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rrmoderator
You seem to focusing more on the value of subjective "experience," rather than research and facts.
Well, yes, when I am trying to understand a person's experience, it helps me to probe for clarification on what they mean when they say 'xyz'. However, that is not to say I am entirely dismissing all the 'book-learnin' - I reread all three of the posts you referenced and not surprisingly, integrating that information in with everything I've read and seen here and other places has been far more illuminating than simply reading those articles in isolation. Let's just say the content in those articles has taken on new depth and relevance.
From: "Mass Marathon Training" (brainwashing9.html), as regards the danger LGAT represents:
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Yalom and Lieberman concluded by again emphasizing the crucial importance of informed consent. "Our best means of prevention," they maintained, remains the type of group the subject enters, and our best means for prevention is self-selection. If responsible public education can teach prospective encounter group members about what they can expect in terms of process, risks, and profits from a certain type of group, then and only then can they make an informed decision about membership.
In no small regard, this website and these postings and discussions have indeed helped to facilitate an informed decision. But please note, the article does [b:88921a357b]not[/b:88921a357b] say "[i:88921a357b]...an informed decision to [b:88921a357b]not[/b:88921a357b] participate.[/i:88921a357b]" leaving open the option that there maybe-might -just-possibly-could-be benefit from these experiences. That's how I read it anyway.
I have limited firsthand experience with Landmark (duped twice!) and MKP and while I find it very easy to attribute to Landmark and others of it's ilk all the disturbing nuances identified in these documents, I have a hard time finding an equivalent level of coercive persuasion in the MKP training weekend. I am [b:88921a357b]NOT[/b:88921a357b] saying coercive persuasion does not exist but I am saying the fantasy/native american/pagan honoring nature of what MKP does seems far more... well... holistic. And thus, it seems much more benign. Is that possible? Sometimes people need some type of extreme stimulus or challenge to get them to think "outside the box". Is that necessarily always bad?
Regarding:
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http://www.culteducation.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing44.html#Post%20Training
I absolutely have not experienced the high pressure tactics for recruiting, titheing and post-group participation that others speak of, and my circle of intimates that has completed MKP training has not either, so am I wrong to conclude those tactics are most likely unique to particular trainings/training locations and not endemic to the the entire endeavor? As regards other significant points in that article, if I am entering into the training fully informed (I have little doubt about what goes on since the confidentiality promise has been broken many times), fully aware of the manipulations and coercion that will be practiced and have self-selected to consider myself "worthy and capable" of withstanding the assault, isn't it possible I will gain something good without lasting harm?
Now that I have written all this... what I'm hearing seems to boil down to: [b:88921a357b]"Throw out the baby, throw out the bath water. It's all dangerous and bad."[/b:88921a357b] I do not believe this, simply based on the testimony of people I have remained near and dear to years after their training experiences (even Landmark graduates!). Nope, that's not objective, and it's far from scientific. Yes, many complaints can be made for the lack of selection criteria, inconsistent messaging and non-standard training events, but gosh darn it, I know people that have benefitted... did not lose their spouses... continued to evolve and grow intellectually and spiritually... and they say that no it wasn't the best thing nor the worst thing they ever did, but that it was a [b:88921a357b]valuable[/b:88921a357b] thing they did.