'Jody' please have the courtesy not to put words into my mouth and concentrate on what I have said.

1) Christadelphians are in no way 'elite' - and they do not consider themselves to be 'special' in any way.

They are indeed Conscientious Objectors (as were / are the likes of the Quakers etc) based on scruptural principles and for which many are/were persecuted in different countries.

2) Whilst John Thomas was their 'founder' they do not, as do Roman Catholics, Christian Scientists; Muslims etc. believe that the worship / 'infallibility of the writings / sayings of anyone to be holy / inspired other than Biblical ones.

3) I do not, nor do Christadelphians in general believe that 'six billion of us are excluded from God's love and mercy and redemption simply because we have failed to become Christadelphians...' that is an entirely incorrect representation. They do believe that belief and adult baptism (by complete immersion) following a 'good confession ' of the 'things concerning the Kingdom of God' are essential to 'salvation' but that at the Judgement without the infinitie love and mercy and forgiveness of God eternal life would ever be any of their's by right - nor do they believe that only Christadelphians will be saved.

It is easy to criticise from a position of ignorance / misunderstanding rather than from a factual one.

Every month there are members who leave the Christadelphians who would also agree that they have only ever been dealt with sympathetically and caringly - sadly, there will be exceptions and that is wrong.

Andy, you are the one who is not hearing.

1. Christadelphians believe only followers of their narrow doctrinal beliefs can receive salvation. How much more "special" can they believe themselves to be?

2. I never stated John Thomas and his teachings are presented as being infallible. I stated Christadelphians, like most cults, had a central charismatic figure, and John Thomas was that figure.

3. My position of "ignorance" is derived from eighteen years of attendance in your meetings. If anyone else in Christendom is expected to achieve salvation on Judgement Day, it's news to me. I was taught everyone else in Christendom (outside of Christadelphianism) is lost, and many Christadelphians, as you posit, will also be found unworthy on that Day. I guess the six billion human beings on the planet are intended only as background scenery for the lives of Christadelphians....

The "good confession" you mention as being required prior to baptism, well, it is a "good confession" of your sect's teachings that is expected. Otherwise, the baptisms into your faith don't occur.

Christadelphianism is rigid, exclusionary, and elitist in these ways I have described. There is little doctrinal malleability, and little malleability in terms of many of the rules for behavior.

Jody,

It is no more 'exclusive' than most other denominations who expect agreement with their teachings and ways of life - so why single out Christadelphians? - it just seems that you are being more cross with them than objective.

The Pope is the central 'Charasmatic figure' of the Roman Catholics; Mary Baker Eddy of the Christian Scientists; The Archbishop of Canterbury for the Anglicans; Mohammed for the Muslims etc. etc. etc - when for all of them it should be the Lord God and his son Jesus Christ.

Christadelphians are clear that it is only at the Judgement that 'judgement' will take place - like many other religions and sects they believe that their interpretation of the Bible is as close to Truth as it can be and I am clear that such doctrines as the Trinity, the immortal soul and purgatory, to name but a few, can not be found in the Bible.

The Bible is clear in the high standards it lays down and so it is right that there is little scope for 'doctrinal malleability' - the Truth is just that, the truth. IF as it states the Bible is the wholly inspired word of God then how can we justify seening to mould it to make us feel more comfortable?

I am sure that this probably will do nothing to change your view but, believe me, many Christadelphians really struggle with their faith but believe that despite all our human weaknesses and frailties God really does understand them and what is in our hearts and minds and that He will in his great mercy forgive our sins and failings.

AndrewM1:

What other Christian churches would Christadelphians openly acknowledge by name as correct enough doctrinally in their teachings to be sufficiently Christian therefore saved?

Please be very specific, e.g. United Presbyterian, Southern Baptist, Evangelical Free Church, Disciples of Christ, etc.

For example Southern Baptists would not deny that other evangelical churches outside of their denomination have the same spiritual and essential doctrinal standing as Christians.

Was John Thomas elected democratically by a clerical group like the Pope and Archbishop of Canterbury? Did he fulfill a tradition and succeed a previous leader?

What churches have you heard discussed within the Christadelphian church as a place where people can be equally spiritually fed?

Please answer these questions.

There are a number of other groups holding very similar beliefs to the Christadelphians - incidentally there are various groups called 'Christadelphians' but who are divided on some matters of doctrine.

Christadelphians do not believe that being 'saved' has anything to do with belonging to a particular group but by obeying the commands of God - fellowship is something that ought to be seen as a coming together of like-minded believers in order to spiritually strengthen each other on the walk to the Kingdom.

Just as with many other groups no John Thomas was not 'democratically elected' - and the early groups (called ecclesias) were each responsible for their own conduct - referred to as 'ecclesial autonomy' - a principle that remains today. The 'umbrella' Statement of Faith amongst Christadelphians in Central Fellowship is called the Birmingham Amended Statement of Faith.

I am sure that all churches would regard themselves as spiritually feeding their flocks - but if the food is contaminated then it is is of limited value.

AndrewM1:

You are parsing your language and being somewhat evasive.

Please answer the questions.

Who are the "like-minded believers" that you would recognize as spiritually equal to your religious group?

Please name another church specifically and/or denomination outside of your own, such as American Baptist Convention, Assemblies of God, Missouri Synod Lutherans, etc.

Thank you for pointing out that John Thomas was not elected. Was he a self-proclaimed leader then? Was he accountable to a board of elders elected by the congregation?

It is not my responsibility to judge other groups and so I will decline to answer further other than to state that I have no doubts at all that there will be many others who are not Christadelphians in the Kingdom but I believe that Christadelphians are nearer to God's 'truth' than any other group.

Christadelphians have no equivalent to a Pope / Archbishop etc. - they are all 'Lay' Members elected by their separate ecclesias to undertake certain specified duties. Each ecclesias is, as stated before, responsible for itself but each are in fellowship with every other who uphold their Statement of Faith.

AndrewM1:

You "decline to answer further"?

You are not here for a discussion, but rather as an apologist, only attempting to spin for your group.

But you have now run out of spin.

Your vague response that "many others" will somehow be included "in the Kingdom" without naming any church specifically demonstrates this.

But your statement, "that Christadelphians are nearer to God's 'truth' than any other group" proves Jody's point, which is "Christadelphianism is rigid, exclusionary, and elitist..."

And it seems that John Thomas fits within the criteria of a "central charismatic figure..." as pointed out by Jody.

Thanks for making these points evident on a public message board where anyone interested can read it.

You will, of course, equally acknowledge that vast numbers of other faiths / denominations hold exactly the same position! The Roman Catholics very much would and also place the words of the Pope as being infallible - something that Christadelphians find no biblical evidence for at all but as he is (and not democratically at all) 'elected' I suppose that is OK is it?

You really ought to examine your own bias / prejudice and ask "am I being equally fair to all other groups?" - because you most certainly are not.

AndrewM1:

You decided to come onto this message board to spin apologies for your group.

No--"that vast numbers of other faiths /denominations [don't] hold exactly the same position!"

Quite the opposite.

The overwhelming majority of Christians, Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, acknowledge each other in equal fellowship on basic beliefs and salvation. They may have doctrinal differences, but not sufficient to deny another Christian or church salvation.

It seems that the Christadelphians fit within a minority of religious groups, such as Jehovah's Witnesses, United Pentecostal Church International and Mormons, who see themselves as somehow spiritually superior.

This can readily be seen as a "bias/prejudice".