About 66% of all Amerindians share a common male ancestor identified by the M3 Y-chromosome. M3 is not found in Siberia except a small area of the Chuktoka peninsula adjacent to Alaska where it is generally believed to be the result of Alaska to Siberia migration of recent date. Recently a mutation called M242 was found to be ancestral to M3 and was used to put an upper limit on the migration to America. M242 is concentrated in Central Asia (region just north of Iran). It is also found in the Middle East (Iran & Turkey) and Europe (eastern Russia). This finding has forced mainstream science to modify their migration theories to make Central Asia rather than Siberia the point of origin for the first Americans. Furthermore, it has provided a close link between Europeans and Amerindians via the M45/M75 marker. The two lines are
M45-M75-M242-M3 for Amerindians and
M45-M75-M207-M173 for Europeans
This also opens the way for Mormons to claim that an M242 bearer in the Middle East fathered the first M3 who then led a group including his six sons to America.

There is no historical evidence to support the so-called "Book of Mormon" written by Joseph Smith.

No history department (outside of BYU) or any serious archaeologist uses it for anything other than an example of a religious writing.

No Nephite, Jaradite or Lamanite (peoples described in Smith's "Book of Mormon") artifact has ever been found, And there is nothing to demonstrate these fictional creations concocted by Smith ever existed.

See the following links and note what scientists say about DNA:

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

Mormans may believe as a "matter of faith" Smith's book, but history is not a matter of faith, it's a matter of proof.

There is nothing to prove the "Book of Mormon" other than the spin of Mormon apologists, but spin is no substitute for substance.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the Native American's ancestors were from Mongolia and Far Eastern Russia. Especially the Eskimos of northern Canada and Alaska.

These girls are Amerindians, but they could be Southern Chinese or Thai.
[www.asu.edu][/img]

I believe the ongoing discussions being held between FARMS (the Mormon science arm of LDS) and the Christians and scientists are important as they continue to refute the scientifically couched objections FARMS comes up with regarding DNA that simply don't stand up to modern scientific scrutiny. I have the pleasure of being part of a group of Christians from that are scientists (even though I am not) and I enjoy watching them refute FARMS assertions regarding this subject.

To find Jewish and American Indian genetic links, go to Ysearch and check out the Q-P36 modals for Ashkenazi Jews, Native Americans, and Norse Q.

[www.ysearch.org]

In 1996 Stanford researchers led by Peter Underhill PhD calculated the age of the primary native American lineage Q-M3 at 2147 years before present (BP).(Underhill 1996) He used an observed Y mutation rate of 2.1 per 1,000. Underhill did not accept this date because it did not fit the big picture as he saw it. However, a distinction must be made between the findings of science and the conclusions of scientists. This young age for M3 remained a problem for years.

Eventually, an "effective" mutation rate of 0.7 per 1,000 was calculated for Maoris and Gypsies. Applying this to American Indians gives a lower limit of ~10,000 years BP. (Zegura 2004) However, the bottom line is this. Even if the "effective" mutation rate was calculated correctly for Maoris, it may not be applicable to American Indians. Observed rates run as high as 2.8 per 1,000 and higher. (Kayser 2000). At the end of the day, most American Indians could still be descended from a man who lived little more than 2,000 years ago.

Furthermore, this guy would have belonged to the Q-P36 lineage group. Q-P36 a.k.a. M242 is found in 5% of Iraqi Jews and 5% of Ashkenazi Jews (Shen 2004). About 15% of Yemeni Jews belong to a branch of Q-P36 called Q-M323. (Shen 2004)

A recent study (Zegura 2004) is cited on the web page of Rich Deem as "proof" that DNA evidence refutes the Book of Mormon. This is comical because Zegura's work is a gold mine of data that supports the Book of Mormon when the actual findings are seperated from the conclusions of Zegura. Zegura, of course, has a right to his own opinions. However, Deem appears to have cut and pasted Zegura's summary and altered a few words. Where Zegura says "...most haplogroup R lineages present in Native Americans most likely came from recent admixture with Europeans", Deem says "...R was found to come from recent admixture with Europeans".

What was actually found was that a lot of American Indians have west Eurasian lineages. Along with R, there was E3b, J, G, F and I. All of these as well as Q-P36 are found in modern Jewish populations. In other words about one third of American Indian males who believe themselves to be of full-blooded pre-Columbian origin and were accepted as such for genetic study belong to lineages commonly found in Modern Jews. Most of the remaining belong to Q-M3 that is derived from Q-P36.

Note also that a much higher percentage of Native Americans have West Eurasian lineage than the sample group in Zegura's study. (Hammer 2005) THose with known European ancestors were screened out.

I think it is still possible to be a mormon. I am still a christian even though the evidence is lacking for genisis style creation. You just can't take scripture literaly.

The difference is there is not a single historical artifact to prove anything in the Book of Mormon.

There were no Lamanites, Nephites etc.

No history department at any college uses it for anything with the exception of perhaps BYU.

It is a work of fiction.

It is clear from the total lack of detailed evidence in your posts that you know nothing about the DNA research relating to American Indians and Jews. Since you are so ill-equiped to argue on this subject, why do you insist on posting? Who do you think your'e fooling? So far, none of you have been able to provide even the most feeble explanation as to why Jews and Native Americans share the Q-P36 lineage.

See [www.culteducation.com]

This article in the LA Times explains, though I am sure you won't accept anything but the LDS party line.

Also see [www.culteducation.com]

Rick Ross

Quote
DougTheAvenger
It is clear from the total lack of detailed evidence in your posts that you know nothing about the DNA research relating to American Indians and Jews. Since you are so ill-equiped to argue on this subject, why do you insist on posting? Who do you think your'e fooling? So far, none of you have been able to provide even the most feeble explanation as to why Jews and Native Americans share the Q-P36 lineage.

You might find it interesting that the language of the Navaho appears to have a link with languages near the Black Sea.

A question that comes up for me is whether or not you are excluding the Sephardic Jews from your categorization of "Jews".

From what I can tell you are using evidence from studies linking Ashkenazi Jews to Indians as to proof for Mormon myths. Are the Sephardim included in this body of evidence?

If not, then the evidence is irrelevant to the argument for the immigration of ancient Hebrews to the Americas as the Ashkenazi appear to have adopted Judiaism well after the birth of Christ.

If you include the Sephardim in the evidence; then you might have an argument.