well to those who know me..and those who dont....I think I have come to peace with myself about the cult I was in...after seeing a therapist and taking apart the cultic ideas one by one. well I feel like me again! however a wiser, more skeptical me.

the controversial thing I wanted to ask.... is after this backround info.

(disclaimer note: I am not sharing this with an agenda to preach in any way, but to share of my journey as I dealt with my own recovery)

well it started with totally redefining my notion of God...or no god.
I tried being athiest...I really wanted to be..and I envied you who could just say there is no god. Unfortunately ..or fortunately ..not sure which.. I have a belief in God that "I just know" which many athiests seem to hate that sentance....well I guess either you believe or you dont is what it boils down to. However, neither belief or lack there of, in my view, is wrong..just like different personality types

Anyway so I tried being athiest.....did not work ..so I just stood at bay from my God. Then I experiemented with different beliefs....I took a religion class at college..learned alot about the majority of religions. I then decided to look for "truths" in each religion and discard the rest.
this worked...I decided to search for things that show up in all religions...or at least most religions and concentrate on that. Well that helped me some in my quest for where I belong. I then wrote a paper compairing and contrasting old testiment Christianity with Wicca for my religion class term paper.....mostly for kicks...lol testing the limits of conservatism. :D
then I really became fond of some of the Wiccan ideals of nature and the goddess. so I checked it out for a few months..and decided that the ideals are great ..but the rituals are boring and I refused to join a coven or any organized form of religion. So I took what I felt to be true and continued to move on with my search.

so what is the controversial question? after examining all these religions, and dabbling in some while running from others...I decided that I dont fully fit in ANY religion..but I, however, have a belief is some higher being of sorts. So I have been thinking..is it wrong to just compose my own religion based on my personal beliefs of what is truth to only me. Of course....this is to be my religion not to be shared, preached or taught to anyone else. Just my own journey to what I believe in my heart of hearts. Is that wrong?? I know its a strange thought, but is it in anyway inmoral??


any info would be greatly appericated...and again ..I am in no way trying to preach or proclaim...just questioning


best wishes 8)
JoAnne

Hi JoAnne,

After reading your post it occured to me that that is exactly what I have been doing. Being raised in a Nazarene church, I noticed somethings that I did not agree with in their theology. For my faith I have taken bits and pieces from other religions and put them together to form my own beliefs. I don't think this is wrong and I don't think it is immoral to have a faith that is all your own. If you truly believe in your heart of hearts that this is right for you thats fine. Good for you for not comforming!!

I would be interested to know some of the things you believe though...possibly to add them to my beliefs...if you feel like sharing, please don't feel that you have to but i would be interested to know!

:D Star

Star ..I feel like ...I dunno....like not such a weirdo after all

well since you want to know what I believe.....and with absolutely no presure for you to conform..these are just my beliefs ..but if you wish I share ..I dont mind.

I believe in reincarnation...but not like the hindus or the Budhists..I believe I just continue in one life to the next ..gaining wisdom in each lifetime..forever..not untill I reach nirvanna. because for me it just makes sence all life has cycles..so I feel that my soul goes in cycles too

I believe in Karma again unlike other Karmatic religions..I dont believe that karma will punish or reward me in the next life, but in this life I have now..and those who do harm to me..I have seen bad things happen to them... so I equate my theory of Karma to the wiccan rede " what one sends out, comes back by three, if no harm done, mote it be (or so be it)" that is the Wiccan rede...well and that basicly means what I do comes back to me..3 times regardless of good or bad...and it it does not harm anyone (even myself) then it is moral. again I am not telling you to believe this..but this is what I believe in my heart of hearts

a God and a Goddess....again it just makes sence to me ..all nature has male and female..even asexual beings like plankton have male and female parts....so I questioned the whole single male god thing.

to me I believe in listening to my gutt feelings on things...instead of other people.

I believe in psychic abilities....but I also believe that it is a gift and people should not take money or use it for fame..but I believe psychic abilities can not be controled like telepsychics claim to do..but that these messages are just the subconsious piecing together data from regular senses that I consciously am not paying attention to....I have had strange hunches that something is about to happen and it does...but I think that people claiming to be psychics are really just actors with selected actors in the audience. Most of my pshychic hunches were about me and my family.....never about a stranger unless it pertained to my gutt feeling about thier character...but even then I have been fooled. So I believe that psychic abilities are a personal thing not something to mass market

I believe that the earth has a spirit and so do plants, animals and other natrual things..including the sun, stars and other planets. I gained this belief by how I feel in the woods or on a prarie or in a desert....something about nature feels sacred to me. Ever since I was young...when I wanted to get close to the divine....I go out in this woods by my house....it was the holiest place I knew. the way the light filitered through the trees and shimered on the leaves and the way the forest seemed to radiate with energy. I think I was native american in my past life time..many of my core beliefs reflect that

I believe art is a powerful healing tool.....expecialy mental health...I gained this from when I was 16 and I was going from one mental hospital to the next...(I have brain injury) and while I was in one of them I learned to draw and how to write poetry and it gave me a voice to speak how I truley felt and I got out and never went to long term mental treatment again..later I picked up a book called " the artists way" it was a book on how creative energy basicly is the food of the soul....I truely believe it is.... matter of fact there is a whole school of thought on that called "art theraphy" a new branch of psychology.

I believe that true love is not romance...but a conscious desision of devotion like a mother loves a child or a child loves a grand parrent...I believe that true love is a mutual desision like that ..not based on emotions or warm fuzzies or passion. I believe that will be they key for me to have a happy marroage should I ever marry

I believe some people are just inherently evil.....like black holes..suck all energy and life of people around them ...like cult leaders, abusive parrents, sociopaths, and psychopathic killers and such people in that category....I believe that they are not "disturbed" well they may be that too but I believe they are evil reincarnative spirits with no inner life of thier own so they have to steal it from others....I got that tid bit from Silvia Brown...who is probably cultish..but that thoery explains how people can do the things they do to others...nothing else I know of can

I believe in staying in tune with the cycles of life..I think that the moon phases and times of day as well as certain herbs and foods has spiritual effects on me. I also believe that the many cycles in life....rain cycles, earth rotation and earth revolutions, life and death of plants animals and people, the food chain, and many interconected biocycles of natrual recycling are very imortant and are sacred I must try not to interupt....except when it is nessisary like medical care to prolong life and promote well being.

I believe that humor is the key to a long life and good heath and I have heard stories about people who were beyond hope with cancer and renting funny movies and funny email and doing it all day for weeks laughing thier way back to recovery....however...I just heard this...I did not see it with my own eyes..so it is questionable...but humor has helped me through some tough times

Most of all, I learned from my cult experience...to never fully trust anyone, never put anyone on a pedalstil, always question what I hear someone proclaim as truth and most of all ....never put blind faith in anyone or anything. A good sign of cultic thinking is when someone proclaims to have ALL the answers, and absoluteism *meaning people or ideas that say that thiers is only one truth, because not everyone can fit in the same criteria of needs, wants and beliefs. And that is the only thing I do ask you to consiter.

seek your own truth, your own heart and your own mind...no one has all the asnwers....and no one can answer for you and if they do ...walk away and not come back.


good luck on your journey

JoAnne

Nativeflower, I totally understand where you are coming from. Formally a very "spiritual" person, I'm in a sort of "aethiest" stage right now as a reaction both my cult experience and so much pain, cruelty and total disregard for science that I see in both New Age circles and Chrisitianity. I am moving more and more away from any spiritual beliefs towards a sort of rational secular humanism, an ethic based on the principles of kindness, mutual support of our fellow humans, civic and environmental responsibilty, and respect for each individual's freedom to choose the life that is best for them. You don't need to believe in God or be "spiritual" to believe in these things. More and more all I see is the harm people inflict on one another in the name God, or Bhudda, or The Source, or the The Goddess, or Wicca, or the Eradication of The Ego, or whatever else you want to call it. And I have been thinking alot about how much abjecation of personal responsibility goes on in the service of the belief in God. I find it really disturbing.

I propose the question: If we remove the carrot on the stick; if we remove the superstition that there is a grand punishment or reward at The End meted out by God or the forces of Karma, if we eliminate the idea that we are being watched over by a benevolent Being, is it enough to just be kind to each other on this earth because this is the only life we have, and it's what makes sense to do? Is it enough to take care of each other and the earth because other people have to live here after we die? Can we choose to live responsibly simply because it makes life better for us in the here and now, without God in the picture?

leopardgirl,

Interesting question....I tried be athiest..but I cant ..somehow I just "know" thier is a divinity and a spiritual realm. Although athiests get agervated with people like me. I cant expain how or why I know

the only thing I can say is much like a brilliant man once said

The heart knows things that reason knows not

good luck

JoAnne

Thanks JoAnne!

I found your beliefs very interesting...a couple things I had never thought of before. I appreciate your willing spirit to share your beliefs. I might be asking your more questions as time goes on :D

Star

JoAnne, your journey sounds so much like mine. I think to an extent, everyone creates their own personal inner beliefs - whether they even realize it or not. Take any "mainstream" religious group... and take their own list of their doctrines and beliefs... and then try to find a single member who, when pressed, will honestly say that they agree with every single word of it. In my experience, that's not going to happen. I don't think there is anything wrong with deciding what you believe in your own mind and heart - what is right between you and whatever higher power you deal with - or don't. Even athiests believe in something - their belief, is that there is no God, see? :)

When you're a kid like I was, and you see everyone and everything you ever knew die for - or because of - or in spite of - their faith... you start to ask the hard questions about life, death, faith, and "God." Like you, I wished I could just put aside the notion of any higher power and live life without all of this complicated stuff that only seems to cause trouble. But through the years, growing up with the shadow of Mt. Carmel haunting me, there was always something, somewhere, in my mind that wouldn't let me truly believe that there is no God of any type. So like you, I spent years just trying to avoid the entire mess. Then I started researching. Massive amounts of research. I have an entire walk-in closet full of religious texts from various faiths. And I've read them all, extensively. I've been to every church/temple/place of worship in my city (which has a population over 4million).

Conclusion? I don't *fit* anywhere, and probably never will. But I found a couple of places I'm comfortable, and bounce around between those. People sometimes ask how I can reconcile the beliefs of different denominations as easily as I appear to do, and I just think to myself "honey that's the easy part, if only you knew what I went through to get where I am." :?

Good question

Likewise, when I'd left 'my' group I questioned such.

From my New Agey-hinduesque upbringing, to my brother's Bible based cult like group, and others, I've been around a lot of 'isms'

Years ago I'd decided that it doesn't really matter if reincarnation exists or not, if Jesus is the word of God, or Buddha or if there's a heaven or hell or anything after we die... I reconciled with the thought that the best I can do is live today with integrity, keep my word, give back in service however I can, take care of my family, & laugh readily with loved ones. Whatever 'afterlife' exists or not will take care of itself if I live by these values. Whatever God there is or is not, would approve. My peon brain is not capable of phathoming the constructs or meaning behind the cosmos. So, why bother?

My belief system is much the humanism that Leopardgirl describes, plus Nativeflower's definition of love. I live my spirituality by how I treat others, and conduct my work and personal life. No airy fairy fluff nor drama. Like the rest of us here, I've learned to be cautious, and less readily trusting of others. That is healthy & survivalist.

So, some buddhist friends say "Oh Toni, you're a buddhist, really!" and others say "You're a Mormon and don't know it"
Why the need to place a label? shrug.

Quote
Leopardgirl
I am moving more and more towards a sort of rational secular humanism, an ethic based on the principles of kindness, mutual support of our fellow humans, civic and environmental responsibilty, and respect for each individual's freedom to choose the life that is best for them.

Quote
nativeflower
I believe that true love is not romance...but a conscious desision of devotion like a mother loves a child or a child loves a grand parent...I believe that true love is a mutual desision like that ..not based on emotions or warm fuzzies or passion.

Nativeflower, Leopaqrd Girl, Toni, et al,


What wonderful heartful comments...

I was on the path before seeking "spirituality", spiritual stuff..new age crap...
until I lost a retail store, my house and most importantly...my true soul-mate, because of LEC..

But not to digress, I find a "supreme being(not necesarily male) in a healing wound, a woman's smile..a lovers touch, a child's curiosity (sp?) I don't require a building (funny how money seems so connected to this type of "social" event, isn't it?) to talk with or acquire awareness of her/his/it's (for lack of a better descriptive) existence.

Yeah, I like Yanni music but not new-age cultic - bordering crap .."I have the answer....after your check clears..." "come to Source....the answers are here" "cash, check or credit?"

I too feel that if you possess a true creator-given talent (such as medium, channel, etc) one should not charge for it but be given "tips" such as a good waitress who may not find me attractive but still serves the table in her best way possible, no matter what 's a-hap in the eatery that night....just IMO

IMO, every min, sec, day hour, etc we are bombarded by the "power group" in our countries to Shuffle-to, inhale this propoganda piece (described as "NEWS") AND def'ly pay those taxes to keep the perk people happy. The cult - technique users simply follow suit like the barricudas follow the other feeder fins..find what the "herd" is eating (accepting without logic) and FEED-IT-TO-THEM & then feed off of them!!!

Ok, it's a new month...but my point is..do we really need 5 million dollar buildings to keep-the-faith (or is it "keep-the-baby-Faith"?)

I have always felt that we humans are such an addictive sort by design...
food, sex, fast cars, tv, work, etc...the cutl-techniquers are just using what works with on the herds..watch how crocs do their thing, vultures, etc....we are members of a herd, so to speak..

Anyway, I felt that all your comments are Right On!

Peace

Wow very interesting stories ya'll have and I guess although I dont worship in a million dollar building or feeding tigers in a monisary or sit upside down and chant for hours...I have developed a connection to what I would call divine.. However I agree with the humanism view of life as a human with civil morals and life of dignity..however like Angela I could not shake the notion of a higher being outa my head.

sometimes I feel less evoilved comepared to humanists...maybe religion is a phase in human evolution...however I am a deeply sencitive person who feels pulsations in life that are beyond my 5 sences, I cant ingore that.
but I congradualte all you for finding you way out of the darkness of dispair into your own being..maybe this is what it is all about ,,maybe our cult experiences were to teach us to trust only ourselves and for the humanists view..maybe your subconscous was guiding you into a higher level of thinking. I comend you all for your stories of triumpt

it is true that people are likelt to follow a croud...watch what happens when something happens and a few people gather around, then people gather in larger and larger numbers because they want to see what everyone else is looking at....it is like a natraul phenonminon..humans are socail creatures and very few people feel content to be themselves for
fear of rejection...we do not want to be alone. and I can see from a humanist point of view..that religion is a coping mechanism to keep from feeling alone..maybe it is..or maybe it is not..I think the fear of lonliness is the driving force of cults.

try this experiment ..if you dare

take a fake spider and throw it on the floor..and scream ..spider spider...watch everyone else scream too..then once they realize it is fake everyone has to check it out just becuse everyone else is doing it

sit back with observant eyes and see how people react..then interview people and ask...why did you scream..why did you take my word for it that it was a real spider....why did you check out the spider after you realized it was fake

now one person inthis group ..hopefully will go up to the spider and realize it wqas fake..interview that person..what made you check out the spider for yourself? how did it make you feel that everyone was taking my word for iit?



it is an interesting study on human nature

good luck

and everyone....thanks for sharing your stories and views together we can help people think for themselves....lol hopefuly

JoAnne