We all make mistakes Truth Seeker, even in our personal lives. Unfortunately, all of us tend to forget Pastors and Leaders are only human too even if they do hold an upright position. I actually read in the bible before I entered this site that God told us to obey those he puts in leadership, even when we think they are wrong, because GOD will have his way with them. And, my Pastor always encourages me to read my bible for answers if I don’t understand things or question certain ideas he may have. When I look back at the whole situation now, I think about how great GOD is that he gave us his Word, the Spirit of Truth. It’s a hard walk the Christian walk and yes, sometimes we tend to forget about our salvation, our personal lives and concentrate too much on the Work of GOD, which all in all, requires balance. Because all of us have been affected (in my church), we are never turned away if we have something to question. Whether it’s something the Pastor has said or somebody else, we’ve been taught (and with GOD’s grace and meditating with him) that it’s not wrong to do this you know? We’re not turned away anymore like how we use to be. Maybe that's what everyone needs to remind themselves of including myself.
This paragraph popped out to me.
Are you trying to tell us that you must continue submit to your pastor even if he is wrong or in sin?
So, if your pastor decides to murder someone, he still should be regarded as a pastor and you should still submit to him? I know it sounds extreme, but your statement bears this out.
And to think that you are suppose to let "God will have his way them" is to me a cop out.
It is quite disturbing you think this way.
A Truth Seeker
I'll state first thing that my experience contradicts all that is being said. I attend The Door Christian Center in Fairfield CA. They are very passionate about people's salvation. We outreach most Saturday's and give our testimonies to all (believers & non-believers) In no shape or form have I seen scare tactics being utilized at any of these events. If telling people that salvation comes through our Lord Jesus Christ and denying him will result in an undesirable outcome are we lying? Are we using scare tactics or are we stating the "TRUTH" as stated in our Bible. Now, I am not doubting peoples experience at other affiliated churches. However, most of your forum(s) state that this network of churches is evil or very distorted. If that is the truth then I haven't seen it. Programming or Deprogramming doesn't mean anything. Either way you look at it it is forcing one to believe other than what they already believe in. Wouldn't deprogramming also constitute as a form of programming. Shouldn't we call it "reprogramming" instead? We also have to take into accountability the mental capacity of many of the offended family members and disassociated members. The Bible constantly calls on discipline of its people and structure with in the Body of Christ. I read earlier of a 14 year old boy who gave up drugs for his church (Potter's House). Now his mother wants him deprogrammed. Please make me understand this? I can't help but laugh at the irony of that story. For those that left the church I understand that they fully believe in their cause for parting their ways with the church but whatever happened with loyalty to those above them. The same mentality for the lack of loyalty to structure will result in the same situation elsewhere. Just like divorce, if you divorce your first wife the chances of your 2nd marriage ending in the same result rises twice as much. I believe its only fair to state the other side of this conflict.
Parishioner of the Door Christian Center - Fairfield CA
Hi Truth Seeker,
Not at all! I hope and pray that [b:2b51f25f41][i:2b51f25f41]that[/i:2b51f25f41][/b:2b51f25f41]would never happen! No, I merely pointed out that our Pastor got what he deserved and he will be judged on Judgement Day for all the hurts and destructiveness he caused through his arrogance.
What I am saying is that our relationship with GOD is what matters most. Although we are given Pastors to oversee us, to help guide us, we should always question the things we don't understand and I know that the decision you have made to leave the church was for the interest of your own salvation and that's awesome to know that at that time, you made a choice that you knew GOD wanted you to make and honoured you for that.
I didn't mean for you to read so much into this, but my quote you have used is actually based on my current Pastor. My former Pastor caused alot of grief and despair for fellow church members that most of them, if not all, have turned away from GOD because of the confusion they felt when all those things occurred.
My new Pastor is a man who encourages us to question things we donot understand and I hope that you donot take offence to my reply as I didn't mean to cause this on you.
Without meaningful accountability to the congregation through democratic church government bad behavior often occurs.
The more layers of accountability and democratic process there is, the safer a congregation typically is.
This includes democratically elected church boards that can discipline and if necessary fire a pastor for bad conduct. Such a board would also set his or her salary and compensation.
Elected denominational leaders through delegates sent to conferences typically helps to hold the denomination accountable to the churches.
Denominational accredited education and seminary requirements for pastors seems to prevent problems.
Financial transparency through annually audited and published budgets that reflect all monies paid out such as salaries and any expenses or compensation.
Without safeguards like this church members have no meaningful structure or bylaws to guarantee anything.
Simply saying "God will hold them accountable" is not enough. And the bible provides basic guidelines for accountability (deacons, elders and evenagleists) that can be expanded upon to meet modern concerns today.
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
The major Baptist denominations, Assemblies of God, Evangelical Free Church, Nazarenes and others seem to have get this and have substantial layers of accountability.
No organization is perfect and there are still problems, but many large evangelical denominations recognize the need for accountability, financial transparency and an accredited education for their clergy.