Is the Catholic Church a cult? If not why not? How do you define cult?
Posted by:
lelectra
()
Date: August 08, 2008 05:15AM
For that matter why are any number of mainstream religions spared the cult label? Can anyone enlighten me?
Re: Is the Catholic Church a cult? If not why not? How do you define c
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: August 08, 2008 09:33PM
lelectra:
No.
The Catholic Church is not a "cult."
But your question is commonly used by people that are cult members, sympathetic to cults, that generally want to obfuscate the cult issue.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton, who wrote the definitive book about thought reform (often called "brainwashing") also wrote a paper about cult formation. Lifton defined a cult as having the following three characteristics:
1. A charismatic leader, who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power.
2. A process [is in use] call[ed] coercive persuasion or thought reform.
3. Economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie.
Cults are most often rigidly totalitarian and not democratic.
The Pope is elected.
And the Pope is not revered like Rev. Moon as a "messiah," nor like David Koresh was as the "lamb of God."
God, Jesus, the bible and the sacraments are the defining elements and the central focus of the Catholic Church.
Roman Catholics often disagree on various doctrines and edicts, but are not excommunicated and cut off for disagreements, e.g. some go to confessions, some do not, some use birth control and some do not.
Cult members cannot disagree with the leader. They are subjected to thought reform, which produces a rigid mindset typically lacking in critical thinking, obedient without exceptions and conforming to the will of the leader.
Abuse within cults (e.g. child abuse in the "Children of God") was systemic and taught as an article of faith by the leader.
Clergy abuse within the Catholic Church was never taught as an article of faith, nor systemic in this sense. Instead, it was done by individual priests.
Likewise, the cover-up over clergy abuse within the Catholic Church was not mandated as a sacrament and taught as a religious observance, but rather a failed policy employed by individual bishops.
Within cult groups like Children of God and the Waco Davidians, child abuse was practiced as a matter of faith, as handed down by the leader and covering it up was systemic policy taught and promoted per the leader's instructions throughout the group.
These examples illustrate the stark contrast between mainstream religion such as the Catholic Church and groups called "cults."
But you are probably not here to learn anything through earnest questions, but rather hope to simply disrupt this message board.
No.
The Catholic Church is not a "cult."
But your question is commonly used by people that are cult members, sympathetic to cults, that generally want to obfuscate the cult issue.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton, who wrote the definitive book about thought reform (often called "brainwashing") also wrote a paper about cult formation. Lifton defined a cult as having the following three characteristics:
1. A charismatic leader, who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power.
2. A process [is in use] call[ed] coercive persuasion or thought reform.
3. Economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie.
Cults are most often rigidly totalitarian and not democratic.
The Pope is elected.
And the Pope is not revered like Rev. Moon as a "messiah," nor like David Koresh was as the "lamb of God."
God, Jesus, the bible and the sacraments are the defining elements and the central focus of the Catholic Church.
Roman Catholics often disagree on various doctrines and edicts, but are not excommunicated and cut off for disagreements, e.g. some go to confessions, some do not, some use birth control and some do not.
Cult members cannot disagree with the leader. They are subjected to thought reform, which produces a rigid mindset typically lacking in critical thinking, obedient without exceptions and conforming to the will of the leader.
Abuse within cults (e.g. child abuse in the "Children of God") was systemic and taught as an article of faith by the leader.
Clergy abuse within the Catholic Church was never taught as an article of faith, nor systemic in this sense. Instead, it was done by individual priests.
Likewise, the cover-up over clergy abuse within the Catholic Church was not mandated as a sacrament and taught as a religious observance, but rather a failed policy employed by individual bishops.
Within cult groups like Children of God and the Waco Davidians, child abuse was practiced as a matter of faith, as handed down by the leader and covering it up was systemic policy taught and promoted per the leader's instructions throughout the group.
These examples illustrate the stark contrast between mainstream religion such as the Catholic Church and groups called "cults."
But you are probably not here to learn anything through earnest questions, but rather hope to simply disrupt this message board.
Re: Is the Catholic Church a cult? If not why not? How do you define cult?
Posted by:
Pincled
()
Date: August 08, 2008 09:47PM
I would like to find out why religion, in any form, bothers you as a cult-- since membership in any Christian group/denomination is voluntary (in the Christian church, it is to establish 'free will' membership according to Jesus' own statement and it's membership is free, despite the organized church's interest in 'charging dues', which is it's own design, not a part of Christianity per se).
Were you a member of a very strict church?
I have attended a variety of churches and found that you cannot judge God or Christ by it's members. If you want to practice a religion or Christianity simply shop around until you find what fits. No matter how you decide it--all clubs have their membership rules (even becoming a doctor one must abide by the Hypocratic Oath, social services has its bylaws for clients, the Bar Association for attorneys and the examples could be endless. There truly is no anarchistic movement today since even this group--really a reaction in the 1930's--had its rules of membership.)
I do hope to hear from you.
Were you a member of a very strict church?
I have attended a variety of churches and found that you cannot judge God or Christ by it's members. If you want to practice a religion or Christianity simply shop around until you find what fits. No matter how you decide it--all clubs have their membership rules (even becoming a doctor one must abide by the Hypocratic Oath, social services has its bylaws for clients, the Bar Association for attorneys and the examples could be endless. There truly is no anarchistic movement today since even this group--really a reaction in the 1930's--had its rules of membership.)
I do hope to hear from you.
Re: Is the Catholic Church a cult? If not why not? How do you define c
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: August 08, 2008 11:02PM
Pincled:
What is your purpose posting at this message board?
You seem to be spamming the board.
Do you just want to argue?
Many of your posts are off topic and have not been approved.
Read "FAQ"--the working definition used regarding "cults" is about behavior not belief.
Your response here is barely on topic.
What is your purpose posting at this message board?
You seem to be spamming the board.
Do you just want to argue?
Many of your posts are off topic and have not been approved.
Read "FAQ"--the working definition used regarding "cults" is about behavior not belief.
Your response here is barely on topic.
Re: Is the Catholic Church a cult? If not why not? How do you define cult?
Posted by:
billiesue
()
Date: September 09, 2008 12:13PM
Quote
lelectra
For that matter why are any number of mainstream religions spared the cult label? Can anyone enlighten me?
lelectra the answer is ... we humans fear and can be intimidated by differences in circumstances and ways of thinking. Be true to yourself and create a relationship with the universal and inner source that gives you joy and touches your heart. We are all one and we are light and eternal beings. Who you believe in, that magical thought that gives you joy, whether it be God, Jesus, Buddha, Jehovah or Mohammad...will lead you in the right direction. We are surrounded by love and we ought to emulate love. Accept yourself and I'll accept myself. Tune out the noise, and listen for the silence. The voice from within speaks to all of us. I was raised a Catholic and I believe in Jesus, and I happen to feel that Jesus is the best example of love ever. That does not mean I believe there are not other ways of exploring human love and connectedness. I do not want to "fit in" or be "brainwashed" by anyone or anything. I say read voraciously, find time for you to be silent and develop the relationship from inside out and do not listen to outside noise. No other human being knows you like you do. NO ONE! If we all practice acceptance peace is the final answer.
Re: Is the Catholic Church a cult? If not why not? How do you define c
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: September 09, 2008 08:09PM
billiesue:
Please avoid preaching.
Please avoid preaching.
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