I have some questions about the "unity in the essentials, grace in the non-essentials. In all things, love" mantra. It was first spoken by Augustine. Not Paul, or John or Peter, or Jesus. So I wonder, what unity did Paul have with the false teachers of his day? I wonder, what unity did Jesus have with the Pharisees of his day?

Jesus prayed that his disciples would be one "brought to complete unity" but unity with whom? One another? Teachers who mixed myths with the truth? Jesus said, "just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me". We are to have unity in Christ, but are we really instructed by the Word that we are to find unity with those who engage in false teaching? Jesus claimed no unity with the Pharisees; Paul, Peter and John claimed no unity with false teachers and false apostles.

In the very same prayer Jesus asks his father to sanctify (set apart from the world) his disciples: "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified". How are we sanctified? Is it by unity? No. It is by truth. What truth? John Bevere's Truth? Augustine's truth? No. God's Word is truth. We are to be set apart from the world through God's Word. How can we be sanctified by the Word if teachers are teaching a polluted gospel? And if teachers teach a false gospel how can we hope to find unity in Christ? So why do pastors today seem driven to stand in unity with those in our society who loudly proclaim teachings contrary to Jesus, Paul, Peter, and John...contrary to the Word meant to sanctify?

If you have followed the Radiant Life Church thread you may remember that Mike's mentor, Tony, pushed the unity movement in his community. He was very instrumental in that movement. And what is striking is the silence of the pastors in that community. I do not recall any pastors speaking out on the RLC thread. Only when the press and a local radio show began exploring the Radiant Life issues did pastors begin to speak out. The unity mantra seems good. It can be supported by scripture. The danger is that it is often used as a means to engage in questionable teaching by inoculating the false teacher against criticism of their teachings. The moment anyone questions the teachings the unity card is played and those asking questions are label 'rebellious' or 'divisive'. Hence the silence among scores of pastors in multiple communities throughout the world where false teachers loudly and proudly proclaim a false gospel rooted in a false christ. And many sheep are allowed to be led astray. Do you choose to stay silent? Do you justify your silence, saying "I dont really know what is going on over there"?

Proverbs 24

11 Rescue those being led away to death;
hold back those staggering toward slaughter.

12 If you say, "But we knew nothing about this,"
does not he who weighs the heart perceive it?
Does not he who guards your life know it?
Will he not repay each person according to what he has done?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2010 02:30PM by TurningPointReject.

Quote
TurningPointReject
I have some questions about the "unity in the essentials, grace in the non-essentials. In all things, love" mantra. It was first spoken by Augustine. Not Paul, or John or Peter, or Jesus. So I wonder, what unity did Paul have with the false teachers of his day? I wonder, what unity did Jesus have with the Pharisees of his day?

Jesus prayed that his disciples would be one "brought to complete unity" but unity with whom? One another? Teachers who mixed myths with the truth? Jesus said, "just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me". We are to have unity in Christ, but are we really instructed by the Word that we are to find unity with those who engage in false teaching? Jesus claimed no unity with the Pharisees; Paul, Peter and John claimed no unity with false teachers and false apostles.

In the very same prayer Jesus asks his father to sanctify (set apart from the world) his disciples: "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified". How are we sanctified? Is it by unity? No. It is by truth. What truth? John Bevere's Truth? Augustine's truth? No. God's Word is truth. We are to be set apart from the world through God's Word. How can we be sanctified by the Word if teachers are teaching a polluted gospel? And if teachers teach a false gospel how can we hope to find unity in Christ? So why do pastors today seem driven to stand in unity with those in our society who loudly proclaim teachings contrary to Jesus, Paul, Peter, and John...contrary to the Word meant to sanctify?

If you have followed the Radiant Life Church thread you may remember that Mike's mentor, Tony, pushed the unity movement in his community. He was very instrumental in that movement. And what is striking is the silence of the pastors in that community. I do not recall any pastors speaking out on the RLC thread. Only when the press and a local radio show began exploring the Radiant Life issues did pastors begin to speak out. The unity mantra seems good. It can be supported by scripture. The danger is that it is often used as a means to engage in questionable teaching by inoculating the false teacher against criticism of their teachings. The moment anyone questions the teachings the unity card is played and those asking questions are label 'rebellious' or 'divisive'. Hence the silence among scores of pastors in multiple communities throughout the world where false teachers loudly and proudly proclaim a false gospel rooted in a false christ. And many sheep are allowed to be led astray. Do you choose to stay silent? Do you justify your silence, saying "I dont really know what is going on over there"?

Proverbs 24

11 Rescue those being led away to death;
hold back those staggering toward slaughter.

12 If you say, "But we knew nothing about this,"
does not he who weighs the heart perceive it?
Does not he who guards your life know it?
Will he not repay each person according to what he has done?

TPR, Very well said. My problem finding a church in Marysville is finding one that is not standing in unity with false teachers. When local pastors have knowledge of these teachings and do not agree with them, and choose not to confront them in love with biblical truth, I just don't get it. Mike and Cyndi, Jeff and Kim are not the only ones teaching this doctrine within the unity group. To me it's black and white if you don't make a stand against it, then your silence is standing for it. Buddy's wife.

To Phun and Everyone on the Forum:

I acknowledge that I returned sarcastic remarks in a flippant manner to Phun's first post. My last post in that series--the one that started "all joking aside" (or something like that)--was not sufficient to take the sting out of those first retorts, it seems...though I did not intend them to sting, only to be thought provoking--to reveal the irony of Phun's approach. I don't explain as an excuse, only as explanation.

SO, while I stand by my positions and convictions, I don't stand by my approach to Phun's initial post, and not as a matter of grandstanding, but as a matter of public record (since the posts are public), Phun, I want to apologize for any hurt or anger I might have stirred in you by those responses. My real heart toward you is one of compassion and hope and cheering for you to know truth and freedom. I wish you no ill or harm.

I hope you will read more of the material here and stay on and dialogue with you. You implied that you have greater biblical knowledge than we do, so it would be helpful if you would share what you know and show us what we're missing.

Thanks.

Christine

I read Concerned Marysville Pastor's post and had to think and read my Bible before I responded. When I read the post by Buddy's Wife, I thought of my Grandfather. She is absolutely correct. Prior to the bombing of Pearl Harbor American's did not want to get involved in problems and conflict that was not their problem. After December 7, 1941, millions of American's lined up to take a stand. The stand that many of us have taken against the false teachings and prideful ways of Mike Villamor and company is that kind of stand. You can agree to disagree, but at the end of the day if you do not take a stand against false teachings and false teachers who are enriching themselves by feeding on their flock, then you are wrong. I choose to learn from history because if you do not learn from history the same mistakes and problems will continue to occur every two or three generations. I taught my children the difference between right and wrong. God's Word is there for all of us to read to discern right from wrong. I cannot agree with operating in the gray areas with impunity -- avoid even the appearance of impropriety! Has Mike and TPC Leadership done that? No, quite the contrary. Failure to confront is wrong. Appeasement and head in the sand actions by those who are Mike's peers is wrong. If Mike wants to be the CEO of some grand empire like The Donald then he should relinquish his budding empires tax exempt status and be what he truly is, a motivational speaker and leave Our Father in Heaven out of it. God told Mike he wanted all or nothing. Looks like he is getting nothing. Paul had no trouble pointing out false teachers and warning God's people to shun them. If there are those who are sympathetic to what we have been through it is vindicating, but TPC is still practicing its own special form of Spiritual abuse. So we can either stand up for our Father in Heaven or we can practice appeasement which we know from history does no good. Taking a stand is the only answer.

D of D

Correction in red below:

Quote
LearningPoint
To Phun and Everyone on the Forum:

I acknowledge that I returned sarcastic remarks in a flippant manner to Phun's first post. My last post in that series--the one that started "all joking aside" (or something like that)--was not sufficient to take the sting out of those first retorts, it seems...though I did not intend them to sting, only to be thought provoking--to reveal the irony of Phun's approach. I don't explain as an excuse, only as explanation.

SO, while I stand by my positions and convictions, I don't stand by my approach to Phun's initial post, and not as a matter of grandstanding, but as a matter of public record (since the posts are public), Phun, I want to apologize for any hurt or anger I might have stirred in you by those responses. My real heart toward you is one of compassion and hope and cheering for you to know truth and freedom. I wish you no ill or harm.

I hope you will read more of the material here and stay on and dialogue with us. You implied that you have greater biblical knowledge than we do, so it would be helpful if you would share what you know and show us what we're missing.

Thanks.

Christine

CMP,

I hope you will answer these two posts (quoted below) in particular. Please keep dialoging with us!

Thanks!!!

Quote
buddy

Quote
TurningPointReject
I have some questions about the "unity in the essentials, grace in the non-essentials. In all things, love" mantra. It was first spoken by Augustine. Not Paul, or John or Peter, or Jesus. So I wonder, what unity did Paul have with the false teachers of his day? I wonder, what unity did Jesus have with the Pharisees of his day?

Jesus prayed that his disciples would be one "brought to complete unity" but unity with whom? One another? Teachers who mixed myths with the truth? Jesus said, "just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me". We are to have unity in Christ, but are we really instructed by the Word that we are to find unity with those who engage in false teaching? Jesus claimed no unity with the Pharisees; Paul, Peter and John claimed no unity with false teachers and false apostles.

In the very same prayer Jesus asks his father to sanctify (set apart from the world) his disciples: "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified". How are we sanctified? Is it by unity? No. It is by truth. What truth? John Bevere's Truth? Augustine's truth? No. God's Word is truth. We are to be set apart from the world through God's Word. How can we be sanctified by the Word if teachers are teaching a polluted gospel? And if teachers teach a false gospel how can we hope to find unity in Christ? So why do pastors today seem driven to stand in unity with those in our society who loudly proclaim teachings contrary to Jesus, Paul, Peter, and John...contrary to the Word meant to sanctify?

If you have followed the Radiant Life Church thread you may remember that Mike's mentor, Tony, pushed the unity movement in his community. He was very instrumental in that movement. And what is striking is the silence of the pastors in that community. I do not recall any pastors speaking out on the RLC thread. Only when the press and a local radio show began exploring the Radiant Life issues did pastors begin to speak out. The unity mantra seems good. It can be supported by scripture. The danger is that it is often used as a means to engage in questionable teaching by inoculating the false teacher against criticism of their teachings. The moment anyone questions the teachings the unity card is played and those asking questions are label 'rebellious' or 'divisive'. Hence the silence among scores of pastors in multiple communities throughout the world where false teachers loudly and proudly proclaim a false gospel rooted in a false christ. And many sheep are allowed to be led astray. Do you choose to stay silent? Do you justify your silence, saying "I dont really know what is going on over there"?

Proverbs 24

11 Rescue those being led away to death;
hold back those staggering toward slaughter.

12 If you say, "But we knew nothing about this,"
does not he who weighs the heart perceive it?
Does not he who guards your life know it?
Will he not repay each person according to what he has done?

TPR, Very well said. My problem finding a church in Marysville is finding one that is not standing in unity with false teachers. When local pastors have knowledge of these teachings and do not agree with them, and choose not to confront them in love with biblical truth, I just don't get it. Mike and Cyndi, Jeff and Kim are not the only ones teaching this doctrine within the unity group. To me it's black and white if you don't make a stand against it, then your silence is standing for it. Buddy's wife.

So interesting that Pastor Mike says in Sundays sermon that He has planted 5 churches???? Skagit yes 1. Surigao yes 2. Lebanon no 0 (lebanon was a Church of God church that shut down and reopened as TP- No one and no church was planted in Lebanon, it already exisited). I count 2 - it would be 3 with TPCWOC. Does Mike exagerate or what? He also metioned 50 or 60 graduates of SOMA???? hmmmmmmm lets see if we can name all 60? 2005 1st year - Cyndi Villamor, Jeff Barnes, Jackie Singer, Jeff Moors, David Luster, Justin Mcmahan, Triana Lantz, Cathy Shaw, and Christine Gutenkauf. Daphne Schlect, Kim Barnes. = 12
2006 Sean Cannell, Eryn Moors, Kari Lewis, Becky Davidson, Laurie Worden Funmi Sheddy, Megan Minnick. = 7
Nathan Klein, Michael Carey, Rochelle Carey, Angela Couch, Spencer Hirst, Stephanie Richmond,
Emily Masten, Dan Masten, Bobby Masten, Jon Jensen, Mark Klein, Darci Cartas, Judi Johnston, Nicole Couch, Jesse Tillman, Shaun Sheddy, Katie Mulder, Brenden Keene, Matt Adler, Peter Lantz, Mellanie Luster, Megan Wright, Jon wright, Chris Wright, I know there are 4 or 5 more... that equals 47- Sorry Mike you are wrong on both counts, church planting and SOMA grads. How many graduated last year 5 or 6? It has been a continual downhill spiral since the first year. Mike says he always hated inacurate reporting, yet he is the most guilty of all.
Does anyone know why Jeff Moors hasnt been around. He has only attended 1 or 2 Sundays in the last 7 weeks???? And by the way what is up with him? Another Deacon resigned. Mike said his marriage and family couldnt stand up to the scrutiny and slander so he needs to step down and concentrate on being the Apostle. That's an interseting picture isnt it? Isnt that what the sabbatical was for, to get marriage counseling and get his family life right, because if an elder cant manage his own family what business does he have managing the church. Is TP going to rebuild with Jeff Barnes at the helm. Such a loving and pastor and I guess he now holds the office of pastor on UGM. there is not one voice on that board that isnt intrically involved in a church of TP.
Also, with no disrespect meant to Pastor Jackie or to bring up hurt, but wasnt Pastor Mike and Pastor Jeff Barnes Jackie's mom pastors for over 10 years? Did either one show up for the memorial, to be there for Jeff Moors or even to show their respect to Mrs. Royal who gave her time, life and money to tp. She was the sweetest little old woman we have ever met. Sad state of affairs when the church cant put aside differences and greive for a woman of God together. Where is the love, where is the unity? Makes quite a statement doesnt it when you only have a couple of TP staff there at the memorial.
Seems as tho there is something ringing not so true about all of the stuff happening at TP- once again who can you trust? can you take the elders at their word? I think not, this has been proven in the past. Ask them if they lied, just ask them. Listen with your heart to their response. Will they answer a question with a question? Like "why are you asking that" Time is short and I wonder if God is pleased with His servants at TP?

I hate to chime in here and I do not know the facts about the church plants. I am just a theological dummy right now but it seems to me that if Captain Mike did't go to these areas, spend a significant amount of time with the community (actually living there), and physically be a part of getting the church going then is he really an apostle and does he really take credit for any church plants. I thought the apostles traveled over many areas, living with the communities, and overseeing the start of a church. And when did it ever become a church plant of TPWOC and not just a church planted. So i am not sure if the Captain is personnally taking credit for these or if he is giving his home church community the credit for it. Actually God gets the credit but you know what i mean. And really, my thoughts are if he truly was an apostle would he really even have time to preach at his home church. If he were truly an apostle i would think he would be gone all the time and just coming back for rest. Just some things that I just say Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.....to.

To correct myself, i have listed 44 names, I believe there are only 2 or 3 more. Sorry for the inacuracy which I am sure Mike is on here counting. And Whatajoke, you are so correct in assuming that Mike has not spent any real time with these other churches except maybe the Surigao one, where he has gone on mission trips maybe 3 or 4 time and spending 10 days or less with the people. I believe Mike and Cyndi combined have only visited the Skagit church plant a total of 4 times in 17 months? hmmmm and so geographically close too. Do the Skagit Valley church even know who their apostle and prophet are? Is there relationship there, so he could come and severely correct them like he talked about Paul doing to the Corinthians, although we all know he severely rebuked the staff of TP telling them they didnt love well and they were the reason the church wasnt growing. People!!!! ask about that! Again, I say sad state of affairs apostle Mike. He really does need to stop exargerating his position. Sadly he didnt fill the role as pastor well, him or his wife. The people really never did feel loved. I believe someone else spent a great deal of their time convincing the flock, staff, deacons and even elders that he loved and cared for them in his own way. He is mocking God at this point, and fortunately and unfortunately for all God's children, God will not be mocked. Peace out fellow sheep!

Learning Point, hollar at me when your box has room.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2010 12:17PM by TurningPointReject.