Does anybody have specific information to help ... deconstruct... the environment and processes that manipulate emotions in the trainings? I know this is difficult to anwer because of all the 'agreements' to keep these things secret, but the few details I've found on the site so far have been the most helpful.

I have read the articles about general things like controlling times, seats, toilet-access etc; I'm interested in these details plus specific processes, particularly on the advanced trainings, and other general things - like the use of music and lighting.

Personal mail on this subject also welcome.

I have already shared much on this website.

But, I have been really facing myself and what made me so emotionally ripe to be sucked into this LGAT mindset that has destroyed my life as I applied it.

Basically. I have faced how I was emotionally unhealthy to start with, and if you think about it. Anyone who attends these seminars are in the same place in various degrees of emotional health within each individual.

If a person was emotionally healthy and content in life. There would not be the need to attend this type of seminar.

So, right up front. Any person choosing to attend this type of seminar is screaming discontent in their lives emotionally.

Which is where the being ripe for emotional picking takes place.

In the beginning these companies use a very controlled emotional environment to create an experience for participants to come face to face with how belief systems are creating our problems in our lives.

Which is well known by all. We just don't realize how much our belief systems drive our lives subconsciously.

Well, these companies have down pat the ability to create an experiential experiences to reveal this to us in a powerful way.

Each company has different ways to do this. But the end result is the same.

I face my destructive belief systems in an experiential way that makes me realize how they must change. It is very clear how they are being destructive in my life as this experience showed me.

Okay, now that I have been laid wide open to the destructiveness of many of my belief systems. I am now a blank page emotionally that wants to know how to stop the destructive belief systems in me.

Okay folks this aspect of discovering this about myself is very good. But, this is also where LGAT's cross the line. Because now I am an emotional blank page to be written upon.

Here is also where the emotionally somewhat healthy get off the LGAT wagon. Those who faced some messed up belief systems choose to go to professional individual counseling where these beliefs can be addressed in a professional psychiatric manner.

Those like me who want to find the short cut, and quick fix continue on in this training.

Only difference in what is being taught in seminars is no longer tools to help you face yourself and deal with yourself emotionally.

Now its a philosophy of life that is being delivered in seminars. Now a persons belief systems are being rewritten with a different belief system.

What is this philosophy that gets written on this blank emotional page created at the start of these seminars in participants who choose to continue on?

Well, just read the many, many threads of what the results of these companies philosophies have resulted in our society.

Like Klemmer says. "RESULTS OFTEN HARSH, ALWAYS FAIR"

Well the results are to consistent, and many to ignore.

There are some articles on LGAT Forum about room set-up. Use the search at the top, right. A user named Corboy posted a good one.

Thanks - found Kopp article on room setup, excellent. Like going backstage on a bad-magic show.

RS, you are right, these companies sure are re-writing belief systems, and I really wonder how much of it is money-grabbing, how much do they actually believe 'innocently' and is there yet another agenda behind it all?

I don't agree we were all in an unhealthy place to start with, though. I only attended out of intellectual curiosity - thought it was a kind of philosophy lecture with mountain-climbing thrown in, or something like that. Maybe I wasn't perfectly psychologically healthy but I was very functional, a far cry from climbing the walls in a psych ward.

If you re-read my last post you will find this statement in it.

"Here is also where the emotionally somewhat healthy get off the LGAT wagon."

I am sorry for putting more emphasis on the other part, that this was missed by you.

I can see where my intense approach to the other aspects washed over this part where we are not in disagreement.

I will work on not making so strong of statements that my comments are comming out as blanket statements being made like you felt.

I can see how my wording made it sound as such though.

Thanks for your comments on my post though.

No need to apologise or change your ways.

I agree the state of a persons mental health may influence whether they get involved or how long they stay involved, but I think there are many more factors. For example:

1. Money - wealthy people seem to get more positive feedback and less harrassment, and so are less likely to want to get out.

2. Friends and family involved - if your friends and family stay out its easier for you to get out, they provide a realistic frame of reference - and vice versa if lots of your friends and family are involved.

3. Circumstance - if something requiring a decision comes up in your life and you allow it to be raised in the forum, you may be put under pressure to do something you'd rather not do (divorce, change jobs, whatever) and this may make you want to leave - or get you kicked out.

4. Economy and sales - if the economy is in a slump and recruitment is down you'll be pressured to recruit more, and this could help raise alarm bells and get you out.

5. Circumstances on trainings - some trainings are milder or more abusive than others, seeing a particularly abusive scene could help you out.

6. Access to information - maybe you read an article or see a program about cults and have the shocking realisation that you're in one.

7. Normal differences in people e.g. some people are more susceptible to hypnosis than others


etc.

I don't want to go to extremes and say we should take no responsibility at all and there is no connection at all between underlying mental health and how we get in and how long we stay. I'm just saying there's more to it. I'm sure you know your own mind better than I do - but I'm worried there is some lingering programming from whichever courses you did, making you blame yourself too much and make yourself 'responsible' rather than looking at external circumstances as well.

I know my brain is still mixed up and I think the 'training' without realising it sometimes. And maybe now I'm going to another extreme, I think I messed up by spending so long doubting myself instead of the training, so now I don't want to doubt myself anymore.

If you don't mind me asking, how did you get out?

Quote
SaneAgain
I know my brain is still mixed up and I think the 'training' without realising it sometimes. And maybe now I'm going to another extreme, I think I messed up by spending so long doubting myself instead of the training, so now I don't want to doubt myself anymore.

Saneagain, what training were you interested in specifically? The processes are similar for all, but they do vary. I'd also like to ask, if I may, which training were you affiliated with? Unfortunately, your experience is common among ex-graduates of LGAT's.

It is difficult to sort out what was me, and what was and is Klemmer and this messed up philosphy based on the movie "The Secret".

I am getting some realy professional help on this though. Hard not to want to see the federal government come in and shut down the whole LGAT arena of business in our nation.

But, I do have to keep in mind that I let myself be led down this brainwashng from Klemmer by choosing into it.

I am responsible, and I believe Klemmer is accountable.

So? Hows that work?

Still sorting it out.

The training is called Quest

[quest-seminars.co.za]


Quest is the basic training, there's an intensive advanced training called inquest, which to me is what is most dangerous. Also other evening courses, like intention quest, relationship quest, power quest etc. And then there's a kiddies quest, quest for children.

Processes on basic quest:
- arc (circle of trust / personal contact indicated by number of fingers shown)
- matchstick game
- tarzan / marylou (dress up and dance, women do tarzan men do mary lou)
- black-white game
- dyad (not parent-child. Done with assistant who is said to know what you really want and may not leave room till you tell them what you want, and get it right)
- homework on parents (write down things about your relationship and share next day)
- dancing
- closed-eye guided visualization, sometimes with music
- lecture/conversation much like landmark; same room layout, same idealogy and jargon
- buddy system (person sitting next to you is buddy, you must be available to support them throughout quest)