Calvin,

Thank you. I apologize to you. I have allowed my cynicism to color you and your motives. Please forgive me for leading with my cynical outlook and labeling you as just one more "TPCWOC cult leader" here to spin things. I remember when I first started posting on this forum that I too had times when my posts would not show up immediately. I should have given you the benefit of the doubt.

I have become a very cynical person over the last 20 years. And it has in many ways hurt me, others around me, and limited my ability to be used by God. Thank you for taking the time to come here, endure the back hands from myself, and yet be willing to continue. Im sure there are many more difficult questions to be asked of you. Please bear with us, here on the forum, as we continue to sort out the truth. In the past, forum members have tried to engage the former leadership in dialogue only to be met with unfulfilled promises of returned calls, vague responses, and evasive answers. Leaders at Turning Point were warned to stay off this page. They didnt want to "validate" the members of this forum by responding or posting. And yet, by "validating" us, you Calvin, have gained our hearing.

Thank you.

Quote
Calvin Bontrager
Brave heart

I DID NOT SEE HEARTLESS, VINDICTIVE EVIL PEOPLE TRYING TO DESTROY THINGS…” or make a character assassination against the people who have research and gathered accurate information and reported what they have discovered!

I think you mis understand the nature of my comment....I have been told by Leadership at WOC.... to fear this forum and the heartless, vindictive evil people trying to destroy things.... If there was ever disagreement almost every time the first question I was ask was have I been talking to Tony Diaz, Jackie or any one of u... If I had I was corrupt by deception and needed to pray for clarity...

What I am saying was in response to the fact that .... When I got on here that is not what I found. ..... It was not mention as an insult. Sorry

My mistake! I miss understood you.

Sorry

Dear Calvin,
Thank you for your long letter and I hope you understand the pain that some us went through, welcome to the Forum, its takes courage to come on here and share. I am sorry for my sarcasm but sometimes I think its one of my gifts! I was a little confused about your letter when you talked about UGM. Are you still in that ministry with Mike? What was your relationship with the power to produce guy who was in church of Marketplace Ministry at TPCWOC. Do you still talk to Mike? What is your connection with Bill Johnson and the Bethal Church in Redding. I notice your interest in power to produce and Bill Johnson church on your facebook. Was that put on there just to look hip with TP people or do you follow them. What kind of advice do you have about refunding the building fund to the donors? How can healing take place now that Mike and Jeff are no more? Do you think Mike or Jeff we ever amit that they led many away from the truth and try make things right with all the pain suffered from spiritual abuse. Thank you for trying to understand!

Starting to see just how similar all these groups really are was a TURNING POINT for me. When I saw this, I began to see through the manipulations.

Cults really do a lot of the same things -- whether they are Buddhist, Islamic, Christian, New-Age, Pagan, or even secular psychotherapy cults. Isolating members from friends and family is very common. Sometimes it's very blatant -- members living together in an isolated compound. Other times, it's more subtle. The leaders keep you so busy with group activities -- after awhile most of your friends are group members. They're the only ones you have time to see regularly.

This video "How to Become a Cult Leader," is a good satire, funny but true. (Thanks to Mark Rogow, on www.fraughtwithperil.com, the kempon hokke blog for posting the link.)

mind-control-cults.aspx

Other similarities:

--A charismatic leader who has some special truth that other religious leaders don't.

--The group has some special mission that sets it apart from other relgious groups.

--If you leave the group, your life is going to be a mess.

--Doubts about the group are always signs of weakness, arrogance, lack of faith -- some fault in you, rather than legitimate questions about the group's actions or teachings. If you disagree with anything that the group does or says, you are always wrong.

--You can heal illnesses, anxiety and depression by just being more devoted to the group and its teachings.

--Members are encouraged to reinterpret things that happened to them...to look at their lives before the group as all negative, and to look at their lives in the group as wonderful.

--Members are encouraged to think that anything good that has happened to you since you joined the group is because of the group -- and you should be very grateful to the group!

Read about different groups on this website, and you will see -- it's just so predictable what these groups say and do. It's like the group leaders all took the same course!

Having said this, would you please tell us: .

Specifically, were you ever considered "under the cover" of Turning Point Church World Outreach Center?

have you ever participated in a ceremony where you became a "spiritual child" of anyone at Turning Point World Outreach Center?

are you currently or have you ever been a "spiritual parent" to anyone in your church?

Why did you change the name of your church to "Turning Point Church - Lebanon"

go so far as to adopt the TPC logo

What was your involvement in the decision to fund Mike's move to Texas with a severance package taken from the Building fund account of TPCWOC?

What is the current status of your College: Pacific Northwest Bible College (formerly known as SOMA - Modeled after Tony Cunningham's SOMA college)?

Have you ever taught the concept of "covering" as explained in John Bevere's book, Undercover, to your leadership at Turning Point Church- Lebanon?

The recent church consultant brought in by Jeff Barnes came to the conclusion that TPC was and perhaps remains very much a cult. What is your response to this conclusion?

At the end of the day 600 people walked out of TPCWOC Marysville because of that Big White Elephant in the front row of sanctuary. That Big White Elephant as false doctrine, lies, deceit, and the theft by deception of the congregations money. Mike and Cyndi lied and used the churches money and credit cards as if they were their personal funds to use at their whim. Jeff and Kim lied and covered up for Mike and Cyndi. The Elders and Jeff Barnes allowed Mike to drag Pastor Jackie's good name through the mud as a diversion to what they had done to the Stewardship Fund by using it for everything but the purpose it was intended. But we were supposed to say and do nothing because it wasn't "Christian." We were told to leave Turning Point and keep our mouths shut about the fact that we had been deceived and defrauded. No spin can erase the spiritual abuse that so many of us spent years recovering from. If someone claims that by being in Oregon, they were not aware of what was happening here then perhaps it is because those in Oregon chose not to be aware of what Mike and Cyndi were doing.

I am sorry, I just cannot buy into the notion that the staffs of every TPC church did not know what was happening here!

D of D

There are probably a thousand questions that you have but I am not sure what good the answers would do you, however I am willing to have a sincere conversation about the issues. I will be in Marysville to visit friends this weekend and would love to meet with any of you. I would be willing to set up a time when we could all get together and talk openly. Any Takers?

this my be a bit off topic but could someone explane;
I don't know Jackie and I have never read anything that would ever question her motives or her heart. What I am confused about is how did she become a pastor in the first place, most Christian churches stick to the teachings from Paul that he did not allow a woman to teach, the office of pastor and deacons was specifically for men. Was this a policy from the Church of God in Christ COGIC, or Assembles Of God?
The only church denominations we see women in rolls of pastor are in the extremely liberal lines that typically get into questionable theology like the Episcopal church. Just wondering.

Hey I posted a thread today that did not make it to the forum again.... Did u get it?

This is an interesting view point but one that you have obviously not researched very well.... I can hardly think of one mainstream conservative group of churches that does not recognize women as ministers. Nazarene, Baptist, Missionary, Mennonite, Four Square, Assembly, Church of God, Evangelical, Lutheran, Methodist, ..... All recognize women.....

So which groups are you speaking of ...... Oh yeah, the Roman Catholics.