bjw --

The MacArthur Study Bible is now available in NASB and the highly prized ESV version. You have to wonder about a Bible in which the pages are 1/4 scripture and 3/4 commentary. And the fact that the word "MacArthur" on the cover is five times the size of the word "Bible".

I have no idea where JM and the other RBDs got the idea that expository preaching is the exclusive biblical model of preaching. It can be a blessing and a curse. It's a blessing when you're really digging deep into the gospels and examining what Jesus did and taught. It's excruciating when you spend 4 years going through only one of Paul's smallest epistles. Yep, 4 years. My former pastor did it.

At JM network churches you will never, ever find a Bible study in which you are just studying the Bible. You will always be required to use a study guide and/or workbook that tells you exactly how every single passage is to be interpreted. They want to make sure everyone is on board their doctrinal bus, and the Holy Spirit certainly is not the guy at the wheel. I can't remember the last time I heard anyone refer to the Holy Spirit in my former church.

Lass o' the Glen -

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but what is an "RBD"?

I think that what happened centuries ago is that when John Wycliffe and William Tyndale were translating the Bible so that "the man behind the plow" could read it HIMSELF and not have to take the word of some apostate priest - who brought people into bondage to an organized church - that along came old Calvin and Luther, et al, and presented another FALSE Gospel that ensnared those who were about to be able to read the Bible for themselves and get saved and be FREE of an organized church ran by a bunch of stinking control freaks. IMO.

What further scares me about all of the erroneous teaching that MacA has on submission to the government, is that he and his ilk will lead Christians into huge trouble if/WHEN our government puts demands on Christians that most Christians will disagree with. BUT, if ole' MacA-Daddy says to obey, way to many people will.

I'll just say it: MacA needs not only to be humbled, but he needs to be shouted down and told to repent and SHUT UP!! And what is even worse is that he is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the control freak, earthly-kingdom-building, never-called-to-be-a-pastor goons who are leaders in churches across this country. They are the blind leading the blind, and it is just part of the reason that the number 1 question that many Christian counter-cult/apologetics ministries receive is " Where can I find a decent church?" Too many are falling into the trap of the MacArthurites and being turned into unquestioning cult-like sheeple-people.

Mark

Lassotheglen,

You have an excellent grasp at what is going on in Christendom, They. Are. Taking. Over!

They have a plan and are executing it all over the world.


The last two churches I attended said they were Non denominational, in their doctrinal statements and even membership
Classes, Then, when it comes out you are not a Calvinist ( Reformed) and do not admire and love
John Macarthur (after attending for 2 or 3 years!!) as if he was the Messiah, that is the end of fellowship and the beginning of spying,
slander, smear tactics
legally actionable behaviour.

I still wonder if I should sue them, as Mark said they need to be Shut Down!!!

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Lass o' the Glen
bjw --

The MacArthur Study Bible is now available in NASB and the highly prized ESV version. You have to wonder about a Bible in which the pages are 1/4 scripture and 3/4 commentary. And the fact that the word "MacArthur" on the cover is five times the size of the word "Bible".

I'm actually quite shocked to hear this. When I was in they had just purchased all the new NASB Bibles and then the Study Bible had to be done in NKJV and it caused quite a headache for the cult back then. They must have really fought for acceptance with the NASB people.

Sorry, Mark.
RBDs = "Reformed Big Dogs".
I didn't realize I'd left out an initial reference.
It's a nickname many of my friends use to refer to the T4G and TGC guys.

Quote
gracetowho?
Lassotheglen,

You have an excellent grasp at what is going on in Christendom, They. Are. Taking. Over!

They have a plan and are executing it all over the world.


The last two churches I attended said they were Non denominational, in their doctrinal statements and even membership
Classes, Then, when it comes out you are not a Calvinist ( Reformed) and do not admire and love
John Macarthur (after attending for 2 or 3 years!!) as if he was the Messiah, that is the end of fellowship and the beginning of spying,
slander, smear tactics
legally actionable behaviour.

I still wonder if I should sue them, as Mark said they need to be Shut Down!!!

It's interesting to hear that their satellite churches are also presenting themselves as "non-denominational." That's the same way The Masters College was presented to me when I met with their recruiter. They said it was "non-denominational" and accepted Christians from all churches. It's not until after you have signed the contracts and passed the refund dates that you get hit with the unique Lordship doctrines.

When I got to the college and started hearing all the unique Lordship terminology and questioned it, they told me MacArthur believed the same way I did, just expressed it with different vocabulary.

I'm curious as to why people on here are saying that MacArthur churches are Calvinist or Reformed. MacArthur rejects Calvinist/Reformed eschatology and students and professors have had to leave the college because they refused to convert to MacArthur's viewpoint. Is it only the salvation doctrines you are referring to?

For instance, I was staying with one of MacArthur's top execs, and he came from a Reformed background that taught a Preterist view of the book of Revelations, that the Great Tribulation happened in 70 AD (with Rome as the Great Whore) and that we were currently living in the Millenium (1,000 years being only symbolic). This is actually a common view in Reformed churches.

I went with him to speak with MacArthur because he was afraid he would lose his job. MacArthur told him he could stay on provided he purchased the Study Bible (it was coming out in 2 weeks) and read MacArthur's commentary in the Book of Revelation. MacA was confident he would change his view after doing this and know the "truth."

That was back in 1997, so I don't know if MacA has changed his view and now calls himself "Reformed" or if he is just taking over Reformed churches allowing them to continue to call themselves "Reformed." If anyone knows more I would like to hear about it.

It's interesting because they converted me out of a Dutch Reformed high school, where I met up with their recruiter. One thing that attracted me to them was that they claimed they were "non-denominational." Me and my family disagreed with the Reformed theology taught by the high school and were glad that I could find a college that accepted all Christians. Little did we know it was a ploy to convert people into a cult.

John Macarthurs soteriology is reformed -
his eschatology is dispensational.

Most Calvinists are unchristlike
when you have a discussion about
TULIP, which very simply means:

God does not love the whole world so He
selected some to be saved and the rest to
be damned to hell, no one has a choice in the
matter, which is massively ironic that they
are so worried about everyone's theology
and behavior because-
THEY DON'T HAVE A CHOICE
ACCORDING TO THE CALVINIST.

So JM came up with so called lordship salvation
to bridge this little thorny gap - you gotta prove you are saved
by your works.

But John Macarthur Again is talking out
of both sides of his mouth, Because They
Don't Have A Choice To Be Good.

He's not coherent, really.

gtw?

Quote
bjw
I'm curious as to why people on here are saying that MacArthur churches are Calvinist or Reformed. MacArthur rejects Calvinist/Reformed eschatology and students and professors have had to leave the college because they refused to convert to MacArthur's viewpoint. Is it only the salvation doctrines you are referring to?

Bjw, I've been in a JM network church for a very long time. I lived through the shift from what you experienced at TMC in the 1990's to where JM's doctrines stand today. Gtw? hit on it - JM has blended Calvinist soteriology with premill./dispensational eschatology and patched it together with Lordship Salvation. What you get with this is a lot of burdened, fearful, spiritually elitist people who have no peace, no freedom and no assurance of the love and grace of God.

People in these churches are so overwhelmed with guilt over their sins (little things like overeating and poor housekeeping) that they themselves ask to be publicly disciplined for them. They view normal stumblings, doubts or emotional lows as evidence that they were never saved in the first place, so you will see people in these churches get rebaptized whenever they come out of a low point in their faith. I'm convinced that their need to maintain a spiritual high is the primary reason they chase after celebrity pastors like rock stars, gobbling up their books and hopping from one RBD conference to another.

JM network church leaders always insist that what they teach is orthodox, nondenominational and Bible-centered. When confronted with the fact that their teaching is neo-Calvinistic, they'll deny it and say it's merely genuine Christian teaching. Since they do not recognize any other doctrine as being genuinely Christian, they do not recognize their doctrine as being neo-Calvinistic. To them their doctrine is truth and all others are error. You can't convince them otherwise.

People in these churches are so overwhelmed with guilt over their sins (little things like overeating and poor housekeeping) that they themselves ask to be publicly disciplined for them. They view normal stumblings, doubts or emotional lows as evidence that they were never saved in the first place, so you will see people in these churches get rebaptized whenever they come out of a low point in their faith. I'm convinced that their need to maintain a spiritual high is the primary reason they chase after celebrity pastors like rock stars, gobbling up their books and hopping from one RBD conference to another.

JM network church leaders always insist that what they teach is orthodox, nondenominational and Bible-centered. When confronted with the fact that their teaching is neo-Calvinistic, they'll deny it and say it's merely genuine Christian teaching. Since they do not recognize any other doctrine as being genuinely Christian, they do not recognize their doctrine as being neo-Calvinistic. To them their doctrine is truth and all others are error. You can't convince them otherwise.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

...Yup, and if they have real problems, they struggle with
committing suicide -constantly.

John Macarthur is traveling over land and sea to find proselytes,
disciplining them to be twice the son of a living hell.

gtw?

JM network church leaders always insist that what they teach is orthodox, nondenominational and Bible-centered. When confronted with the fact that their teaching is neo-Calvinistic, they'll deny it and say it's merely genuine Christian teaching. Since they do not recognize any other doctrine as being genuinely Christian, they do not recognize their doctrine as being neo-Calvinistic. To them their doctrine is truth and all others are error. You can't convince them otherwise.

.....isn't that convenient? For them.

It has been most inconvenient for me.

If I *suspect* a church is Calvinist I run the other way.
When I found out...that they believe... God is SO Sovereign
SO in Control that HE MAKES PEOPLE SIN!

People do not hide what is appropriate, only what they
are ashamed of.

John Macarthur and his buddys should be ashamed of themselves
but I guess -Since God makes them Sin- they have no remorse
about their deceptive actions.

gtw?