-breathable materials from MKP.
Here is a letter that was put out to the public by MKP on the Spiritual Warrior incident and on MKP's sweat lodges.
FloatingFreeBear
==========================================
The ManKind Project
October 14, 2009
We at the ManKind Project are saddened and shocked by the news of the 19 people who were injured and two who lost their lives in the "sweat lodge" ceremony at the recent James Arthur Ray retreat in Prescott, Arizona. We extend our hearts to those who have lost loved ones in this terrible accident.
We also want to clarify that neither James Arthur Ray, nor his Spiritual Warrior Training, are in any way associated with the ManKind Project©, a men’s educational not-for-profit organization with centers in eight countries, or its New Warrior Training Adventure©. For the past 24 years the ManKind Project has safely conducted what we call "Purification and Renewal" (P&R) ceremonies at our training events. These sauna-like experiences, often called "sweat lodges," are similar to indigenous ceremonies practiced throughout the world. We have conducted thousands of these ceremonies for over 40,000 participants.
Archaeological evidence of sweat lodges has been discovered on every continent and many cultural traditions mention them in their oral and written histories. Unfortunately, most of these indigenous traditions from around the world have been lost. Our ceremony was specifically written and adapted for non-native participants from a well known ceremony known as the "All-Nations" tradition, and is fundamentally distinct from Native American practice in content, context, and intensity. Our P&R is a safe, rewarding experience for men from any spiritual tradition.
The ManKind Project acknowledges the inherent risk of being inside a relatively confined space with heat and steam and takes extraordinary precautions to insure the safety of our participants:
We require those who lead our ceremonies to complete a rigorous recognition process, insuring that they understand what is required to make the process safe and rewarding for all who participate.
We discourage participation by those with asthma, high blood pressure, or heart conditions.
Each man is required to complete a medical history which is reviewed by a licensed physician.
Every ceremony is attended by a man with extensive medical experience who is certified in CPR, and oxygen and a first aid kit are at the ready.
There is no fasting prior to the sweat, and participants are fully hydrated before beginning.
Men are given specific instruction on how to handle the heat in the lodge, and we make it clear that the P&R is not an 'endurance' contest.
The participants spend an hour or less in the lodge, and the door of the structure is opened at least three times during the experience to reduce the effects of the heat and to verbally check in with every man.
No man is required to participate, and men are encouraged to leave if they begin to feel light headed or overheated.
These safety precautions have enabled us to create safe, beneficial experiences for over 20 years. For more information or to schedule an interview [...]
[Moderator note: Do not post contact information per the rules you agreed to before posting here]
Again, we extend our condolences to those who have been impacted by this tragedy, and trust that James Arthur Ray held good intentions for the safety of those participating.
Sincerely,
Carl Griesser, Executive Director
George Daranyi, Chairman
The ManKind Project
=========================================
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2009 11:09AM by rrmoderator.
Re: Mankind project / James Arthur Ray - sweatlodge deaths
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: November 04, 2009 11:14AM
To whom it may concern:
Note that in the post above by an MKP supporter the MKP official statement reads "Our ceremony was specifically written and adapted for non-native participants from a well known ceremony known as the "All-Nations" tradition, and is fundamentally distinct from Native American practice."
This means that MKP "sweat lodge" would fall within what Native American officials have called the "bastardization" of their legitimate traditions.
Note that in the post above by an MKP supporter the MKP official statement reads "Our ceremony was specifically written and adapted for non-native participants from a well known ceremony known as the "All-Nations" tradition, and is fundamentally distinct from Native American practice."
This means that MKP "sweat lodge" would fall within what Native American officials have called the "bastardization" of their legitimate traditions.
Re: Mankind project / James Arthur Ray - sweatlodge deaths
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 04, 2009 12:09PM
And if anyone buys that statement by Carl Griesser and George Daranyi from MKP, then perhaps you are interested in buying shares in a bridge in Brooklyn.
There is no "All-Nations" tradition, that is meaningless. They are just saying that, so Native Americans don't criticize Mankind Project for ripping off their culture for profit.
What they did, is just take some parts of the sweatlodge, and combine it with their own LGAT systems.
Sounds like it started in about 1985, which was the time when Yuppies were reading Robert Bly, and finding their "inner wildman" and putting on wolf skins, dancing around fires, and trying to find themselves, and getting charged thousands of dollars.
You notice that MKP says their sweatlodges are differeng in "content, context, and intensity" than Native Americans. That part is true.
The content is the new agey Yuppie find your inner wildman from the 1980's.
The context is an LGAT seminar system.
The intensity, part of the LGAT is extreme, and meant to break people down.
The MKP bosses are pretty tricky in their language, but not tricky enough.
Notice they also say that it was "given" from a Native American, then they say its not Native American.
Hopefully, the Native American activists will give MKP a dose of cold water on their stones.
There is no "All-Nations" tradition, that is meaningless. They are just saying that, so Native Americans don't criticize Mankind Project for ripping off their culture for profit.
What they did, is just take some parts of the sweatlodge, and combine it with their own LGAT systems.
Sounds like it started in about 1985, which was the time when Yuppies were reading Robert Bly, and finding their "inner wildman" and putting on wolf skins, dancing around fires, and trying to find themselves, and getting charged thousands of dollars.
You notice that MKP says their sweatlodges are differeng in "content, context, and intensity" than Native Americans. That part is true.
The content is the new agey Yuppie find your inner wildman from the 1980's.
The context is an LGAT seminar system.
The intensity, part of the LGAT is extreme, and meant to break people down.
The MKP bosses are pretty tricky in their language, but not tricky enough.
Notice they also say that it was "given" from a Native American, then they say its not Native American.
Hopefully, the Native American activists will give MKP a dose of cold water on their stones.
Quote
floatingfreebear
==========================================
The ManKind Project
October 14, 2009
....For the past 24 years the ManKind Project has safely conducted what we call "Purification and Renewal" (P&R) ceremonies at our training events. These sauna-like experiences, often called "sweat lodges," are similar to indigenous ceremonies practiced throughout the world. We have conducted thousands of these ceremonies for over 40,000 participants.
Archaeological evidence of sweat lodges has been discovered on every continent and many cultural traditions mention them in their oral and written histories. Unfortunately, most of these indigenous traditions from around the world have been lost. Our ceremony was specifically written and adapted for non-native participants from a well known ceremony known as the "All-Nations" tradition, and is fundamentally distinct from Native American practice in content, context, and intensity. ....
Carl Griesser, Executive Director
George Daranyi, Chairman
The ManKind Project
Re: Mankind project / James Arthur Ray - sweatlodge deaths
Posted by:
floatingfreebear
()
Date: November 04, 2009 12:50PM
Hello Everyone,
the next two things i wish to research are:
1. safety factors of mkp sweats.
2. gifting of the p&r (sweat lodge) to mkp.
specifically, i want to find out what are the current safety policies that are occurring in all the centers.
I also want to discern the history of how the p&r was gifted to mkp.
thank you.
floatingfreebear
fyi. the arm of mkp that has the responsibility of the sweat lodges is known as lks (lodge keeper's society).
===============================================
the next two things i wish to research are:
1. safety factors of mkp sweats.
2. gifting of the p&r (sweat lodge) to mkp.
specifically, i want to find out what are the current safety policies that are occurring in all the centers.
I also want to discern the history of how the p&r was gifted to mkp.
thank you.
floatingfreebear
fyi. the arm of mkp that has the responsibility of the sweat lodges is known as lks (lodge keeper's society).
===============================================
Quote
rrmoderator
To whom it may concern:
Note that in the post above by an MKP supporter the MKP official statement reads "Our ceremony was specifically written and adapted for non-native participants from a well known ceremony known as the "All-Nations" tradition, and is fundamentally distinct from Native American practice."
This means that MKP "sweat lodge" would fall within what Native American officials have called the "bastardization" of their legitimate traditions.
Re: Mankind project / James Arthur Ray - sweatlodge
Posted by:
floatingfreebear
()
Date: November 04, 2009 05:10PM
Cultural Sweat Lodges - Part 1
"[cyberbohemia.com];
In one form or another, the sweat bath pervaded cultures from the Alaskan Eskimo south into the land of the Mayans. The purpose, in most cases, went beyond getting the body clean. The sweat bath provided a cure for illness, revitalization for aching muscles, and a sense of racial identity. A Navajo who fought in World War II told me he came back for a sweat bath "to rid himself of evil accumulated during war."
[www.chicagosweatlodge.com]
THE LODGE • WORLD
The claims of origin of the sweat lodge are as many as there are tribal cultures. One general version is that the Creator gave the lodge to the people as a way to directly pray or talk with the Creator.
SWEATLODGE • AMERICAS
In one form or another, the sweat bath pervaded cultures from the Alaskan Eskimo south into the land of the Mayans
SAUNA • FINNISH
Most researchers agree that Finns always had some form of sweat bath, as did most peoples around the world. It was the simplest and most efficient way to satisfy people's innate need to keep clean.
HAMMAM • ISLAMIC
Muhammad believed that the heat of the hammam (which in Arabic means "spreader of warmth") enhanced fertility, and the followers of the faith should multiply. Until the hammam caught Muhammad's fancy, the Arabs used only cold water and never bathed in tubs, which was considered as bathing in one's own filth.
HAN ZAO • CHINESE
Bathing in fresh or salt water, steam baths (zheng qi zao) or sweat baths (han zao), whether for spiritual or physical cleansing, are and have been common practices among Chinese peoples. Ritual baths were originated by ancient Buddhists and the practice spread from India to Tibet to Turkestan to Japan and to China.
BANIA • RUSSIAN
One of the earliest descriptions of the bania comes from the Russian Primary Chronicle of 1113, in describing the missionary work of the apostle, Andreas: 'l saw the land of the Slavs, and while I was among them, I noticed their wooden bath-houses. They warm them to extreme heat, then undress, and after anointing themselves with tallow, take young reeds and lash their bodies. They actually lash themselves without mercy. Then they drench themselves with cold water, and thus are revived. They think nothing of doing this every day and actually inflict such voluntary torture upon themselves. They make of the act not a mere washing but a veritable torment in the interest of health and longevity.' No sweat bath in the world has been as well documented as the Russian bath.
MUSHI-BURO • JAPANESE
“To heat the mushi-buro, attendants place green pine wood in the center of the floor. The wood is ignited and allowed to burn as long as the bather desires. The fire is extinguished and rubble is raked out. Then, with the smoke purged, a straw mat is sprinkled with salt water and placed on the floor as a place to sit. After sitting for a while, the whole body becomes warm and jewel-like, as the sweat seeps out. It is a kind of steam bath. The mushi-buro has a beneficial effect on injury and skin diseases, stomach problems, arthritis and rheumatism.”
"[cyberbohemia.com];
In one form or another, the sweat bath pervaded cultures from the Alaskan Eskimo south into the land of the Mayans. The purpose, in most cases, went beyond getting the body clean. The sweat bath provided a cure for illness, revitalization for aching muscles, and a sense of racial identity. A Navajo who fought in World War II told me he came back for a sweat bath "to rid himself of evil accumulated during war."
[www.chicagosweatlodge.com]
THE LODGE • WORLD
The claims of origin of the sweat lodge are as many as there are tribal cultures. One general version is that the Creator gave the lodge to the people as a way to directly pray or talk with the Creator.
SWEATLODGE • AMERICAS
In one form or another, the sweat bath pervaded cultures from the Alaskan Eskimo south into the land of the Mayans
SAUNA • FINNISH
Most researchers agree that Finns always had some form of sweat bath, as did most peoples around the world. It was the simplest and most efficient way to satisfy people's innate need to keep clean.
HAMMAM • ISLAMIC
Muhammad believed that the heat of the hammam (which in Arabic means "spreader of warmth") enhanced fertility, and the followers of the faith should multiply. Until the hammam caught Muhammad's fancy, the Arabs used only cold water and never bathed in tubs, which was considered as bathing in one's own filth.
HAN ZAO • CHINESE
Bathing in fresh or salt water, steam baths (zheng qi zao) or sweat baths (han zao), whether for spiritual or physical cleansing, are and have been common practices among Chinese peoples. Ritual baths were originated by ancient Buddhists and the practice spread from India to Tibet to Turkestan to Japan and to China.
BANIA • RUSSIAN
One of the earliest descriptions of the bania comes from the Russian Primary Chronicle of 1113, in describing the missionary work of the apostle, Andreas: 'l saw the land of the Slavs, and while I was among them, I noticed their wooden bath-houses. They warm them to extreme heat, then undress, and after anointing themselves with tallow, take young reeds and lash their bodies. They actually lash themselves without mercy. Then they drench themselves with cold water, and thus are revived. They think nothing of doing this every day and actually inflict such voluntary torture upon themselves. They make of the act not a mere washing but a veritable torment in the interest of health and longevity.' No sweat bath in the world has been as well documented as the Russian bath.
MUSHI-BURO • JAPANESE
“To heat the mushi-buro, attendants place green pine wood in the center of the floor. The wood is ignited and allowed to burn as long as the bather desires. The fire is extinguished and rubble is raked out. Then, with the smoke purged, a straw mat is sprinkled with salt water and placed on the floor as a place to sit. After sitting for a while, the whole body becomes warm and jewel-like, as the sweat seeps out. It is a kind of steam bath. The mushi-buro has a beneficial effect on injury and skin diseases, stomach problems, arthritis and rheumatism.”
Re: Mankind project / James Arthur Ray - sweatlodge deaths
Posted by:
floatingfreebear
()
Date: November 04, 2009 05:26PM
Cultural Sweat Lodges - Part 2
"[cyberbohemia.com];
TEMESCAL • MEXICAN
When the Spaniards arrived in the 16th century, they found spirited use of the sweat house among scattered Mayan tribes and their new rulers, the Aztecs. The most common name for the sweat house is temescal, an Aztec name from teme, to bathe, and calli, house. The largest Mayan dictionary, compiled shortly after the Conquest, gives the word for sweat bath as Zumpul-che, "a bath used to cast out disease in their bodies."
ALLUS BOTHAN • IRISH
In Ireland, a primitive kind of sweat bath (allus bothan) that resembled a casual mound of sod and stone, unlike bath houses on the continent, quietly cleansed the wearers of green. We can only speculate on how they began. Sweat houses were common in Ireland until 50 years ago. It was heated by fires of turf; when sufficiently hot the coals and ashes were removed, and some cool thing such as sods, rushes or stones put in for the person to stand upon. As many as six or eight men stripped off and went in, then all openings were closed except what afforded a little ventilation. When they could suffer the heat no longer they came out and plunged into a pool of water within a yard or two of the sweat house.
HOT HUT • HAWAII
The oldest know medical document, the Ayurveda, appeared in Sanskrit in 568 BC and considered sweating so important to health that it prescribed the sweat bath and thirteen other methods of inducing sweat.
FIRE LODGE • HINDU
A bather absorbing the heat of a sweat bath was seen as re-enacting Creation, merging body and fire. Hindu mythology has several stories regarding the human absorption of heat. Pajapati created the world by heating himself to an extreme temperature through asceticism. Consequently, Hindu ascetics meditate near fire to achieve inner heat. Those who reach a communion with the Spirit are said to "burn." Those who perform miracles are called sahib-jocks, which means to "boil" from inner heat.
VAPOR LODGE • OMAHA
Many cultures discovered that rocks could absorb the power of fire, and thereby acquired spiritual significance. The Omaha Indians referred to the rocks as Grandfather, symbol of earthly endurance, and moved them from the fire into the revered sweatlodge. When water was splashed over them, the vapor produced became another medium for the transfer of heat and another object of worship. The Finns named this vapor loyly, spirit of life. The Fox, another American Indian tribe, believed that Manitou, a friendly spirit, dwelled inside the rocks and was released through the vapor to penetrate the skins of the bathers and drive out sickness.
===============================================================================
ok, so i've done a bit a research and found some examples in which we can see that the "sweat lodge" is a part of many
cultures.
===============================================================================
years ago, i attended a men's conference and a Native man shared wisdom in story-telling. aftwarwards a young
man asked "where else can i learn of these things?" the Native man had an embarrassed look on this face and said to
the young man "you can look at your own culture, pre-Christianity, and you'll find the same things".
so, logically, MKP could have examined non-Native culture and drawn from that to design/execute its "sweats".
however, it appears that, yes, much of what has been done was "gifted" to the organization and the organization has seen fit
to mold as it feels is apropriate (as far as i can tell).
i can certainly understand how people might view this as "cultural appropriation". the same can be said of minority people & rap music
in regards to rapper EMINEM.
should MKP let go of it's "molded" sweat? should it re-design it so that it is something more european-based and totally leave out any
Native American expressions? I don't have any answers on this.
=============================================
my main concern, that has been brought up here, is safety "in MKP sweats". And I am researching into that.
i'll share with you what I find out.
floatingfreebear
"[cyberbohemia.com];
TEMESCAL • MEXICAN
When the Spaniards arrived in the 16th century, they found spirited use of the sweat house among scattered Mayan tribes and their new rulers, the Aztecs. The most common name for the sweat house is temescal, an Aztec name from teme, to bathe, and calli, house. The largest Mayan dictionary, compiled shortly after the Conquest, gives the word for sweat bath as Zumpul-che, "a bath used to cast out disease in their bodies."
ALLUS BOTHAN • IRISH
In Ireland, a primitive kind of sweat bath (allus bothan) that resembled a casual mound of sod and stone, unlike bath houses on the continent, quietly cleansed the wearers of green. We can only speculate on how they began. Sweat houses were common in Ireland until 50 years ago. It was heated by fires of turf; when sufficiently hot the coals and ashes were removed, and some cool thing such as sods, rushes or stones put in for the person to stand upon. As many as six or eight men stripped off and went in, then all openings were closed except what afforded a little ventilation. When they could suffer the heat no longer they came out and plunged into a pool of water within a yard or two of the sweat house.
HOT HUT • HAWAII
The oldest know medical document, the Ayurveda, appeared in Sanskrit in 568 BC and considered sweating so important to health that it prescribed the sweat bath and thirteen other methods of inducing sweat.
FIRE LODGE • HINDU
A bather absorbing the heat of a sweat bath was seen as re-enacting Creation, merging body and fire. Hindu mythology has several stories regarding the human absorption of heat. Pajapati created the world by heating himself to an extreme temperature through asceticism. Consequently, Hindu ascetics meditate near fire to achieve inner heat. Those who reach a communion with the Spirit are said to "burn." Those who perform miracles are called sahib-jocks, which means to "boil" from inner heat.
VAPOR LODGE • OMAHA
Many cultures discovered that rocks could absorb the power of fire, and thereby acquired spiritual significance. The Omaha Indians referred to the rocks as Grandfather, symbol of earthly endurance, and moved them from the fire into the revered sweatlodge. When water was splashed over them, the vapor produced became another medium for the transfer of heat and another object of worship. The Finns named this vapor loyly, spirit of life. The Fox, another American Indian tribe, believed that Manitou, a friendly spirit, dwelled inside the rocks and was released through the vapor to penetrate the skins of the bathers and drive out sickness.
===============================================================================
ok, so i've done a bit a research and found some examples in which we can see that the "sweat lodge" is a part of many
cultures.
===============================================================================
years ago, i attended a men's conference and a Native man shared wisdom in story-telling. aftwarwards a young
man asked "where else can i learn of these things?" the Native man had an embarrassed look on this face and said to
the young man "you can look at your own culture, pre-Christianity, and you'll find the same things".
so, logically, MKP could have examined non-Native culture and drawn from that to design/execute its "sweats".
however, it appears that, yes, much of what has been done was "gifted" to the organization and the organization has seen fit
to mold as it feels is apropriate (as far as i can tell).
i can certainly understand how people might view this as "cultural appropriation". the same can be said of minority people & rap music
in regards to rapper EMINEM.
should MKP let go of it's "molded" sweat? should it re-design it so that it is something more european-based and totally leave out any
Native American expressions? I don't have any answers on this.
=============================================
my main concern, that has been brought up here, is safety "in MKP sweats". And I am researching into that.
i'll share with you what I find out.
floatingfreebear
Re: Mankind project
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: November 04, 2009 10:36PM
floatingfreebear:
You are going off topic.
The topic here is not the history of sweat lodges.
The topic is James Arthur Ray, MKP parallels and the so-called "sweat lodge" deaths in Sedona.
Like James Arthur Ray the MKP "sweat lodge" has no tribal sanction by Native Americans nor any meaningful official legitimacy, it rather represents the usurpation or "bastardization" of Native American religion and traditional observance.
BTW The link you offer correctly uses the word "sauna." And the company "Chicago sweat-lodge" (the managing partner is Russian) that operates the Web site, is hardly an authentic Native American source of information. Instead, this company reflects yet another example of the commercialization and marketing of Native American tradition to make money, which is exactly what upsets the organized Native American community.
You are going off topic.
The topic here is not the history of sweat lodges.
The topic is James Arthur Ray, MKP parallels and the so-called "sweat lodge" deaths in Sedona.
Like James Arthur Ray the MKP "sweat lodge" has no tribal sanction by Native Americans nor any meaningful official legitimacy, it rather represents the usurpation or "bastardization" of Native American religion and traditional observance.
BTW The link you offer correctly uses the word "sauna." And the company "Chicago sweat-lodge" (the managing partner is Russian) that operates the Web site, is hardly an authentic Native American source of information. Instead, this company reflects yet another example of the commercialization and marketing of Native American tradition to make money, which is exactly what upsets the organized Native American community.
Re: Mankind project
Posted by:
floatingfreebear
()
Date: November 04, 2009 11:56PM
good morning mr. ross (and everyone else),
i hope today finds you well.
yes, i understand. i wanted to share from my research that a sweat (or sauna) is not something that is owned by Native Americans
and that many cultures have sweats as their background and that mkp could have chosen a non-Native American sweat. mkp did not.
yes i am in agreement that the sweat being done by mkp has its origins from Native sweats.
i am still researching as to the official sanctioning of the mkp sweat from Natives.
since safety is a concern that was brought up here and of course since deaths occurred at the sweat in sedona, i am researching
the current safety requirements of mkp sweats.
thank you.
floatingfreebear
i hope today finds you well.
yes, i understand. i wanted to share from my research that a sweat (or sauna) is not something that is owned by Native Americans
and that many cultures have sweats as their background and that mkp could have chosen a non-Native American sweat. mkp did not.
yes i am in agreement that the sweat being done by mkp has its origins from Native sweats.
i am still researching as to the official sanctioning of the mkp sweat from Natives.
since safety is a concern that was brought up here and of course since deaths occurred at the sweat in sedona, i am researching
the current safety requirements of mkp sweats.
thank you.
floatingfreebear
Quote
rrmoderator
floatingfreebear:
You are going off topic.
The topic here is not the history of sweat lodges.
The topic is James Arthur Ray, MKP parallels and the so-called "sweat lodge" deaths in Sedona.
Like James Arthur Ray the MKP "sweat lodge" has no tribal sanction by Native Americans nor any meaningful official legitimacy, it rather represents the usurpation or "bastardization" of Native American religion and traditional observance.
BTW The link you offer correctly uses the word "sauna." And the company "Chicago sweat-lodge" (the managing partner is Russian) that operates the Web site, is hardly an authentic Native American source of information. Instead, this company reflects yet another example of the commercialization and marketing of Native American tradition to make money, which is exactly what upsets the organized Native American community.
Re: Mankind project / James Arthur Ray - sweatlodge deaths
Posted by:
floatingfreebear
()
Date: November 05, 2009 12:06AM
Good Morning everyone,
checking in on mkp sweat safety requirements. i'm making contact with approximately 30 mkp centers & questioning whether they have within 25 feet of theiir sweat lodge (at all times during the sweat, i forgot to ask about water):
1. oxygen tank
2. first aid medical kit
3. on-site medical man
here are the responses I've received so far (and I've removed any names & locations):
=======================
The answer to all three is YES. Safety is our number one priority. The Med Kit and Oxygen
and Medic are all ALWAYS on site the NWTA Sweats.
=======================
Hi
The answer is yes to all 3 questions
=======================
yes to all three questions. Also, our local guys constantly check in with the participants to make sure they are doing OK and encourage someone to get out and cool off if they need to. Something I noticed on the pics of the Sedona sweat was that they had plastic tarps over the framework. We only use wooden supports and cloth coverings, allowing the lodge to breathe and making sure no toxic gases come off the framework.
=======================
Yes to all three.
=======================
...Anything that I would offer would be anecdotal. I imagine that all centers will review their safety procedures in light of the recent tragedy.
Other issues include fasting before sweats, length of sweat, availability of drinking water and encouragement to take care of yourself by leaving.
=======================
these are the responses I've received so far. of course, i can't speak to bad experiences that have happened to others.
i'll be in touch
floatingfreebear
checking in on mkp sweat safety requirements. i'm making contact with approximately 30 mkp centers & questioning whether they have within 25 feet of theiir sweat lodge (at all times during the sweat, i forgot to ask about water):
1. oxygen tank
2. first aid medical kit
3. on-site medical man
here are the responses I've received so far (and I've removed any names & locations):
=======================
The answer to all three is YES. Safety is our number one priority. The Med Kit and Oxygen
and Medic are all ALWAYS on site the NWTA Sweats.
=======================
Hi
The answer is yes to all 3 questions
=======================
yes to all three questions. Also, our local guys constantly check in with the participants to make sure they are doing OK and encourage someone to get out and cool off if they need to. Something I noticed on the pics of the Sedona sweat was that they had plastic tarps over the framework. We only use wooden supports and cloth coverings, allowing the lodge to breathe and making sure no toxic gases come off the framework.
=======================
Yes to all three.
=======================
...Anything that I would offer would be anecdotal. I imagine that all centers will review their safety procedures in light of the recent tragedy.
Other issues include fasting before sweats, length of sweat, availability of drinking water and encouragement to take care of yourself by leaving.
=======================
these are the responses I've received so far. of course, i can't speak to bad experiences that have happened to others.
i'll be in touch
floatingfreebear
Re: Mankind project
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: November 05, 2009 12:21AM
floatingfreebear:
There is no such official sanction by Native American tribal authority for any of the phony "sweat lodges" being hyped and sold by for-profit companies or groups like MKP.
Again, all the source you cited/linked demonstrates is the commercialization of so-called "sweat lodges" and nothing else.
Please stay on topic.
There is no such official sanction by Native American tribal authority for any of the phony "sweat lodges" being hyped and sold by for-profit companies or groups like MKP.
Again, all the source you cited/linked demonstrates is the commercialization of so-called "sweat lodges" and nothing else.
Please stay on topic.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.