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Re: Deep Throat...Follow the Money, Honey
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 16, 2011 11:36PM


The quoted material about that bad experience was not written by Brad Warner.

It was written by someone else, someone who had gone to a Big Mind event, felt shaken up and wrote to Brad Warner about it.

And this raises an important point:


And given the massive celebrity status Ken Wilber and Genpo have cultivated, the hints that any interest in Big Mind indicates that one is a candidate for evolution to a superior human status--admitting one feels shaken up and lousy following a Big Mind event would, in this social circle, mean admitting, 'I am such an inferior person I failed to benefit from this'.

Many who go to these Big Mind things have already bought into Wilber's elitist, rank ordered system.

They may still believe in Wilbers system and try to use Wilbers own system to make sense of any crisis they may have triggered during a Big Mind event.

And all that Wilbers system will do is imply that only an inferior person would feel anything but joy following Big Mind.

Remember people--neither Ken Wilber nor Merzel have taken time out and used their energy to train and get licensed to become mental health professionals, with the assumption of responsibility and assumption of accountability that true professionalism

If either fellow has a license, valid in his or her state to practice therapy and that license is current, let us know.

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Re: Deep Throat...Follow the Money, Honey
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 17, 2011 12:02AM


. It's a hypnotically induced high with a new sub personality that Genpo can access. And woe to anyone who accesses this high repeatedly.

Folks, if you want a horrific insight into the life of an addict, get and read Jerry Stahl's memoir, Permanent Midnight.

He describes how the mere sight of the dealer will cause a suffering addict to feel ecstatic hope.

As Stahl put it, 'The vultures in my heart stopped flapping and started to coo'

Ulman and Paul, in their 2006 book, The Self Psychology of Addiction and Its Treatment: Narcissus in Wonderland, speak of Addictive Trigger Mechanisms-ATMs for short.

The mere sight of a syringe, or ones dealer addicted can act as an ATM. Stahls descriptions match very well with what is described by Ulman and Paul.

One thing habitues often demand of skeptics is, 'Have you experienced this?'

Years ago a recovering addict told us of her reaction the first time she had what is called a speedball--an injection of cocaine or speed AND heroin.

She got such a sense of ecstacy she knelt down, crying and begged, God dont ever let me stop feeling this way!

Well, her neurotransmitters were depleted, the frustrations of real life returned and she was off on a long and grim career to keep chasing that high.

Luckily she made it to a recovery program.

If one gets high hypnotically, very likely whatever sense of repair to a wounded self one has will be temporary.

Because even in hypnosis, body chemistry is being manipulated.

Eventually you're body chemistry changes, just as all things do and things fade.

One has to leave the protected confines of the retreat and go home.

You feel funky and human and your rank in Ken Wilbers system seems in doubt.

So...this aggravates the very sense of wounded inferior self that may have made this
stuff appealing in the first place.

Wham. Off to the dealer again.

Trouble is, addiction to chemicals usually has built in consquences. Your health breaks down. You look like shit.

But spiritually rationalized addictions dont have such easy to identify consquences. Worse, they have a lot more social validation built in. An entire celebrity scene and media portals.

Folks lining up to get their methadone to maintain usually have to go to clinics in crummy neighborhoods, endure the indignity of piss tests.

By contrast peddlers of spiritually rationalized addiction get the big bucks and do it at fancy hotels or lovely retreat centers and with raw or vegan vegatarian food on the menu.

No one smells bad, no one has missing teeth.

From the stand point of real Dharma the folks at the methadone clinic and the ones addicted to these fancy pants ecstacy jamborees are at the same level.

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Re: Deep Throat...Follow the Money, Honey
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: February 17, 2011 01:24AM

Something that is rarely admitted in meditation circles is that all of the resulting experiences, which by definition are mental experiences, are 'hypnotically induced highs'.

Just as there are hypnotically induced 'highs' there is an equal propensity to produce hypnotically induced 'lows.'

For anyone with a history of traumatic experiences, that is, deeply felt painful memories, (which would include everyone to a greater or lesser degree) the propensity to produce hypnotically induced lows must be that much greater.
For reasons of biological survival, 'bad' memories---memories of events that might have posed a threat to the organism's chances of survival----are naturally more deeply imprinted than 'good' memories, for the purposes of future avoidance of such a threat.

The purpose of practising meditation is not to chase the highs, the peak experiences, but to attempt to come to terms with how the mind produces any such experiences, high, low or just the bog-standard hypnotically induced mental experience of myself as a unique and separate entity interacting with the world--a world that I can no more escape from than a fish can rationally examine the water that he swims in and depends on for every function of his continued living.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2011 01:28AM by Stoic.

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Re: Deep Throat...Follow the Money, Honey
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 18, 2011 06:37AM

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Re: Deep Throat...Follow the Money, Honey
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: February 18, 2011 07:25PM

So in 1992 these upstanding guys wrote a letter:

In August, 1992 , the AZTA teachers at the time (known in those early days as the Second Generations American Zen Teachers group) wrote a letter to Maezumi-roshi expressing our concern about Genpo’s on-going sexual exploitations and his misappropriation of funds. We asked that his permission to teach be revoked.

and are today claiming:

'........ to let you know that AZTA has not been silent about Genpo’s behavior, and in fact was quite active several years ago in trying to change what we felt was an intolerable situation.'

They were knocked back by Genpo's boss:

'...At the end of the meeting, Maezumi-roshi was asked to comment. I don’t recall his exact words but they were something like: “Don’t be the first to throw stones.” He did not accept our request to withdraw Genpo’s sanction to teach the Dharma.'

So they immediately folded, closed ranks and continued to tolerate the 'intolerable.'

What a great example from these 'authorities' on being responsible for oneself and those in one's care, and what a great example of the dangers of putting such authority on a pedestal---as these guys clearly did with Maezumi, bowing down to his self-interested assessment of the situation.

Why did it take 19 years and the done deal of this predator disrobing before these upstanding guys--who knew the facts all along--- published their concerns for the wider public?
I think that the publishing of this letter now is a lame attempt at damage limitation for those in the know, not in any way a mitigation of the 19 year suppression of those facts.

From a commenter:

'Genryu says:
February 13, 2011 at 1:42 am
It’s interesting to me that a representative of the AZTA should make it look as though they were active in trying to do something about Genpo. I contacted several teachers who are members over the last few years, to alert them to what Genpo was doing – and that includes hate campaigns undertaken through his front man Bruce Lambson, deliberately lying about past students, pretending that he hadn’t ordained monks who spoke out about him and of course the ongoing sexual misconduct with several students. The reply was virtually the same in every case and amounted to being told not to criticise Genpo and that he was a famous Zen ‘master’ who wouldn’t behave like this. In other words, I and others who spoke out were labelled as liars.

If there were interventions, why weren’t they made more public? Why were students and prospective students allowed to carry on under the delusion that Genpo was a good teacher, if it was known that at best he was problematic? It seems to me that lip service was paid to the idea of ethics by the AZTA and that nonsense therapies like big mind and the abuse of the student teacher relationship, not to mention Genpo’s obvious personal greed (three houses?) were allowed to carry on not only without any real action being taken but with an active disregard that indirectly at least condoned what this man was doing in the name of Zen. What is the AZTA going to do about this and how is the White Plum Asangha in particular going to make those who have been damaged by Genpo whole?'

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Re: Deep Throat...Follow the Money, Honey
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 19, 2011 08:06AM

Maezumi would have been unable to be objective. He had blindspots.Very serious ones.

The problem is, after one reaches a position of privilige, one automatically has enablers and worse, can pick and choose enablers and reject or drive away students who would refuse to go along.

To see clearly Genpo's true predicament, Maezumi would have had to be truthful in facing his own demons:

"About 8,780 results (0.24 seconds)

Search ResultsTaizan Maezumi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaMaezumi publicly admitted he was an alcoholic in 1983, the year that he was sent to the Betty Ford Clinic for treatment. This coincided with revelations ... - Cached - SimilarZen Masters - Google Books Result
Steven Heine, Dale Stuart Wright - 2010 - Biography & Autobiography - 291 pages
Once out of rehabilitation and educated on issues related to alcohol, Maezumi himself considered it “scandalous.” “It's true,” he said on film, ..., Hakuyu Taizan « Sweeping Zen – The Zen Buddhism DatabaseSome in the sangha began to also express concern about Maezumi's drinking, resulting in Maezumi publically admitting he was alcoholic and entering treatment ... - Cached - SimilarThe 60s communes: hippies and beyond - Google Books Result
Timothy Miller - 1999 - History - 329 pages
Like more than one other American Zen center, however, ZCLA had a leadership crisis in the 1980s when Maezumi's alcoholism and affairs with female students ... MaezumiDec 25, 2010 ... After many years spent struggling with his alcoholism, Maezumi died in Japan in 1995 following a night of drinking—drowning in a bath after ... - CachedHakuyu Taizan Maezumi (1931 - 1995) Biography - Spiritual Warriors ...Maezumi publicly admitted he was an alcoholic in 1983, the year that he was sent to the Betty Ford Clinic for treatment. This coincided with revelations ... - Cachedtaizan maezumi : definition of taizan maezumi and synonym of ...Jan 25, 2008 ... After many years spent struggling with his alcoholism, Maezumi died in Japan in 1995 following a night of drinking—drowning in a bath after ... - CachedTaizan Maezumiby T Maezumi - Related articles
Jan 25, 2008 ... After many years spent struggling with his alcoholism, Maezumi died in Japan in ... Maezumi publicly admitted he was an alcoholic in 1983, ... - CachedCommon Boundary: Encountering the Shadow in Buddhist America“We were all co-alcoholics,” one of Maezumi's students told Buddhist historian Sandy Boucher. “We in subtle ways encouraged his alcoholism because when he ... - Cached - SimilarZen Abbot Gives A U.S. LookA petite woman with an easy laugh, Nakao was called in to help heal the center in 1997 after turbulent allegations of alcohol abuse by Maezumi and sexual ... - Cached - Similar"


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Re: Deep Throat...Follow the Money, Honey
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 19, 2011 08:13AM

Another all too common byproduct:

In set ups like this, there is often no precise language by which to discuss or even acknowlege the possiblity that a powerholder could abuse power.

But there is usually a sophisticated vocabulary and array of rhetorical strategies by which to

*Pass all blame for troubles onto underlings and deflect it from powerholders.

*Rationalize a leader's fuck ups and cruelty as 'Crazy Wisdom'

*Claim that anyone who is troubles is violating Right Speech or needs to deepen his or her practice or reclaim the personal shadow before having any right to comment.

Another tip off:

The leader will talk all about the problem of transferance---that is when a underling projects issues onto the powerholder, but the leader never discusses the existence of countertransferance--the ways powerholders can project their unconscious agendas onto underlings.

There is zero vocubulary for acknowledging that power exists and that it can be used abusively. Any attempt to bring this to conscious awareness is treated as 'negativity'

Or the claim is made that Westerners are ego driven and unable to accept leadership and submission to the whims of a guru or roshi.

There is never any recognition that Eastern teachers are quite as capable of abusing power, sex and drugs as we are.

And addicts tend to hang out and cover for each other. Years ago in a hospital chaplaincy program with a number of staff members in recovery, one of them said, 'You can have two active addicts in a gathering of a hundred people and by some process they will find each other.'

And cover for each other.

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Re: Deep Throat...Follow the Money, Honey
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 19, 2011 08:26AM

A very wise take on this from Brad Warner

"As far as I’m concerned, nearly all of this current stuff about Genpo is entirely missing the point. All of these AZTA people are getting upset about absolutely the wrong things. They should have been publicly stating that Big Mind® was not Zen Buddhism years ago. The hidden details of Genpo’s sex life had nothing at all to do with any of that.

The things that Genpo was doing that made me so pissed off were not concealed in any way. They were right out in the open. He explicitly advertised that he was selling enlightenment experiences for $50,000**. He clearly said in his promotion material for Big Mind® that it could give you a glimpse of Buddha’s realization in a couple of hours with no prior experience. This was no shocking revelation discovered by someone finding secret messages on Genpo’s Blackberry. This was stuff you could see for yourself by looking at Genpo’s own website. Where was everyone’s righteous indignation three years ago?


"**The fee for Genpo's Big Heart Circle retreats subsequently dropped to $25,000 and these days it’s hard to find any of the material he originally posted about these high priced retreats. Here is a blog which quotes most of Genpo’s now-vanished sales pitch for the Big Heart Circle retreats. The standard price for Big Mind® appears to range between $150 and $1000."


Read this and copy it for your files just in case anyone takes it down. Texts on the internet are volatile, unlike books and journal articles.

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Re: Deep Throat...Follow the Money, Honey
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: December 27, 2018 09:52AM



September 23, 2008 at 1:09 pm | Permalink
I used to work at a software company who's founder disappeared after being involved in Rama's shit.

That whole page of LOOK AT OUR SUPPORTERS AND FOUNDERS is a fucking joke. It's the belief in authority out the wazoo.


September 23, 2008 at 12:45 pm | Permalink
“The Big Mind program is made possible by Kanzeon Inc. and grants from the Segal Foundation, the Frederick P. Lenz Foundation for American Buddhism, and private donations.”

Emphasis mine.

Anybody need a refresher in Frederick “Zen Master Rama” Lenz?


September 23, 2008 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

The Lenz money has gone to many Buddhist centers:


What do you think of this list?


September 23, 2008 at 5:18 pm | Permalink
anonymous wrote:

The Lenz money has gone to many Buddhist centers…
What do you think of this list?

I think it is unethical, frankly, for the groups to have taken money from that foundation with the advertised acknowledgment of such grants, because quite frankly, “Dr.” Lenz’s “Buddhism” has as much in common with the 8-fold path as Henry Paulson’s Mortgage Bailout Plan.

The heavy sambokyodan flavor of the grantmaking doesn’t impress me all that much either, frankly, and that especially saddens me as I have learned good things from a couple of their teachers.

I could go on about the specific grants themselves; $56K to study how “to reconcile modern American Buddhist and meditation practice with ancient Tantric Vajrayana Buddhism?”

I s’pose it’s better spent that way than on a Lexus, but I’m really wondering if I can apply for a grant to go Harvard’s library and to translate Suzuki Shosan’s Ha Kirishitan, as the tiny smidgen I’ve seen on line leads me to think it’s more timely and relevant, especially with Sarah Palin and what-not.

But, you know, multiple wrongs don’t make a right.

September 23, 2008 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

In Portland OR, at the behest of the wonderful folks at the Buddhist Peace Fellowship, we changed “Change Your Mind Day” because of its association with Lenz’s foundation, and the recent one was amazing in the breadth and diversity of temples represented.

It was Buddhist, and not so much “American” Buddhist.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2018 09:52AM by corboy.

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