Noone, you may say right doctrine is not as important an loving God and seeking truth, and iattend says teaching false doctrine doesnt matter as long as you are seeking after God but this is not what the Bible tells us.

The Bible teaches that doctrine – sound (correct) doctrine – matters.

I was just thinking of that verse 10 min ago. but what bothers me is every one believes they have the sound doctrine just as much as the other guy, I was desturbed when I found out maritin luther changed a word in the bible to fit his beliefs, It makes me wonder what hss been changed that we dont know about. Gods ways are not mens ways His thoughts are not our thoughts. all of us are encluded in the word our. none is righteous. but we all want to be right, My hope is that Jesus came to this earth to undo what adam did. since we were all condemmed for what adam did wether we believed or not wether we were good or not. My hope is im saved by what Jesus did the same way. my hope is i'm saved becasue God is good not because I am good. I believe having a pastor and elders who lie without concience is good enough reason for me to leave a place. I have a friend on here who also has the need to be right. they cant see how miserable they are because of their need to be right. they keep thinking there are other issues but all I see is a need to be right. Live and let live brother. speek your issues. maybe because you left tp so many years ago there isnt much to speak about I dont know. but If you like I think your right about all the doctrine stuff. but Im still not going back to turningpoint because the leaders are still liars. and to be real honest I dont give a rip about anybodys doctrine. maybe i dont even know what doctrine is. I hope Im saved by grace not by my understanding of some set of rules and conditions. If when its over and I'm not with you in heaven you can shake you head and say I told you so. pray for me

Well, just a couple of things on the discussion at hand: Since the scripture says to "watch your life and doctrine closely" and to "study to show yourself approved unto God, workmen who do not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth," it IS possible to--and we are responsible to--abide in sound doctrine/truth.

The key is likely found in at least two factors for which we must all take responsibility: (1) to refuse to use scripture to advocate or justify selfish purposes (and to be savvy about people who do--we are to be shrewd as serpents in these things, Jesus said), and (2) to know what the scriptures say so we cannot and will not be deceived by a distorted message. Since the Holy Spirit guides the believer (who is submitted to Christ) into ALL truth, studying the Scriptures will be a clarifying, not a muddying, experience for becoming rooted and grounded in truth (sound doctrine).

We should not look around and say, "Even Martin Luther got it wrong!" We need to look at the Word and pray, "Lord, keep me in the truth as I study your Word and seek to know what it really teaches." The scriptures say that people who will be deceived by the false prophets and teachers of the end times will perish because they did not love the truth. Loving Jesus and loving the truth are inseperable. If we love Him, we will love His Word and long to know it well and will cling to it, despite what the popular trend of the day might be in "Christian" culture.

well then I guess I'm screwed learning point

you know, noone...you left Turning Point Church because the leaders lie. What's so wrong with telling lies? Where does it say lying is wrong?

[www.james-dave.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2010 12:28PM by TurningPointReject.

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nooneofanyimportence
well then I guess I'm screwed learning point

Why do you say that, nooneofanyimportance? I think quite the contrary: you/we are NOT screwed.

As for you, I was thinking that you have the Word, you have the Holy Spirit, you love the Lord, you love truth, you love the Word, you are not out for selfish gain.

I thought you would be encouraged by words that affirm that that you're/we're not doomed to flounder around in a stew of uncertainty about what the Word teaches. I certainly did not mean to discourage you or anyone else.

Yep...you guessed it...another doctrine link...

[calvarychapel.pbworks.com]

Let me rephrase what i wrote. I lumped in teachings in general, so the non essentials into doctrine. I stand by that statement. I think a person who believes in spiritual gifts and speaks in tongues can get into heaven and so can someone who doesnt. There are however things that are solid and can't be changed and that is what matters. So salvation through Jesus, God being one God etc. I used the word doctrine wrong, I apologize. Brain fart.
Also buddy you said a deacon's picture was missing? Who is that?
And the part of my post about how I was hurt and whatever was misunderstood. I apparently wasn't able to convey what I was meaning and its being taken differently, not bad, just not what I meant.
Learningpoint, I don't know anyone that has been healed there, I know people that have attended services and encountered God and had phenomonal experiences there. I know the verse about the false prophets and healing but it just seems so bizarre to me to assume that its not real. I have been healed (side note I NEVER said people heal people. I have gotten multiple messages saying that I have. You guys twist my words. God heals. End of story.) at at turning point. ( again I am not saying turning point healed me or Pastor Mike healed me, GOD healed me) No you can't take that as an end all sign but in John Jesus says to believe God sent him because of the miracles. All through out acts people come to salvation because of miracles. It seems like you guys just assume all healing is fake and the churches that have healing are wacked.

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iattend
Let me rephrase what i wrote. I lumped in teachings in general, so the non essentials into doctrine. I stand by that statement. I think a person who believes in spiritual gifts and speaks in tongues can get into heaven and so can someone who doesnt. There are however things that are solid and can't be changed and that is what matters. So salvation through Jesus, God being one God etc. I used the word doctrine wrong, I apologize. Brain fart.
Also buddy you said a deacon's picture was missing? Who is that?
And the part of my post about how I was hurt and whatever was misunderstood. I apparently wasn't able to convey what I was meaning and its being taken differently, not bad, just not what I meant.
Learningpoint, I don't know anyone that has been healed there, I know people that have attended services and encountered God and had phenomonal experiences there. I know the verse about the false prophets and healing but it just seems so bizarre to me to assume that its not real. I have been healed (side note I NEVER said people heal people. I have gotten multiple messages saying that I have. You guys twist my words. God heals. End of story.) at at turning point. ( again I am not saying turning point healed me or Pastor Mike healed me, GOD healed me) No you can't take that as an end all sign but in John Jesus says to believe God sent him because of the miracles. All through out acts people come to salvation because of miracles. It seems like you guys just assume all healing is fake and the churches that have healing are wacked.

Welcome, iattend

I don't think anyone on the forum believes that all healings are fake or that churches that have healings are wacked. People are just being very cautious and wanting to make sure that it is from God. Satan counterfeits everything. Just because something good happens does not mean it is from God.
We left the church just over a year ago. I don't feel we were hurt by anyone there, but after seeing & hearing what was going on and what had gone on and what was being taught we decided it was not a healthy church to attend.
I hope you have read all the posts from the beginning of this forum because it helps to understand where everyone has come from and has gone through. What Mike and Cindy have done to the church by taking such a large salary and not having that open knowledge to the church body on how much they earn is so wrong. All Churches need to accountable and the finances should be open for everyone to see. The fact that they lied to the church about the sabbactial they took should be a red flag to everyone. I remember sitting in service and Mike saying "No we are not having marriage problems" If that is not a lie than I don't know. We should not trust a Pastor that lies!!! Another thing to, any Pastor that won't take time to see someone or go to funerals, or hospitals when requested or needed there is something wrong. Don't make excuses for him that he has a big flock. Those kind of situations anyone can take time if they really care about their flock. I hope you can see that people on this forum for the most part are all hurting and just want the truth to be revealed. We all have different ways of dealing with things and different styles of writing. God Bless you as he shows you his truth.
Outreach

Thanks for clarifying your points iattend

You seemed to miss our point the point I believe many of them are trying to convey, it is an opinion that many of us share. Many of us believe in healing, many of us believe that God can and will do things through false teachers, does that make what they are doing right? No.

God is not too pridefull to use a church with wacked out theology, but having said that Satan heals people too.
I am not saying Bill, or any other NAR Apostle is healing people in the name of Satan. I think they are abusing what God taught. Thus making it very unhealthy.

But my point is this I bet if I asked any attendant who goes to a church there why not leave, many would be say something very fimiliar to what you hear at TPC, "God is moving, and doing so much around us!!!! And the healings, why would I leave?"

The problem with this is these are not signs of a healthy church, or a sound thinknig mind, because healing and God moving are things that happen within Christendom reguardless if you are following sound doctrine. So thus brings us to the question why follow sound doctrine, BECAUSE ITS TRUTH, and the knowledge of the truth will set you free.

(One second you do believe scripture is the highest authroity now that the Apostles are dead?)

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iattend
It seems like you guys just assume all healing is fake and the churches that have healing are wacked.

Nice to see ya again Iattend.
These are exciting times at Turning Point Church.
With the launch of United Global Ministries they have fully given themselves over to the teachings and instructions of the New Apostolic Reformation along with the likes of Todd Bently, Rick Joiner, etc. These guys make Tony C look like an amateur.

Thank you for taking time to respond to some of the posts that others have made.
I want to reiterate if I have manipulated you, please, let me know that I may make amends.

I agree with you.
God does heal.
I personally dont think all healings are fake...only the ones that cannot be documented or verified.

Also, I dont believe that a church is whacked if a healing takes place in that church.
Nor do I believe that a church is filled with God's spirit just because a healing takes place at that church.
I believe churches that are whack become so because of false doctrine like "covering", "spiritual parenting", "covenant relation","unity with me", "word of faith", gnosticism, God is my ATM machine, we are little gods, and much of the teaching and instruction coming out of the NAR.