I am just so disheartened and in a place where I do not think I will go back to church. Ever. So, we started going to church in Marysville at the Nazarene Church. We went there thinking we had found a home until the youth pastor didn't return 2 phone calls and was generally unresponsive to us and our newly adopted children. But, we persevered and scheduled 4 different appointments with the lead Pastor. The 4th appointment was met with a phone call at the last moment that he couldn't make it because he "spaced" it out after I had taken the day off of work to prepare for his visit. So, we left the church in part due to that and the dead congregation. Really, it didn't seem dead at first, but then after being there for about 6 months, we knew no one. No one made and effort to get past "hi". We went to events and church every Sunday, but the church was a dissapointment. We really liked it too because it was so close to our house. But we also got sick of hearing the pastor preaching "light" sermons and talk about coffee and sugar. There was no depth in the preaching. The worship pastor was completely self absorbed and centered worship around himself. He was vastly talented, but was not responsive to putting new people on worship teams and cultivating and atmosphere of inclusion and instead, he was scattered and mismanaged his ministry. But, he was very gifted in music. The lead pastor was very nice and personable, but I just could not get past the general sense of scatteredness and inattention to his flock.

Then, we went to another church which shall remain nameless. The church began heading in the Turning Point direction with a pastor more focused on preaching than pastoring. This pastor suggested we connect on the phone for prayer because he didn't have time. The church is becoming fraught with legalism in that, in order to serve, you must do this, or must do that. The church his going to have worship seminars and has become trapped in performance. It makes me sick because we have this young life that we are trying to change and help and provide breakthrough for, but the church has failed, and failed miserably. The youth pastor was un responsive and generally disconnected from how to work with a kid from such poor circumstances and put forth NO effort!

Thank you wonderful pastors in Marysville for your loving attention to this young life that was rescued from a drug house. Thank you for your true religion of ministering to orphans, widows and the poor. I am sure all of you getting together as a mighty group is going to change Marysville. NOT

Are we being too harsh calling Turning Point a "Destructive Church"?...

According to this article, we should be calling it a "Destructive Cult"!

Do you know someone in a destructive cult?

Warning signs!

Anyone could attack a group they disagree with by unfairly labeling it a destructive cult. How would you know whether it really were such a cult or not? Isn't there an objective method to evaluate groups for cultic tendencies? Yes. The following early warning signs can help you reasonably determine whether or not a group is likely to be a destructive cult, and if you should be concerned about a friend, coworker, or loved one being involved with it.

The main reason that the following destructive cult tactics are so damaging to both the individual and society is because they debilitate rationality and reduce empathy. Rationality and empathy are indispensable in making good personal and social decisions. History is littered with personal and social catastrophes where a lack of rationality and lack of empathy were its core causes.

Ask yourself if the following criteria apply to the group you are concerned about.

1. A destructive cult tends to be totalitarian in its control of its members' behavior.

2. A destructive cult tends to have an ethical double standard.

3. A destructive cult has only two basic purposes: recruiting new members and fund-raising. Destructive cults may claim to make social contributions, but in actuality such claims are superficial and only serve as gestures or fronts for recruiting and fund-raising. A cult's real goal is to increase the prestige and often the wealth of the leader.

4. A destructive cult appears to be innovative and exclusive. The leader claims to be breaking with tradition, offering something novel, and instituting the ONLY viable system for change that will solve life's problems or the world's ills. But these claims are empty and only used to recruit members who are then surreptitiously subjected to mind control to inhibit their ability to examine the actual validity of the claims of the leader and the cult.

5. A destructive cult is authoritarian in its power structure. The leader is regarded as the supreme authority. He or she may delegate certain power to a few subordinates for the purpose of seeing that members adhere to the leader's wishes. There is no appeal outside his or her system to a greater system of justice.

6. A destructive cult's leader is a self-appointed messianic person claiming to have a special mission in life.

7. A destructive cult's leader centers the veneration of members upon himself or herself. Priests, rabbis, ministers, democratic leaders, and other leaders of genuinely altruistic movements focus the veneration of adherents on God or a set of ethical principles. Cult leaders, in contrast, keep the focus of love, devotion, and allegiance on themselves.

8. A destructive cult's leader tends to be determined, domineering, and charismatic. Such a leader effectively persuades followers to abandon or alter their families, friends, and careers to follow the cult. The leader then takes control over followers' possessions, money, time, and lives.

(From factnet.org)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2010 04:00PM by LearningPoint.

TTT, I sent you a PM. I'm really sorry! That kind of pastoral response/behavior is deeply disappointing to me, too!

TTT I emphasize with you and your experience with church’s , I just want you to know you are loved. Since I know what church you are now attending, and their history, it makes me wonder if it is possible to have success without losing humility. When leaders leave a once thriving church which has faltered and headed down hill, and start their own church but still practice the same things that destroyed their former church, you have to wonder who or what is directing them, When you see men who’s lives were totally destroyed, who hit bottom in this world and had nothing, suddenly lifted up to a position in the church and start demanding respect from the members supposedly below him, then you know that man has forgotten where he came from. The world views success as being the top guy, being popular, having authority over others, the world and all its people strive for such a position, But Jesus said in Gods world, consider others better then yourself if you want to be the greatest serve the least, honor the unmentionable parts of the body, so they may know all parts are equal, seek to be selfless, let God lift you up, receive all things in humility, lose your life to gain it. And so on, I’m pretty sure all these things apply to pastors and leaders of the church too. Don’t give up hope T T T somewhere out there is people of God who actually want to humbly serve Him, and are not seeking success. Of course we may have to go to Everett to find them .

I sense there is a general disappointment with leaders in all areas-church, politics, corporate business, media, education, etc. Hence the growth of Home based churches, Tea Party, wall street backlash, decline in readership and viewerships of news organizations, and the continue growth of homeschooling.

The mass exodus from Turning Point Church in Marysville is just one symptom of a larger problem. In effect individuals are saying to so called leaders, "Get out of our way. We have had enough." Leaders have lost site of their first and most important mandate. Put the needs of those you lead ahead and above your own personal needs. When leaders call upon their constituencies to make great sacrifice for the good of the group only to turn around and eschew sacrifice on their own part they lose credibility. Leading by example is in short supply. There exists at all levels of leadership today a "do as I say, not as I do" mentality. Would be followers are loudly rejecting such mentality and actively walking away from such leaders.

Even in non democratic societies ruled by a collective tyranny we see people standing up to failed leadership. Look at what is taking place in countries like Iran. When one gives into the temptation to lead by edict rather than consent the results are such that those being forced or coerced to follow begin to stand up and reject this type of leadership-even when threatened with death as has been the case in Iran. Freedom loving people will always reject and throw off the oppressive ties of tyrannical leaders be they leaders of failing churches, failing banks, or failing countries. This occurs because leaders stop putting the needs of those they lead ahead of their own desire. When they break the very promises they make to those they lead they lose their ability to lead.

True and effective leadership take actions, not designed to enrich themselves, but designed to empower and free those they lead. All leadership action should be infused with self sacrifice. Jesus modeled this type of sacrificial leadership for those who would dare call themselves pastors, apostles, prophets when he freely went to the cross. Over and over he placed the need of those he would lead over his own needs. Thus he could tell his disciples to feed the five thousand rather than send them away; he could take time out of his day to heal those who suffered physically, emotionally, and spiritually; he could turn the water into wine; he could risk being stoned to save the woman entrapped in adultery; he could wash the feet of the twelve; the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve.

Pastors who fail to return phone calls, space out appointments, demand honor, are willing to allow others to cook their meals and clean their homes but won't do the same for others, refuse to take calls from ordinary people, etc, are not leaders. There may be a number of other fitting titles but they are not leaders. Is it any wonder more and more people reject the church. They are not rejecting the Gospel message as much as they are rejecting the bastardization of that message by those who call themselves church leaders.

More and more pastors are demanding honor and obedience - not to the Gospel but unto themselves. The idea of serving another is repulsive and beneath many of today's spiritual leaders. They lord their position over their congregants and insist on blind obedience. This is in contrast to what we see Jesus doing in John 13. He washes the feet of his followers. This was a lowly act leadership. It was dirty work and typically done by the house slave or servant. It was so shocking that Peter insisted that Jesus would not was his feet. In Peter's mind this act of leadership was below the dignity of Jesus and he would not allow Jesus to lower himself in this fashion. Jesus responded, "Unless I wash you, you have no part with me." In other words, Jesus was saying, "Peter if you fail to see that leadership is about serving then you really don't know who I am or why I came and have no fellowship with me." Pastors who seek honor at the expense of serving-doing the dirty work-have no fellowship with Jesus.

Later in the same chapter of John Jesus states emphatically, "As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." Jesus just finished demonstrating what love looks like among those who would be leaders of the church. Pastors can have all the unity services they desire; they can establish any number of schools they want; they can create any sort of renewed vision program that suits their fancy; but if they fail the basic test of sacrificial service then they have no fellowship with Jesus.

Do not be enamored with loud music and bright lights; don't settle for wild free for all dancing; don't choose a church based on its size. Don't be fooled by important or spiritual sounding self given titles. None of these are appropriate measures of a pastor's effectiveness as a leader or of his connection with Jesus. Look for a pastor who quietly and continually serves. Not one who serves in order to talk about his own actions in his next sermon but one who quietly serves in humility and sacrifice. Look for the pastor who joyfully does the dirty work without demanding anything in return.

When we begin to see these types of leaders in churches, politics, business, media, and education then we will gladly follow. But until that time comes we will continue to hear people say loud and clear, "get out of the way." We will continue to stand up and speak out; we will continue to turn our backs on leaders who seek to lord it over us; we will become the very type of leaders we long for. We will be the ones who wash each others feet.

TPR, your description of a pastor reminds me of the pastor we left at a Lutheran Church in Lake Stevens. He was a man who served and sat with my family for almost 12 hours as my dad died. He humbly served. I miss him, but I don't miss the dead church. I am beginning to get a bit of a complex because the Concerned Marysville Pastor who was so touched by my post never responded back regarding where he preached at, so we can't try there. It's ok though. Like NoOne said, we may need to go to Everett.

TPCWOC sermon for Sunday Feb.14th : Devotion to the Local Cult Church: by false prophet(The Rock) Cyndi Villamor is now online at TPCWOC home web site. Cyndi used the word church 108 times so you would not forget where you are this Sunday. Cyndi says God still loves the (cult) church through the good, bad and ugly. Cyndi says she comes from a long line of preachers and she is part of the 5th generation of preachers. Pretty crazy.(you got that right) She says most preacher kids hate the church because they see what their parents went through. Cyndi never got to play cops and robbers because she was to busy playing church when she was a child. ( No wonder you are having problems at TP now ,you played church for to long in your childhood) She says that there are seasons when you do not feel like meeting together. (especially at your church Cyndi when you are preaching )She says that as long as I am here there is going to be problems in the church.( I could of told you that) She says not to give up meeting, its not a good idea.(She needs your money)She believes in the Great assembly of believers and 5 people or a small group is not the church, but she needs hundreds and thousands for the great assembly.($$$$$) She says she will give you free child care if you come to her church.( I new there was a reason to come)She says there is harmony in the church and before she gives her offering she settles disputes quickly. She says even if a brother has something against her, she settles it quickly.( I been waiting a long time for you to settle with me, where do we line up at) She says we should always be convicted in the (cult) church.(I wish you and Mike would be) She believes in the (The Kingdom Now Theology Cult) greater kingdom purpose and the enemy wants to stop TPCWOC from planting churches. She says the number one way to reach the lost is by planting churches. She says that there has been an attack and assault on organized religion in the past 10 years. (Cyndi your church has been trying to look main stream for 10 years, but you have turned into a cult church, you have been trying to fool everyone with your love unity disguise and want everyone to accept your false doctrines and we are starting to wake up and confront you with Truth) She says that when the church gains power that the enemy brings controversy into the church and trys to shut it down. She wants to you to be a rock , not a pebble, so when people push you you will not move. She says we need the body to accomplish the greater kingdom purposes(Kingdom Now theology).The strategies God has for the Church.( The Kingdom Now Theology Cult is now at TPCWOC) Cyndi says that great minds like John Bevere have had a great impact and he has a team preparing the way getting his books published.( So false Apostle Mike won't have to read his bible anymore) She says we must have brotherly love toward each other( She said that just in case you want to question her false doctrine then you will not be showing love)She says that TPCWOC has never been a low commitment church and they will never be one. We will press(make) our people to meet the needs of other people.(Meet the needs of Mikes new lavish lifestyle as the great Apostle) She says that she wants you to change your name into the Rock to build up the (cult) church and change your view of the church.( As long as your view is the same as false Apostle Mike and false Prophet Cyndi Villamor you will not have anything to worry about)

Strategic Advance Intensive:PNBC(SOMA)

Date: From Mar 10, 2010, to Mar 12, 2010
Time: From 9:00 am until 4:00 pm
Location: TBD


Required for all full time students. Must be enrolled to attend.
This will be an off site intensive. Students will all be attending the Vision Conference at Christian Faith Center in Federal Way, Washington.


Just great TPCWOC leadership sending the sheep into a pack of wolves.
They will get there teaching from false Word- Faith Movement teachers Casey and Wendy Treat, Bishop T.D. Jakes, and the famous Dr. Creflo Dollar.
The Word-Faith Movement is in the words of the Apostle Peter a "destructive heresy"(2 Peter2:1)
TPCWOC leadership you are not hiding your true intentions to lead many down the path to destruction.
You will shipwreck a many brothers and sisters in the faith.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2010 11:45AM by buddy.

All of this SOUNDs good.
Right?
Sounds LIKE truth, does it not?
Except that the truth has been twisted just a teeny tiny bit.
Who can find where Mike has ever so slightly twisted the truth to suit his purposes?

Yes, this is a challenge.
So who is up to the challenge?

Anyone?

Can any Marysville Pastor see the flaws?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Ferris Bueller?

Quote
TurningPointReject



Vision

To facilitate relationships among pastors and churches with the common purpose of making Jesus famous. (Eph 3:7-11)


Purpose

PROVIDE Apostolic leadership, encouragement, training and resources to pastors and church planters. (Acts 15:30-35, 16:5, Eph 4:11-13)

PURSUE unity within the Kingdom of God (Eph 4:1-6, 11-16)

PRODUCE and train apostolic ministry leaders and teams. (Eph 4:8-10)

PLANT churches that plant churches. (Book of Acts)


Partner Churches:

TPC Skagit Valley

TPC Lebanon

TPC Surigao

TPC Canada

TPC World Outreach Center


What does UGM provide :

Connectivity:

UGM provides an environment for meaningful relationships among pastors

and church leaders for the purpose of encouragement, friendship and accountability.


Deposit:

Receive training and resources necessary to

foster ongoing health and growth.


Exposure:

Recognizing God’s work in the broader Body of

Christ, each year the Apostolic Ministry Team

will provide opportunities for member pastors

and churches to receive teaching from Nationally recognized Christian

leaders.


Commissioning, Licensing and Ordaining

Recognizing and releasing men and women into

the ministery call upon their lives.