Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
dontask
()
Date: March 07, 2011 05:44AM
Calvin Bontrager
I appreciate your willingness to come to the forum and dialogue. To be honest, I question your motives but that is more my issue than yours. After reading your posts I would like to encourage you to reevaluate your responses or at least become clear with your motive for posting because by answering the way you are really isn’t saying anything at all. The real issue is not how you are currently doing things in Lebanon. Your response regarding Lebanon finances was fine but I suspect even the moderator would agree that TPCWOC Marysville finances are the ones being questioned, not Lebanon’s (at least at this point) and that you have no control over how they do ‘business’ there right? The issue here is WOC (as you refer to them) finances, which you cant speak freely about. What you could do is confirm or deny any funds transferred or paid to you by the mother church for services rendered or special offerings given. That would be interesting information to know, especially if it were paid out of the building fund. Although I understand you wouldn’t know which fund you were being paid out of since your transparent financial policy is not embraced in Marysville.
You claim to have an open book policy at your church, well let’s be open then-
You were asked about a ‘church split’ in Lebanon. You response was, “I can tell you we have never had a church split…so I am not sure what that is about.” Really? Seriously Calvin, just because Buddy doesn’t know to ask the right question doesn’t mean you get to play him for a fool. Your answer is a play on words. So there wasn’t a church split exactly. Maybe the better question is, What were the circumstances in which you came into relationship or became reaquanited with Pastor Mike Villamor and TPCWOC in Marysville just a few years ago? Some of my details will be off because time has passed and I wasn’t privy to all of the details but my recollection was that you had either closed the doors of your church or were in the process of doing so when you reached out to Mike for help. The details of why you closed the doors are irrelevant to me but the fact is that you had been listening to PM’s sermons and waiting for the opportunity to connect with him. You reached out to PM and TPCWOC and traveled to Marysville for a time of refuge and refueling. After spending some time with Villamor’s the idea was conceived to relaunch your church as a TPC. You gathered your team and began to recast vision, adopting TPC ministry material and brought your team up for trainings. WOC teams were sent to Lebanon to train your people, many more encounters than just an affiliation with Jeff Moors as you implied. Your new elder and deacon board names were reviewed and approved by WOC elders. You took WOC bylaws, adjusted them and adopted them as your own. In truth, you were publicly praised by PM because in essence you were creating a TPC footprint in Lebanon, a model for churches to come. This continued for quite some time with you travelling to Marysville regularly to meet with PM and I’ve heard to attend and participate in WOC staff meetings. This was not a casual partnership or encounter. The TPCWOC way was embraced and modeled to the fullest, if even for a season. You even benefited from having 2 of WOC young leaders move to Lebanon to help lead your worship and youth ministries. When UGM was dissolved, you temporarily stepped in to try to provide some resolution to finances. You also played a role in leading PNBC, making plans to either cancel it or deciding whether it was beneficial to allow students to complete the year before closing its doors. I know there was great discussion about how to deal with the students, finances and curriculum. I know this because the administrator for PNBC talks a lot, especially when frustrated. I have to say that for you to actually ask, “Who is Tony Cunningham?” is laughable. You are deep enough into this to know exactly who he is even if you’ve ever never met the man. Again, I encourage you to be real here or don’t waste my time. I wasn’t even going to post on here until I read that. The one thing I am learning to do since leaving that place is to be real- real with myself, real with others, real about what really happened.
It bothers me (again my issue) that you feel comfortable answering questions the way you did, implying you had less of a relationship with PM than you really did. Just because you only attended less than a dozen services at the actual building doesn’t mean you didn’t have an idea about what was going on behind the scenes.
So if you are still open to it, I also have a couple questions to add:
I’ve heard that you have entrusted TPC Lebanon to someone else. Are you freeing yourself up to provide leadership to WOC in the interim or as the future Senior Pastor?
What, if any, conversations have you had with Pastor Jackie Singer and what is your current stand on the embezzlement accusations?
What is your current relationship and communication with Mike Villamor?
I appreciate your willingness to come to the forum and dialogue. To be honest, I question your motives but that is more my issue than yours. After reading your posts I would like to encourage you to reevaluate your responses or at least become clear with your motive for posting because by answering the way you are really isn’t saying anything at all. The real issue is not how you are currently doing things in Lebanon. Your response regarding Lebanon finances was fine but I suspect even the moderator would agree that TPCWOC Marysville finances are the ones being questioned, not Lebanon’s (at least at this point) and that you have no control over how they do ‘business’ there right? The issue here is WOC (as you refer to them) finances, which you cant speak freely about. What you could do is confirm or deny any funds transferred or paid to you by the mother church for services rendered or special offerings given. That would be interesting information to know, especially if it were paid out of the building fund. Although I understand you wouldn’t know which fund you were being paid out of since your transparent financial policy is not embraced in Marysville.
You claim to have an open book policy at your church, well let’s be open then-
You were asked about a ‘church split’ in Lebanon. You response was, “I can tell you we have never had a church split…so I am not sure what that is about.” Really? Seriously Calvin, just because Buddy doesn’t know to ask the right question doesn’t mean you get to play him for a fool. Your answer is a play on words. So there wasn’t a church split exactly. Maybe the better question is, What were the circumstances in which you came into relationship or became reaquanited with Pastor Mike Villamor and TPCWOC in Marysville just a few years ago? Some of my details will be off because time has passed and I wasn’t privy to all of the details but my recollection was that you had either closed the doors of your church or were in the process of doing so when you reached out to Mike for help. The details of why you closed the doors are irrelevant to me but the fact is that you had been listening to PM’s sermons and waiting for the opportunity to connect with him. You reached out to PM and TPCWOC and traveled to Marysville for a time of refuge and refueling. After spending some time with Villamor’s the idea was conceived to relaunch your church as a TPC. You gathered your team and began to recast vision, adopting TPC ministry material and brought your team up for trainings. WOC teams were sent to Lebanon to train your people, many more encounters than just an affiliation with Jeff Moors as you implied. Your new elder and deacon board names were reviewed and approved by WOC elders. You took WOC bylaws, adjusted them and adopted them as your own. In truth, you were publicly praised by PM because in essence you were creating a TPC footprint in Lebanon, a model for churches to come. This continued for quite some time with you travelling to Marysville regularly to meet with PM and I’ve heard to attend and participate in WOC staff meetings. This was not a casual partnership or encounter. The TPCWOC way was embraced and modeled to the fullest, if even for a season. You even benefited from having 2 of WOC young leaders move to Lebanon to help lead your worship and youth ministries. When UGM was dissolved, you temporarily stepped in to try to provide some resolution to finances. You also played a role in leading PNBC, making plans to either cancel it or deciding whether it was beneficial to allow students to complete the year before closing its doors. I know there was great discussion about how to deal with the students, finances and curriculum. I know this because the administrator for PNBC talks a lot, especially when frustrated. I have to say that for you to actually ask, “Who is Tony Cunningham?” is laughable. You are deep enough into this to know exactly who he is even if you’ve ever never met the man. Again, I encourage you to be real here or don’t waste my time. I wasn’t even going to post on here until I read that. The one thing I am learning to do since leaving that place is to be real- real with myself, real with others, real about what really happened.
It bothers me (again my issue) that you feel comfortable answering questions the way you did, implying you had less of a relationship with PM than you really did. Just because you only attended less than a dozen services at the actual building doesn’t mean you didn’t have an idea about what was going on behind the scenes.
So if you are still open to it, I also have a couple questions to add:
I’ve heard that you have entrusted TPC Lebanon to someone else. Are you freeing yourself up to provide leadership to WOC in the interim or as the future Senior Pastor?
What, if any, conversations have you had with Pastor Jackie Singer and what is your current stand on the embezzlement accusations?
What is your current relationship and communication with Mike Villamor?
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
wherefromhere
()
Date: March 07, 2011 09:56AM
Quote
Calvin Bontrager
Oh, just a point of clarity. I have heard the name Tony Cunningham on this forum but I have never met this guy, sat under his teaching nore do I have any idea what he is about or who he is so I am not sure why he keeps being brought up....?
Who is Tony Cunningham?
Are you kidding me Calvin! Who is Tony Cunningham? Remember everything hidden will come to light. BUSTED!
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
BraveHeart
()
Date: March 07, 2011 02:50PM
Dear Calvin,
I was going to respond to you in a PM but as I try to answer your question "Who is Tony" I believe everyone needs to be on the same page. I am sure I am leaving out much detail as I'm heading to bed.
I would encourage anyone who can fill in more details to please do so.
* First of all, Tony's story goes back to when he lived in the LA area, as a spoiled punk kid, one time age ?18?
* Tony attended the Crystal Cathedral, Chuck Scullers now bankrupt empire.
* A year or two latter Tony now in Seattle, was attending some collage where he met Rose, now Rose Cunningham Tony's first wife. There are some crazy stories of how Tony in a jealous rage climes up the outside wall of an all girls dormitory [a no, no] this is one of the first examples of how coercive Tony can be.
* We (past members of Radiant Life) still have not been able to dig up any credentials for Tony to be a minister, yet his wife Rose, has the collage credits to be credentialed.
* Tony's first job as a youth pastor was in Coos Bay Oregon. It was there Tony meet Mike Villamore, Mike was a high school student there.
* Mike started following Tony and as he went to collage, Tony, kept in-touch with him even-though Tony was looking for a church in California.
* In 1997-98? Tony was hired to be a pastor for the Elk Grove Community Church. Tony soon started his Covenant teaching in small group settings and soon he had key leaders on board with this concept of leadership.
Submit to leadership = Blessings.
Other teaching that Tony implemented was the concept of Spiritual Parenting Basically the Shepherding Movement with new banner titles along with Prosperity Teachings and the Word Faith Movement.
* In 2002? Tony changed the name of Elk Grove Community Church to Radiant Life church.
* Mike would come down from time to time and Tony would fly up to spend time with Mike. Tony had grand visions to convert generic churches into the Radiant Life Franchise. And Mike picked up on that too.
* 2002-2003? The church was offered an older vacant Bowling Ally by a generous (Assemblies of God) member Mr. Buzz Oats.
* I don't recall of the top of my heard what year "SOMA" the School of Ministry Of Arts started in Sacramento. Some people from Washington and Coos Bay came to Sacramento to attend SOMA
* Some and In 2006 Tony starts making allegations about Mr. Buzz Oats.
* In 2008 in United States Court, Tony is handed a paper with his signature that shows the court and the people watching this case Tony has been lying and slandering the reputation and good will of Mr. Buzz Oats. Tony walks out of court a bitter angry arrogant man and had been in a self destruct mode ever since.
* Tony's influence are weaved deep in with SOMA North West and Mike and Staff of TPC.
* Now that Mike is out of the picture, I don't believe Mike and Tony still have any kind of relationship of friendship today, Tony has used Mike for everything he could get out of Mike, and unfortunately Mike got caught up in it.
Tony preaches an incomplete gospel message, like a Mormon preaches a Jesus, there Jesus is NOT the same Jesus of the Bible!
Tony's theology is 85% Legalism and 15% moralistic behavior. His message is void of God's law, Repentance and Trust IN Jesus! but rather if you want God to love you, then what are you doing to make God love you?
I could go on and on, with more and that is why I post this asking fro more people to start filling in the time line and filling in the details.
* To this Day, Tony has NEVER stopped his false teachings,
* Tony has NEVER said he is sorry for any of his false teachings or manipulation .
* Tony has NEVER reconciled with the people from Turning Point Church or the people from Radiant Life Church, Rlc of Laguna & Rlc of West Sacramento.
* NEVER has Tony repented for what he has done to many marriages, coercing one spouse to divorce the other!
The rotten stench from Tony's ministry fruits would make you vomit. His reputation muddy's the witness of the church.
I was going to respond to you in a PM but as I try to answer your question "Who is Tony" I believe everyone needs to be on the same page. I am sure I am leaving out much detail as I'm heading to bed.
I would encourage anyone who can fill in more details to please do so.
* First of all, Tony's story goes back to when he lived in the LA area, as a spoiled punk kid, one time age ?18?
* Tony attended the Crystal Cathedral, Chuck Scullers now bankrupt empire.
* A year or two latter Tony now in Seattle, was attending some collage where he met Rose, now Rose Cunningham Tony's first wife. There are some crazy stories of how Tony in a jealous rage climes up the outside wall of an all girls dormitory [a no, no] this is one of the first examples of how coercive Tony can be.
* We (past members of Radiant Life) still have not been able to dig up any credentials for Tony to be a minister, yet his wife Rose, has the collage credits to be credentialed.
* Tony's first job as a youth pastor was in Coos Bay Oregon. It was there Tony meet Mike Villamore, Mike was a high school student there.
* Mike started following Tony and as he went to collage, Tony, kept in-touch with him even-though Tony was looking for a church in California.
* In 1997-98? Tony was hired to be a pastor for the Elk Grove Community Church. Tony soon started his Covenant teaching in small group settings and soon he had key leaders on board with this concept of leadership.
Submit to leadership = Blessings.
Other teaching that Tony implemented was the concept of Spiritual Parenting Basically the Shepherding Movement with new banner titles along with Prosperity Teachings and the Word Faith Movement.
* In 2002? Tony changed the name of Elk Grove Community Church to Radiant Life church.
* Mike would come down from time to time and Tony would fly up to spend time with Mike. Tony had grand visions to convert generic churches into the Radiant Life Franchise. And Mike picked up on that too.
* 2002-2003? The church was offered an older vacant Bowling Ally by a generous (Assemblies of God) member Mr. Buzz Oats.
* I don't recall of the top of my heard what year "SOMA" the School of Ministry Of Arts started in Sacramento. Some people from Washington and Coos Bay came to Sacramento to attend SOMA
* Some and In 2006 Tony starts making allegations about Mr. Buzz Oats.
* In 2008 in United States Court, Tony is handed a paper with his signature that shows the court and the people watching this case Tony has been lying and slandering the reputation and good will of Mr. Buzz Oats. Tony walks out of court a bitter angry arrogant man and had been in a self destruct mode ever since.
* Tony's influence are weaved deep in with SOMA North West and Mike and Staff of TPC.
* Now that Mike is out of the picture, I don't believe Mike and Tony still have any kind of relationship of friendship today, Tony has used Mike for everything he could get out of Mike, and unfortunately Mike got caught up in it.
Tony preaches an incomplete gospel message, like a Mormon preaches a Jesus, there Jesus is NOT the same Jesus of the Bible!
Tony's theology is 85% Legalism and 15% moralistic behavior. His message is void of God's law, Repentance and Trust IN Jesus! but rather if you want God to love you, then what are you doing to make God love you?
I could go on and on, with more and that is why I post this asking fro more people to start filling in the time line and filling in the details.
* To this Day, Tony has NEVER stopped his false teachings,
* Tony has NEVER said he is sorry for any of his false teachings or manipulation .
* Tony has NEVER reconciled with the people from Turning Point Church or the people from Radiant Life Church, Rlc of Laguna & Rlc of West Sacramento.
* NEVER has Tony repented for what he has done to many marriages, coercing one spouse to divorce the other!
The rotten stench from Tony's ministry fruits would make you vomit. His reputation muddy's the witness of the church.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Daughter of Dorcas
()
Date: March 07, 2011 02:59PM
I have the same recollection of what was said about the Lebanon Oregon church at the time when it was decided to merge it into the fold of TPC. I also remember that when the folks came up from Lebanon to officially announce the - for want of a better word -- merger, that there was some sort of difference of opinion between Mike V. and the folks from Lebanon an he was none to happy.
D of D
D of D
Quote
dontask
Calvin Bontrager
I appreciate your willingness to come to the forum and dialogue. To be honest, I question your motives but that is more my issue than yours. After reading your posts I would like to encourage you to reevaluate your responses or at least become clear with your motive for posting because by answering the way you are really isn’t saying anything at all. The real issue is not how you are currently doing things in Lebanon. Your response regarding Lebanon finances was fine but I suspect even the moderator would agree that TPCWOC Marysville finances are the ones being questioned, not Lebanon’s (at least at this point) and that you have no control over how they do ‘business’ there right? The issue here is WOC (as you refer to them) finances, which you cant speak freely about. What you could do is confirm or deny any funds transferred or paid to you by the mother church for services rendered or special offerings given. That would be interesting information to know, especially if it were paid out of the building fund. Although I understand you wouldn’t know which fund you were being paid out of since your transparent financial policy is not embraced in Marysville.
You claim to have an open book policy at your church, well let’s be open then-
You were asked about a ‘church split’ in Lebanon. You response was, “I can tell you we have never had a church split…so I am not sure what that is about.” Really? Seriously Calvin, just because Buddy doesn’t know to ask the right question doesn’t mean you get to play him for a fool. Your answer is a play on words. So there wasn’t a church split exactly. Maybe the better question is, What were the circumstances in which you came into relationship or became reaquanited with Pastor Mike Villamor and TPCWOC in Marysville just a few years ago? Some of my details will be off because time has passed and I wasn’t privy to all of the details but my recollection was that you had either closed the doors of your church or were in the process of doing so when you reached out to Mike for help. The details of why you closed the doors are irrelevant to me but the fact is that you had been listening to PM’s sermons and waiting for the opportunity to connect with him. You reached out to PM and TPCWOC and traveled to Marysville for a time of refuge and refueling. After spending some time with Villamor’s the idea was conceived to relaunch your church as a TPC. You gathered your team and began to recast vision, adopting TPC ministry material and brought your team up for trainings. WOC teams were sent to Lebanon to train your people, many more encounters than just an affiliation with Jeff Moors as you implied. Your new elder and deacon board names were reviewed and approved by WOC elders. You took WOC bylaws, adjusted them and adopted them as your own. In truth, you were publicly praised by PM because in essence you were creating a TPC footprint in Lebanon, a model for churches to come. This continued for quite some time with you travelling to Marysville regularly to meet with PM and I’ve heard to attend and participate in WOC staff meetings. This was not a casual partnership or encounter. The TPCWOC way was embraced and modeled to the fullest, if even for a season. You even benefited from having 2 of WOC young leaders move to Lebanon to help lead your worship and youth ministries. When UGM was dissolved, you temporarily stepped in to try to provide some resolution to finances. You also played a role in leading PNBC, making plans to either cancel it or deciding whether it was beneficial to allow students to complete the year before closing its doors. I know there was great discussion about how to deal with the students, finances and curriculum. I know this because the administrator for PNBC talks a lot, especially when frustrated. I have to say that for you to actually ask, “Who is Tony Cunningham?” is laughable. You are deep enough into this to know exactly who he is even if you’ve ever never met the man. Again, I encourage you to be real here or don’t waste my time. I wasn’t even going to post on here until I read that. The one thing I am learning to do since leaving that place is to be real- real with myself, real with others, real about what really happened.
It bothers me (again my issue) that you feel comfortable answering questions the way you did, implying you had less of a relationship with PM than you really did. Just because you only attended less than a dozen services at the actual building doesn’t mean you didn’t have an idea about what was going on behind the scenes.
So if you are still open to it, I also have a couple questions to add:
I’ve heard that you have entrusted TPC Lebanon to someone else. Are you freeing yourself up to provide leadership to WOC in the interim or as the future Senior Pastor?
What, if any, conversations have you had with Pastor Jackie Singer and what is your current stand on the embezzlement accusations?
What is your current relationship and communication with Mike Villamor?
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
BraveHeart
()
Date: March 07, 2011 04:15PM
Friends from TCP Keep up the good fight, Pray that the gospel of Jesus Christ be preached and the truth prevail.
Jesus said that in the end times false prophets will come into the church and mislead many.
I believe exposing these devils helps strengthen the faith for the few that remain or were others were lead astray from faith of Jesus Christ.
I am curious has the elder board at TCP been cleaned out? No more wolves?
in other words is all the leaven [false teachers] been removed?
Jesus said that in the end times false prophets will come into the church and mislead many.
I believe exposing these devils helps strengthen the faith for the few that remain or were others were lead astray from faith of Jesus Christ.
I am curious has the elder board at TCP been cleaned out? No more wolves?
in other words is all the leaven [false teachers] been removed?
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
buddy
()
Date: March 08, 2011 03:20AM
Quote
BraveHeart
Friends from TCP Keep up the good fight, Pray that the gospel of Jesus Christ be preached and the truth prevail.
Jesus said that in the end times false prophets will come into the church and mislead many.
I believe exposing these devils helps strengthen the faith for the few that remain or were others were lead astray from faith of Jesus Christ.
I am curious has the elder board at TCP been cleaned out? No more wolves?
in other words is all the leaven [false teachers] been removed?
I do not know the answer to your question BraveHeart since the wolves like to dress up like sheep! Even Calvin Bontrager has exTPCWOC Marketplace Ministry director false word faith-movement teacher power to produce guy and goofy Bethel church in Redding as his interest on his facebook. Also some of the nice people left on the titanic will have to go down with the ship now that the leaders have abandoned ship and left them hopelessly with no leader! Some of the people still think false Apostle Mike and Jeff Barnes are the victims. Some are still believing in false teachers and doctrines. It could take some time for some of them to come to grips on how TPCWOC became a cultic Church. The people left are nice and sincere. I pray that over time people left there will understand what really happened in the past.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Calvin Bontrager
()
Date: March 08, 2011 01:42PM
Wow... I probably don't belong here. My hope was to share openly and honestly about what I know.... Several issues have come up about Tony and I have never met him and do not know what the deal is with him... I do know he apparently did some teaching at WOC that was brought into question but that is all.... Sorry to disappoint you but that is the truth....
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Calvin Bontrager
()
Date: March 08, 2011 01:45PM
Actually your comment that "most" do it this way I believe is quite inaccurate. Where did you find this statistic and how was it verified?
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
wherefromhere
()
Date: March 09, 2011 01:00AM
Oh Calvin- I echo what 'dontask' said in the above post. To minimize what you know about Tony Cunningham is almost insulting. I do appreciate you attempting to communicate with those on this site, however, you have skirted the issues presented to you. 1. Are you still the Senior Pastor in Lebanon? 2. What is your current relationship with Mike Villamor? 3. Do you believe that he did anything wrong at TPC and to the Singer family? 5. Have you yourself had any contact with Pastor Jackie regarding the attack on her character by the Villamors and TPC? 6. Are you considering coming to Marysville TPC as Pastor? These are just a few of the questions presented to you, that you seem to find difficult to answer. I know that what 'Dontask" posted is accurate. All of it. I think you have under estimated those who post on this forum and who we really are Calvin.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
seentoomuch
()
Date: March 09, 2011 01:01AM
Quote
Calvin Bontrager
Wow... I probably don't belong here. My hope was to share openly and honestly about what I know.... Several issues have come up about Tony and I have never met him and do not know what the deal is with him... I do know he apparently did some teaching at WOC that was brought into question but that is all.... Sorry to disappoint you but that is the truth....
When I saw you first post I wondered if it would be too much for you. Hopefully you can wade thru the sarcasm and hurt on here to recognize we all want the same thing... Openness and Honesty. There have been a lot of questions addressed to you that have nothing to do with Tony so maybe start there. If you are willing Calvin, I think you could contribute greatly to the dialog here and potentially the healing but it may mean that you acknowledge mistakes you made along the way and the effects of those decisions. I can only speak for myself and I truly hope you stay and dialogue and maybe gain an understanding of the situation.
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