Neilfan, If Joseph Smith did today what he did when he was alive, he would be areested as a sexual predator. You need to study the history of your cult. And the Doctrine and Coventnants still support polygamy. God supposedly told Joseph Smith we should practice polygamy. Do you really believe God considred Afdrican Americans second class citizens until 1978? Do your home work.

Bookguy, if JESUS did today what he did, he'd be arrested.

Hmmm, come to think of it, He WAS, wasn't he? By people who had decided what was and was not "true religion." They killed Him because he wouldn't turn his back on truth and become just like them.

Just like Joseph Smith. If he were really a scam artist, why didn't he renounce what he had said, flee to someplace he wasn't known on sight (remember, this was before Social Security numbers, ID cards, etc)?

kmom:

The LDS church GAVE the ground which became Main Street to Salt Lake City (if you don't know this, there was nothing but empty ground when the Mormon pioneers arrived here, no existing settlement of any sort). The LDS church BOUGHT BACK that land (one of a number of streets which were bought from the city by one group or another over the years). That makes it private property, just like the chunk of ground that your church sits on.

The bullhorns were being used from the Main Street Plaza, during the court battle over what is and is not public.

And actually, while Utah is predominantly LDS, Mormons are a minority in Salt Lake City and the metro area -- we are just the largest minority here.

I invite you to visit SLC sometime. Visit Temple Square, the Church Museum, attend the free Mormon Tabernacle Choir concert, and learn why I would never go back to being a Bible-only Christian.


Rick: No, it has not been proven otherwise. There is evidence which you place your faith in. BIG difference.

Uh . . .Rick . . ? Religion is all FAITH, and if you don't have faith in what your church teaches, you aren't a member, are you? You might attend, but that's not the same thing.

Based on your logic, ANY Christian should believe in Santa . . .unless you can explain away the contradictions in the Bible, not to mention in the actions of Christians throughout the centuries.

BTW, wasn't that a flame, Rick?

There also is no achaeological proof of the existance and destruction of the five cities in the Old Testament, of which the two best known were Sodom and Gomorrah.

For that matter, the entire fact of Jesus' existance must be taken on faith, the Romans left no record whatsoever of Him. There are no contemporary records of any kind, outside of the Gospel and the Book of Mormon. The best that you can find is Josephus, and he was born years after the religious bigots put Jesus on trial.

Thus, ALL of Christianity fails the historical test. To mainstream Christians, this is something that you ignore or avoid discussing. To me, that's just proof that we are supposed to walk by FAITH in Christ, not by a pure knowledge.

Oh, and if the Book of Mormon is "clearly" a work of fiction by Joseph Smith, please explain how and unschooled farmboy could have given such a detailled account, spanning 1000 years, with several different "literary styles" (including those used by Hebrew scholars, which were unknown outside of Jewish tradition during that period). He did it in a matter of weeks, picking up where he had left off the day before without reference to the prior day's work, according to scribes who LEFT THE CHURCH yet never recanted their testimony.

A couple of questions:

1) Who gave you the authority to determine what is and is not a "cult?"

2) Why do you think that God created Man in the first place?

3) If you take the Bible as being word-for-word literal, complete and inerrant, which version do you use, and what do you say to people who use the other versions?

4) How are you any different from Fred Phelps, who has also decided for himself and his followers what a "cult" is? Let me note first that you are, at least, more polite about it, but the basic fact is that each of you has decided to speak for God, you just draw the line in a different place.


I realize that this is a big bite for a first post, but I just found you today.

See [www.culteducation.com]

This section covers the question--What is a "cult"?

You might also refer to Robert Jay Lifton.

See [www.culteducation.com]

The Mormon religion is based upon the supposed "revelation" of Joseph Smith. The problem is the so-called "Book of Mormon" he produced is obviously not what Smith claimed.

That is, it is not a historical record of any actual people that occupied the Western Hemisphere (Americas) before Columbus (pre-Columbian) until about 400 A.D.

Instead, Smith's claimed historical premise is actually only a fanciful fiction concocted by him with no basis in fact, either through objective physical evidence and/or the accepted science of archaeology or anthropology.

This has been demonstrated and/or proven over and over again.

No reputable university, outside Mormon control such as BYU, teaches that the Book of Mormon is anything other than a religious mythology.

There are no archaeological artifacts to support its claims, i.e. the supposed American people mentioned within it, such as the so-called "Laminites," "Nephites" etc.

The book also reflects Smith's educational limitations with its mention of horses, glass manufacture, metalurgy and farm crops that did not exist within pre-Columbian America.

For additional commentary about Mormonism and its historical problems see the following links:

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

Mormons have apologetic seminars to arm the faithful with supposed explanations for all this. However, they are never armed with facts, but rather apologies as to why they have no hard evidence.

See [www.culteducation.com]

But the problem Mormonism has is its historical claims, which cannot be explained away with heartfelt personal testimonies.

Mormonism may have fit the definition of a classic personality-driven cult when it was under the direct control of Joseph Smith during its early days. But gradually the group evolved to its current structure, with shared authority and some democratic reforms.

See the following articles:

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

This thread is awsome. Just want to let you guys know this 30 mins was well spent.

By the way, LDS doctrine is considered mythology by the rest of the world because of simple clues in it. Look closer and you will see it.

Right, Green :

And indigenous peoples in China, India, Africa consider Christianity to be mythology.
And many Christians consider the Islam to be mythology.
and on and on and on.

It's not the belief system, mythology vs scripture, that makes a cult.
It's the 'corporate structure' that defines a cult.

[culteducation.com]

[www.csj.org]

the mormons are a cult like the watchtower who I was brought up in
the mormons abuse women and are into following a man who had many many wives many underage and was a pervert. they have built an empire on lies and rightwing hate they are not rational nor do they accept outsiders
talk to someone who has left and you will know why

Why does the LDS crowd get so worked up over the term cult? By strict definition the word has a neutral connotation. So why the fuss?

I guess it comes down to the fact that the LDS crowd, in a fit of petty exceptionalism feels that their "cult" is in some way better than everybody elses "cult". Their "deity" more true and worthy of worship than everyone elses.

If the LDS people came onto to this message board to prove that they are not creepy cultists than they have done a poor job. Admittedly I don't know to much about their faith, but after their solipistic remarks and intellecutally bereft defense of the indefensible I think they have earned the scorn and suspicion that is aimed their way.

Thank "god" this is a country that keeps people like this from forcing their theocratic despotism upon the rest of us.

Quote
supermonkey
the mormons are a cult like the watchtower who I was brought up in
the mormons abuse women and are into following a man who had many many wives many underage and was a pervert. they have built an empire on lies and rightwing hate they are not rational nor do they accept outsiders
talk to someone who has left and you will know why

They were accused of these things, but all's in the past I think. They don't do that stuff anymore. They even wear clean suits and things. Don't believe their preachin but they sure have cleaned up their act.

Whether or not you want to apply the term "cult" to the LDS is open to debate, and depends on how you define the word. You still cannot ignore the hard evidence. As far as I have read, there are no reasons to believe the Book of Mormon is factual or can be substiated as the "most correct book on earth" as the church claims. This is not just anti-mormon propaganda, but the reality that there isn't any evidence. If you compare it with the Bible, you will see that there are loads of evidence to justify it as a reliable source of truth. For example you can visit the ruins supposed to have been the walls of Jericho. If the book of Mormon is true, there should be tremendous evidence that it is so. I know very little about archeology, but I have never read anything from a non-mormon source that indicates there is good evidence to believe the book is legitimate.

You can't reconcile the teachings of the LDS church with the Bible either. Research Brigham Young's doctrine of "blood atonement" for instance. He said that you can atone for a man's sin by murdering him. If you don't believe me, look it up. I understand it is difficult, but I challenge Mormons to seek objective facts and have the courage to let their beliefs be changed. If it is the truth, you should have nothing to worry about.

Would never let them near me! So I cant check that fact for sure... sorry..