We've mentioned it elsewhere in this thread, but the list in the MacArthur study bible that allegedly proves/disproves your salvation under the Lordship Salvation beliefs, and is what the counselors and most Lordship believers go by when evaluating how they are doing would be good to have in light of this thread, so I thought I would post it here. As a quick disclaimer, all commentary on the list is solely John MacArthur's and I do not agree with the following material or the way the Scriptures listed are interpred. So, here it is:

The Character of Genuine Saving Faith

I. Evidences That Neither Prove Nor Disprove One's Faith

Visible Morality: Matthew 19:16-21; 23:27.
Intellectual Knowledge: Romans 1:21; 2:17ff.
Religious Involvement: Matthew 25:1-10
Active Ministry: Matthew 7:21-24
Conviction of Sin: Acts 24:25
Assurance: Matthew 23
Time of Decision: Luke 8:13, 14

II. The Fruit/Proofs of Authentic/True Christianity:

Love for God: Psalm 42:1ff; 73:25; Luke 10:27; Romans 8:7
Repentance from Sin: Psalm 32:5; Proverbs 28:13; Romans 7:14ff; 2 Corinthians 7:10; 1 John 1:8-10
Genuine Humility: Psalm 51:17; Matthew 5:1-12; James 4:6, 9ff.
Devotion to God's Glory: Psalm 105:3; 115:1; Isaiah 43:7, 48:10ff.; Jeremiah 9:23, 24; 1 Corinthians 10:31
Continual Prayer: Luke 18:1; Ephesians 6:18ff.; Philippians 4:6ff.; 1 Timothy 2:1-4; James 5:16-18
Selfless Love: 1 John 2:9ff, 3:14; 4:7ff.
Separation from the World: 1 Corinthians 2:12; James 4:4ff.; 1 John 2:15-17, 5:5
Spiritual Growth: Luke 8:15; John 15:1-6; Ephesians 4:12-16
Obedient Living: Matthew 7:21; John 15:14ff.; Romans 16:26; 1 Peter 1:2, 22; 1 John 2:3-5

If List I is true of a person and List II is false, there is cause to question the validity of one's profession of faith. Yet if List II is true, then the top list will be also.

......Ok theres something I always notice with John Macarthur,
its always -Genuine, Authentic, True, Selfless, Continual, etc
Like a person born again is suddenly going to be ...perfect.

According to his own list, I dont see how John is going to make it to heaven, or anybody for that matter.
He doesnt't even make the first cut.

John Macarthur is full of Grace, said no one, ever.

gtw?

Quote
gracetowho?
If List I is true of a person and List II is false, there is cause to question the validity of one's profession of faith. Yet if List II is true, then the top list will be also.

......Ok theres something I always notice with John Macarthur,
its always -Genuine, Authentic, True, Selfless, Continual, etc
Like a person born again is suddenly going to be ...perfect.

According to his own list, I dont see how John is going to make it to heaven, or anybody for that matter.
He doesnt't even make the first cut.

John Macarthur is full of Grace, said no one, ever.

gtw?

This is the lunacy of this scam. The way it is structured they never run out of things to ding you on. "Growth" is something that never stops, and must always keep moving forward. You can never do enough to satisfy this list.

Separation from the world? Are you devoting more time to watching tv or going to amusement parks/movies than you do witnessing? No matter what someone else will always be doing more than you are, thus you are "stumbling." The cult member is lead into a depression where they are always questioning if they are doing enough. Whenever I would take a cult member to a theme park with me they would be witnessing to people in the ride lines so they wouldn't fall behind on their works.

However, when the cult itself violates these items, it is always the "end justfies the means." You see how in the third list the true Gospel must be "protected."

John MacArthur doesn't even realize he has set up an impossible standard that even he cannot possibly live up to it.

I took a look at the MacArthur Bible tonight out of curiosity. It has way more notes than there is scripture on each page. So, if one were to "study the Bible," it they would be giving more attention to the notes than the actual scripture in my opinion. She claimed to have made her decision to not welcome me into her home any more based on her study of the Bible, specifically Romans 16:17. She wasn't studying scripture at all. She was studying J.M.'s notes. The very sentence she used in her email was directly from his notes in his study Bible.

Oh, how well I know that list! It is the treadmill upon which I lived my life for over a decade. There is no resting in the peace and grace of God. There is only the grinding guilt and incessant pursuit of perfection that inevitably leads to despair when you fail. But you can never let them see you fail, so you become very good at keeping up the appearance of holiness, as the joy of life drains out of you and your soul becomes a shriveled remnant of the person you once were. Those best skilled at keeping up appearances are the quickest to judge and condemn those who cannot or will not maintain the illusion. Any flaw in your façade gets you labeled a false Christian.

In MacArthurite churches, congregants are never simply encouraged to love God, love one another, love their neighbor, pray, read the Bible, walk by faith relying on the Holy Spirit, and rest in the finished work of Christ on their behalf. You're told that your salvation depends on the purity of your doctrine. Purity of doctrine depends on accuracy of interpretation, and the only way to accurately interpret the Bible is to utilize systematic theologies, commentaries and other materials either written by MacArthur or by those whom he approves. They do teach 'once saved, always saved', but their caveat is that any Christian who does not believe exactly as they do is not 'truly saved'. The level of fear that this instills in a MacArthurite is difficult to describe, but it makes you do things that no rational person would consider, like abandoning familial relationships for the sake of 'devotion to God's glory' and 'separating from the world'.

IMO, the "flip-side" of MacA is Adrian Rodgers of "Love Worth Finding". He's in Glory, but his messages ROCK!

Hi Everyone,

Marks book recommendation brings up another paradoxical thing we came up against in these John Macarthurite
Churches.
When we explained to people why we left the church, outlining the abuse done to us and having witnessed others
being abused, we often heard some variation of this:

"Im so sorry that happened to you, and truly I believe you, but the Teaching here is So Good,
would you forgive me if I stayed?
We are really growing in the Lord!"

Now, if that doesnt make your theological head spin right off your neck and fly out the window, I dont know what does.

BTW hers a recommendation for a good solid christian-who is a non- deterministic teacher.
He runs circles around John Macarthur.

Kenneth Boa


[www.kenboa.org]

1. By finding fault with other ministries and movements, many people will (falsely) get the impression that "..well then , MacArthur must be o.k."
There are at least 2 other cults that do the same thing. One is Jesus People U.S.A. (JPUSA) in Chicago, that used to have a ministry called Cornerstone Apologetics Research Team (CART) that did research on other cults. CART even managed to get itself accepted into a counter-cult umbrella group known as Evangelical Ministries to New Religions. (EMNR still has Eric Pement - a former JPUSA member - as it's v.p. Pement still endorses JPUSA, thus ruining EMNR's credibility.)
The other cult, which has even been a source of info for 20/20 and other news/info shows is the despicable Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas. "I Can't Hear God Anymore", by ex-Trinity member, Wendy Duncan, exposed this cult for what it is. Trinity STILL provides info on other cults to the news media, but has never been exposed by the media as a cult.

2. Many cults will threaten/intimidate people into silence by various means, in an attempt to keep people silent. This happened to me ( see my report at [www.eth-s.com] ) but eventually I got rid of the fear of speaking up, and quit thinking that "they're everywhere and they're after me!!!" All by the grace of God.

3. Many cults will establish an elitist mindset in their followers ( such as the pride-inducing heresy of Calvanism/MacArthurism ) that will cause them to be dismissive of critics and criticisms, and, worse yet, will cause them to look down on those who are not part of their clique.

On those 3 points alone, MacArthurism is a freaking CULT.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One other thing: Does anybody have a photo of MacArthur's mansion that can be posted on the net?

Quote
Mark Scheiderer

On those 3 points alone, MacArthurism is a freaking CULT.

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One other thing: Does anybody have a photo of MacArthur's mansion that can be posted on the net?

I can back this up. GCC presents John MacArthur to marks as a scholar that has done reasearch across the board on all Christian denominations and has studied the Bible in depth for over 40 years, in addition to having a doctorate in theology.

I would say that at least half of MacArthur's introductory material is devoted to putting down other denominations/cults/ministries, as well as using fancy theological terms and Greek and Hebrew. It never occurs to people that he perverts Greek and Hebrew (saying "pistol" the word for believe is the same word used for obey, etc.) and that he no longer agrees with the people that gave him his college degrees.

Eventually after reading the materials against other organizations (Charismatic Chaos, etc.) you start to agree that Christianity is heading down the wrong path and needs a restoration. Then, you start to get into the salvation doctrines with books like Faith Works. This convinces you that all of Christianity is teaching a watered-down salvation and you may be "self-deceived." Once subscribing to this, you start to learn the conspiracy theories and get introduced to the counseling doctrines ("Biblical Counseling" sets up the theory that psychiatry is a tool of evolutionists to infiltrate Christianity).

You start to believe that MacArthur has all the answers and there's no way he could be wrong because he has proof using Greek and Hebrew and has studied theology extensively. It is very convincing, and the longer you are in is the more controlling it becomes.

I think the other hook about JM and his minions,
is if you have an IQ higher than 75,
it's very hard to find bible teachers that
have something intelligent to say,
which is incredibly sad, because the bible
is a treasure trove of precious gems just waiting
to be mined by even the most casual reader.

That is a Big Hook for these people.
I have heard them say " where else would I go"?
( I don't like being abused, I don't like the brutal politics and people disappearing,
I don't like being afraid of be shunned, but Who is as Gooooood a teacher?)

Is rather stay home and read my bible than go
hear some of the incoherent dribble that passes
for teaching these days in the pulpit.

John Macarthur doesn't have the corner
market on arrogance either.
He just happens to have not fallen into
adultery either, so he's supposely one of the "good guys"

It's a large case of Stockholm Syndrome.

Hello to all of you. I have posted few times on this thread basically because I am generally reading via my cell phone and I find it difficult to answer not being a terribly technological person. I have asked all of you if you would like to participate in the creation and development of an informative website in as many languages as possible which will allow all those who search to read the truth behind the Mac Arthurist sect/cult. At present I am working on the Italian side but I also have a friend who will be doing the German translation. Another friend will build the website together with me.
It is not War, It is Truth. I am so grateful to have found you guys and that all of you have written on here because I have had so many questions answered which before just left me in total and utter confusion. Until a year ago I had NO IDEA what Mac Arthurism was and what his followers/pastors did...how they acted. I could just see the effects in my family but when I googled the right words one day "Mac Arthur Sect" this blog popped up and it was God who opened my eyes. On reading so many questions were answered and though painful it has given me insight into what I can do to help prevent others from suffering like I and my family are.
So far only two of you guys are willing to help. Someone suggested that one problem might be my choice of nickname: maybe you think I'm a woman pastor or something like that coz I call myself Teacher.
Well I 'm not. I'm the daughter of missionaries and I actually teach in life - that's why I chose that nickname! I am not against women pastors if that could be interesting but I am not one myself.
I will guarantee everybody's privacy - no names will be placed online. We would work as a team. The name of the web will be: NGL (No Greater Love) - because this is what all this is about for me _ not about getting my own back at all. It's a greater Love that many cannot understand. So if one of the issues for not contacting me was my nickname I hope to have cleared this up. Whatever happens and whoever collaborates or not rest assured that I will continue for the spreading of the Truth. I hope you will all help me and work together! If you are interested please inbox me!

Peace to all of you today.