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Re: Deep Throat...Follow the Money, Honey
Posted by: cultsurvivor22 ()
Date: January 04, 2010 11:03AM

Anything can be used for good or bad. Cults can take something like zen or buddhism, which when used properly can be used for good and destroy it and use it to make money and control others.

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Re: Deep Throat...Follow the Money, Honey
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 02, 2010 02:48AM

Big Mind includes doing shadow work.


Someone writing about another group made a interesting quote concerning the dangers of 1) amateurs supervising groups and particular hazards of attempting shadow work in a group setting. Though this was written concerning a group with a different name, the same insights quoted from a Jungian analyst may also apply.

If you're gonna use ideas from Jungian psychology, you owe it to your constituency to respect the hazards as advised by the Jungians whose material you're utilizing.

If you learn to operate a stove, you have to know not only how to bring a pot of water to a boil, but also how to turn the flame down if the pot shows signs of boiling over.

Likewise, people who are paying you money are trusting that you know how to pace the energy in the group.


Report this

The mankind project has many positive aspects as mentioned above. And many
negative and problematic aspects.

I concur it is very important for men (and women) to do the growth work they need to do and to heal the past, to be encouraged to greive, to be more present.

But MKP also in my experience because it was not well supervised had ametuers perform depth psychology and doing it recklessly and dangerously at times. There were leaders who exploited and attempted to exploit other men financially and in one case I heard sexually.

The group can be very dogmatic at times and as Marie Von Franz once said real shadow work cannot be done in groups because people end up creating a new persona even in the midsts of "admiring" their shadow. In otherwords often all the confessing and psychodrama is compromised by men's need to conform, appear as "powerful" or "enlightened" when real integration doesn't occur. There was also inflated grandiosity. I will not throw the baby out with bath (sic). But beware.


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Re: Deep Throat...Follow the Money, Honey
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 03, 2010 02:11AM

How Does a Student Even Know That He or She Needs to Check Things Out When Relations are Underground?


NellaLou said...
Hey Kevin @11:32

It's helpful to step back from these teachers and check out who actually publically supports them and who doesn't. I don't see many (other than Bernie Glassman) openly supporting Genpo for example.

He just isn't mentioned by anyone or quoted, nor does his writing appear very often outside the Wilber/Cohen circle.

But then again there is a whole underground set of connections in the Zen hierarchy. For example Big Mind is used at Jan Chosen Bay Roshi's very mainstream Great Vow Zen Monastery but you *never* see that advertised, mentioned on the website or in any ads. [it is mentioned in this video as a workshop topic [] at timecode 9:22]

So yeah the buyer not only has to beware but do some digging as well to find out what's really going on.

5:50 AM


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Re: Deep Throat...Follow the Money, Honey
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 07, 2010 12:05AM

Excellent survey article on Ken Wilber, mentioning the Integral Life Process and Wilber's worrisome track record of guru endorsements.


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Re: Deep Throat...Follow the Money, Honey
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 17, 2010 10:56PM

Overview of Ken Wilber and reference to ILP


This article is well worth a student's attention. To research Wilber's changing attitudes on a variety of topics, link with Dr Shepherd's article, then go to Edit on your Windows
taskbar, open the 'Find' command and put whatever term you wish into the slot.

One can use the word workshop to trace Wilber's alliances in this area.

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Re: Deep Throat...Follow the Money, Honey
Posted by: bigpigweed ()
Date: November 18, 2010 06:47AM

some very helpful posts here thank you

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Re: Deep Throat...Follow the Money, Honey
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 14, 2011 10:22PM

Note from Corboy:

Until a year to a few months ago, adverts for Big Mind showed Genpo in full Soto Zen robes, with a brown cloak.

To guide readers unfamiliar with this, in Soto Zen, priests wear black cloaks (aka okesa).

But if you have received what has been termed Dharma Transmission, you wear a brown cloak.

It is serious enough when a priest leaves the robes and returns to lay life.

But one who has received Dharma Transmission is listed as one of the 'ancestors' in the Soto Zen lineage.

Heavy stuff.


Famous Zen Master Genpo Roshi has announced that he is disrobing. For those not acquainted with obscure Buddhist twists on familiar phraseology, to “disrobe” as a Buddhist monk means that you formally quit the Buddhist order and give up your status as a priest and/or monk. Ironically, it was disrobing that got him into trouble in the first place. It seems that Genpo, who is married, had an affair with the woman he was grooming to be his successor.

Genpo Roshi put a short essay explaining his side of the story entitled “Owning My Responsibility” on his website. It said in part,

“I have chosen to disrobe as a Buddhist Priest, and will stop giving Buddhist Precepts or Ordinations, but I will continue teaching Big Mind®. I will spend the rest of my life truly integrating the Soto Zen Buddhist Ethics into my life and practice so I can once again regain dignity and respect. I will not give up on, and will still continue to be available for people who wish to continue studying with me as just an ordinary human being who is working on his own shadows and deeply rooted patterns… that have led me to miss the mark of being a moral and ethical person and a decent human being. Experiencing the pain and suffering that I have caused has truly touched my heart and been the greatest teacher. It has helped open my eyes and given me greater clarity around my own dishonest, hurtful behavior as well as my sexual misconduct. I am in deep pain over the suffering I have caused my wife, children, students, successors and Sangha.”

It’s signed “With Sadness and Love.” Isn’t that just the most precious and special thing you’ve ever read in your entire life? Feh.*

Some of you reading this probably already know that I have been highly critical of Genpo Roshi for a number of years. In March of 2007 I published an essay on the Suicide Girls website titled Big Mind® is a Big Load® of Horseshit. In that essay I took Genpo to task for teaching a ridiculous technique that he claimed in his literature at the time could give a person a true Buddhist enlightenment experience in just a few hours. Not long after that Genpo introduced a new, extra special version of the Big Mind® seminars for which he charged $50,000 per person. I spoke out about that as well. In 2008, the folks in Genpo’s organization came after me for daring to criticize their teacher in the comments section of this Elephant Journal piece.

Now Genpo’s sexual misconduct has been found out and he’s all contrite and lovingly sad about it. Yet he promises he will still continue teaching Big Mind® and he will truly integrate Soto Zen Buddhist Ethics into his life. There is something seriously wrong with this picture. Deeply, deeply wrong.

Maybe I’m just weird. But Genpo’s affair seems like a pretty minor thing. Which is not to say I think it’s fine and dandy. But it’s a matter between him and his wife and his lover. I’ve come to believe quite strongly that monogamy is not at all the natural condition of human beings, despite what we’ve been told for so many years. For some people it comes effortlessly. For others it is absolutely impossible. I think for most of us it is possible, but extremely difficult. When I hear that someone has failed at it I am never shocked or surprised.

I understand that Genpo presented himself as a happily monogamously married family man and that these new revelations have shown this to have been a lie. I can see why people are upset at finding out that a man they trusted to lead them to the Ultimate Truth could not even tell the conventional/relative truth about his marital situation. Even so, the man’s sexual infidelities and his dishonesty about them, as bad as they are, are not even close to what I perceive as his most damaging misconduct.

People are falling all over themselves to congratulate Genpo for disrobing and “doing the right thing.” I don’t see it that way at all.

Doing the right thing would have been remaining as a monk and ending the whole Big Mind® program. By leaving the Buddhist community, Genpo has now put himself beyond the reach of the only people who could legitimately criticize Big Mind®.

(Corboy italics for emphasis)

I expect to see Big Mind® get even bigger and cause more destruction. Even absent the Big Mind® nonsense, remaining in the Buddhist order would have been the best way to address the other matters. Now that he’s on his own, Genpo has no one to answer to and can become as big of a cult leader as he pleases. That’s what typcially happens in cases like this.

As usual when a sex scandal hits the news, this one has been accompanied by a whole series of other revelations. A former insider in Genpo’s organization stated on Facebook that Genpo’s community “has given him (Genpo) enough money to have three houses, two new cars and a Harley Davidson, not to mention a couple hundred thou a year salary and all expenses.” Yikes!

This all just has me scratching my head and furrowing my brow. Maybe I simply do not comprehend how normal people think. Because very little of this makes any sense to me at all. I get that the whole love affair thing was hidden. I get that people didn’t know about it till now. But this financial stuff had to have been all right out in the open. Genpo’s community didn’t know he had three houses, two new cars and a Harley? Really? Even I have seen photos of him on the Harley. And yet nobody noticed any problem with this? Seriously? That’s your story?

Look. I am not insisting all Zen monks take a vow of absolute poverty and live on just what they can carry in a knapsack slung over their backs like the monks in ancient China did. I know we’re living in a completely different society than they were. I own three bass guitars, a used PT Cruiser, and a ten-speed bike. I wouldn’t want to have to stuff those in a knapsack. But three houses? For the love of God, who needs three houses? I don’t even have one!**

Genpo made no secret that he was charging $50,000 a person for his instant enlightenment seminars. Didn’t anyone think that was just a tad excessive? It doesn’t sound like Genpo has any intention of not doing that anymore. He’s just going to be a little more careful about where he puts his penis.

I don’t care where he puts his penis! I’m sorry for the pain and suffering his wife and kids and his girlfriend had to endure. And it does show a lack of judgment and honesty that could reflect on other areas of his life and teaching. But it is so completely removed from the more truly damaging stuff he’s been doing, and apparently intends to go right on doing, that it hardly even registers as far as I’m concerned.

Sexual misconduct is a serious matter in Buddhist practice. It is one of the top ten things we vow not to do when we declare to the world our intention of following the Buddha Way. Long ago the Buddhist order tried to specifically define what is and is not sexual misconduct. But many centuries before any of us were born they realized that what constitutes sexual misconduct is very much tied to the society you live in and the attitudes of the people you interact with. There can never be any universal definition of sexual misconduct. Nevertheless there is still a universal thing that we can call “sexual misconduct” in spite of the fact that the specifics of what it is are so variable. Therefore we vow not to conduct ourselves wrongly in the area of sexuality. Then we have to figure out for ourselves what precisely that means in our own lives and in the lives of those we interact with.

It sounds to me like Genpo probably did engage in sexual misconduct. He clearly defines his behavior as such. In another instance having sex with someone other than the person you married would not be sexual misconduct. There are many married couples who do not feel that extra-marital sex is sexual misconduct. There are even entire societies who do not feel sex outside of marriage is anything to get too worked up about.

This is why these sex-related allegations against Genpo mean nothing at all to me. For all I know maybe Genpo and his wife were swingers and the affair was not nearly so hurtful as he’s making it out to be. He could just be too ashamed to admit it and is taking this public stance as a way of avoiding doing so. I don’t know and I don’t care very much. I don’t even understand why everyone else seems so overwrought about it.

There is another issue, though, that I am personally concerned about regarding this scandal. Some people have misread my book Zen Wrapped in Karma Dipped in Chocolate as containing the revelation that I had an affair with one of my Zen students. Some have even so deeply misconstrued the book as to believe it says I had two affairs with two students. In fact, I fell in love with a woman who had come to a handful of the Zen classes I taught and then stopped attending them a few months before we got together. The other woman mentioned in the book was not only not a Zen student, she had not even the slightest interest in Buddhism. Neither of them ever entered into anything like a formal teacher/student relationship with me. In Zen, the teacher/student relationship is a clearly defined thing that involves a specific public declaration and ceremony.

Even so, this experience led me to understand how and why teacher/student love affairs develop so frequently in the Zen community as well as in other spiritual communities. Most of them are nothing at all like what happened with Genpo. There is no deception, no cheating on spouses, and no abuse of power going on in the majority of these relationships.

They are simply cases of people finding mutual attraction based on a deeply held interest that precious few people can even understand let alone share. Where else would an un-partnered Zen teacher be most likely to encounter a person like that other than among her students? Sure there are six billion other people on the planet, as one guy pointed out on Facebook regarding Genpo. But how many of them are committed practitioners of the thing that un-partnered teacher has dedicated her life to?

Unfortunately for these lucky people who have been able to find their so-called “soul mates,” the Genpo case may very well be absorbed into the psyches of the rest of their community and lead them to believe that something terrible is going on when really nothing could be further from the truth. Besides the whole Big Mind® mess, this is what saddens me most about the Genpo Roshi affair.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Big Mind® is a deeply hurtful and dangerous technique that goes absolutely against the real teachings of Soto style Zen Buddhism. It is far more unethical and immoral to run a Big Mind® seminar than it is to cheat on your spouse. The potential damage far surpasses anything a love affair could produce. I’ve written more extensively about this on my blog.

Buddhist style “enlightenment experiences” (I despise this term, but it’s in common use, so I’m stuck with it) are not something one should take lightly. There’s a very good reason why Zen teachers for thousands of years have cautioned their students to go very slowly and cautiously along the path. These sudden breakthroughs can seem very thrilling when they happen. People might even pay good money for them. But they can also mess your mind up in a very big way if you go into them unprepared. Yet here’s old loving Genpo making it so you can walk in off the street and have one in a couple hours. That’s about like giving random people massive doses of LSD and saying, “Here! It’s fun! Now you’re going to see God and love everyone in the world!”

And Genpo has vowed to keep right on doing it. Wonderful. Just wonderful.

* And poor Ken Wilber! He’s up there on YouTube from a couple years ago telling the world, “Isn’t Genpo Roshi about the most amazing thing you’ve ever seen? It’s not just Genpo as a human being and as an Enlightened human being. He’s a deeply, deeply decent human being. Which is much harder than being enlightened, incidentally.”

**Hey former Genpo followers! I’m struggling to find a way to pay the rent on a cheap apartment in one of the most rundown communities in America. If you really want to stick it to Genpo, why not take away one of his houses, sell it, and give the money to his worst arch-enemy and nemesis — me? Then I’ll buy myself one house and it’ll all be even steven. Hit me up. We’ll talk.

And read the comments, too.

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Re: Deep Throat...Follow the Money, Honey
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 14, 2011 10:34PM

Silencing 'the Controller'.


This might seem bold, this might seem strange," he tells the group, "that
you will have in one day -- before lunch actually -- the clarity and
experience that a Zen master has. But Zen is seen as the school of sudden
enlightenment. And we're just making sure it remains sudden."

His technique to temporarily silence the "controller" -- one's ego or
commanding voice -- is so simple that it's surprising it wasn't discovered
earlier, he says. But such an insight wasn't possible as long as Zen
remained an Eastern-centered discipline.

"What we're going to do is get permission from your ego to abandon itself,
to stay in cold storage for a while," he says.



"The Master should be the owner," said Roshi. "The controller should be the
servant. If you're run by the controller, you're run by greed. If you're run
by the Master, you're run by wisdom, compassion and responsibility."


Found this from a Yahoo discussion back when Merzel was still Genpo.


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Sunday, February 6th, Ken Wilber sent out an email to the folks on the
Integral Institute mailing list. Along with reporting that the Integral
Institute's seminars have been remarkably successful -- and inviting more
folks to sign up -- Wilber mentioned a technique that Genpo Roshi has
developed that, says Wilber, is "by far the most effective technique for
eliciting a satori experience within a few hours -- guaranteed (I personally
have never seen it fail yet)".

While I can't vouch for the effectiveness of Genpo Roshi's process (I
listened to the hour and a half version posted on the Integral Naked website
and didn't experience any major shifts of consciousness), I thought all of
you would like to find out more about it. So after Wilber's letter, I have
included more information about Genpo Roshi and his "Big Mind Process".

--- David Sunfellow


Integral Institute Seminars
February 6, 2005


Ken Wilber Writes:

Hello friends,

Pay attention if you would, please, because for the first time in my
professional life I am about to prostitute myself, and I want to see how you
think I do.

I am specifically writing to you to announce that the schedule for our 2005
seminars is now posted on the Integral Institute website -- seminars on
topics including Integral Transformative Practice, Integral Consciousness,
Integral Psychotherapy, Integral Organizational Leadership, and more. I will
give you the information for that in just a minute.

But I'm even happier to report to you how Integral Institute's first series
of seminars went, because it's not simply that they exceeded our
expectations, but that they quite literally blew everybody away. Both the
presenters and the attendees had the overwhelming sense that something
extraordinary, new, and groundbreaking was emerging. Some sessions and
presenters got an overall rating of 9.9 out of 10, which is simply unheard
of with these types of things.

Let me tell you a few of the reasons that I think this happened. The first
is that all of our seminars are led by a team drawn from Integral
Institute's premier roster of experts in each of their respective fields.
These fine folks are not just skilled teachers, they are experienced
practitioners who are applying integral theory to real world situations
every day, with amazing success.

A second reason is that each of our seminar features a meditation component,
which has been created in consultation with the finest spiritual teachers
from all of the world's great wisdom traditions. Spiritual teachers involved
with Integral Institute and Integral Spiritual Center -- including Genpo
Roshi, Father Thomas Keating, Rabbi Zalman Schachter-Shalomi, Surya Das,
Sally Kempton (Durgananda), David Deida, Michael Murphy, Frances Vaughan,
Traleg Rinpoche, Roger Walsh, Rabbi Marc Gafni, among many others -- have played a role in creating this part of the practice. Every seminar also features a full presentation of Genpo Roshi's Big Mind process, which is by
far the most effective technique for eliciting a satori experience within a
few hours -- guaranteed (I personally have never seen it fail yet).

(Regarding Marc Gafni please read this (Corboy)





(Back to the text)

Another reason -- perhaps most important -- is due to the people who attend
the seminars. Because most of these people are familiar with my work, they
are almost entirely second-tier or integrally oriented already. The most
common comment that we hear from people at the seminars is something like,
"Just being among 50 other people who are already open to integral ideas and
practice is an extraordinary experience."

If you are like most people who have an integral awareness, you probably
can't talk about this with anybody. If you are integral in this culture, you
are, in effect, in the closet. So can you imagine spending a week with 50
people who are fully open to integral ideas, and with whom you can discuss
these things without hesitation, reticence, or reluctance? Some people
report that this is the most freeing and exhilarating aspect of the entire

I believe this is why every single teacher who we have had participate in
these events claims that these are the finest students they have ever worked
with. There's a synergy about this entire process that truly is
extraordinary -- and that is why I think all of us, me included, have been
completely blown away by the extraordinary emergence in consciousness that
these seminars create.

And so, my friends, why don't you come and join us for one of these
exceptional training experiences in the new year? It's to the point now
where I know that I can promise you that you will not be disappointed.

If money is a problem, please sign up for our scholarship program. We are
very generous with these, and we want to do everything we can to make sure
that these types of teachings are made available to people regardless of
their income.

So what do you think? Did I completely commercialize and prostitute myself?
Oh wait -- here is one more corny thing I can throw in. Come to one of the
seminars, and if you are not completely blown away like the rest of us have
been, we will give you your money back right on the spot, no questions
asked. I'm dead serious.

Well, there you have it. And if I can drop the slightly tongue-in-cheek
attitude for a moment, the thing that has touched me the most about these
seminars is that we are building a community -- a learning community -- of
people who are integrally informed and integrally aware, and who can share
this extraordinary experience and understanding together, and then begin to
take it out into the world where all the real work needs to be done. I truly
would love for you to become a member of our community, and help us with
this extraordinary adventure.

Hope to see you soon,

Ken Wilber,
President of Integral Institute

To sign up for one of the seminars, or to find out more information about
them, please visit:



By Janet Rae Brooks
The Salt Lake Tribune
July 27, 2002


When Dennis Merzel began his formal Zen studies three decades ago, his
Japanese Zen master's methods left him perplexed. "DIE ON YOUR CUSHION!"
Koryu Roshi exhorted his novices who sat cross-legged on cushions facing a
wall at the Los Angeles Zen Center. "BECOME THE WALL!"

"I don't know what the hell he's talking about," Merzel remembers thinking.
"And even if I knew, I'm not doing it."

From that unlikely beginning, Brooklyn-born Merzel has gone on to become
spiritual leader to thousands of Zen Buddhists around the world.

But Merzel -- now called Genpo Roshi -- always knew the traditional Eastern
approach to Zen didn't work for many Westerners. They don't like being told
to die. Although he eventually realized the Zen master was commanding him to
"die" in order to be reborn as a more compassionate being, he thought there
had to be a better way to unlock the Zen door to Westerners.

For decades, Genpo searched for the key to enable Westerners to shift from
identifying with their own self to being identified with the whole cosmos‹to
the Universal or Big Mind. Three years ago, he finally found it.

Call it the Western path to enlightenment.

Through a combination of Western therapy and Zen practice, Roshi now shows
Zen beginners in one-day seminars at Salt Lake City's Kanzeon Zen Center how
to achieve an awakening that has taken many Zen practitioners years.

And it's all possible, he says, because Westerners are suckers for a magic
word: Please.

"We'll do anything for anyone if they say please," Roshi says.

At recent Saturday seminar, Roshi -- wearing khakis and a short-sleeved
black shirt -- strode into an airy upstairs room to take his place in a
director's chair before a room of 60 people sitting in padded chairs grouped
in a half-circle.

"This might seem bold, this might seem strange," he tells the group, "that
you will have in one day -- before lunch actually -- the clarity and
experience that a Zen master has. But Zen is seen as the school of sudden
enlightenment. And we're just making sure it remains sudden."

His technique to temporarily silence the "controller" -- one's ego or
commanding voice -- is so simple that it's surprising it wasn't discovered
earlier, he says. But such an insight wasn't possible as long as Zen
remained an Eastern-centered discipline.

"What we're going to do is get permission from your ego to abandon itself,
to stay in cold storage for a while," he says.

Roshi assures us we are not being shown a shortcut that will rob us of our
own struggles. "You will still have to walk your path," he says. "All this
will do is give you some wisdom as you walk this path."

After spending as much as 10 hours a day, nine months a year, sitting in
meditation, Roshi wondered if he was making enlightenment too easy.

"That's a lot of time on a cushion," he says. "And to think someone dares to
have this experience in a day?"

But then he realized his struggles served a purpose. If a group climbing a
mountain ran out of water and sent a couple of stronger members ahead to
find more, do they then bring the water back to the group, even though no
one else has climbed the mountain?

Of course they do. Even after the group drinks the water, each member still
has to climb the mountain.

"When I realized the folly of where I was stuck, this process came like
that," Roshi says with a snap of his fingers.

And the more people who live in a state of compassionate awakening the
better, he says. Consciousness shouldn't be limited to monks, Zen centers
and a smattering of individuals. Then Roshi asks to speak to our
"controller." To signify our willingness and readiness to allow him access,
we are to shift our chairs a few inches to reinforce the shift in our

"Who am I speaking to?" he asks.

"Controller," we say in unison.

The controller's job is to control, he says. What functions might the
controller serve, he asks?

"Protection," someone answers. "Survival," says someone else. "Somebody
needs to be in charge."

Roshi then asks the controller for permission to speak to the voice of the
skeptic. We shift our chairs.

"Who am I speaking to?"

"Skeptic," we say.

"Your job," he says, "is to be skeptical, to doubt, to question."

When invited to express our doubts, the answers pour out: "Should I even be
here?" "Enlightenment just can't be this easy." "Am I really going to get my
money's worth?" "What if I find enlightenment?" "What if it's not what I
want to know?" "Zen mastery in Salt Lake? Uh huh."

We check in with the voice of trust, establishing that that voice, at least,
believes people are basically good, then return briefly to the controller --
"I feel better," says one wag -- before Roshi asks us for a clear channel to
Big Mind.

We're right on schedule. It's not yet lunchtime.

"Who am I talking to?" asks Roshi.

"Big Mind," we answer.

Prodding us, Roshi asks us to note the shape, size, form and colors of Big

"Can you find a boundary? Can you find a limit? Can you find a beginning?
When were you born? When will you die? Can anything hurt you? Can anything
destroy you?"

Incredibly, less than three hours after meeting Roshi, everyone in the room
seems to be identifying with the cosmos. For participant Sally Small,
Roshi's questions seemed irrelevant. "Big Mind is an all-inclusive frame of
mind," she said after the seminar. "It doesn't get stuck in one shape or one
color or anything."

For Michelle Larsen, Big Mind mirrored a near-death experience she survived
after a motorcycle accident a decade ago. "I've tried to explain it for 10
years," Larsen later said. "To know it could happen to everyone else. . ."

We return to the controller. After experiencing Big Mind, what advice would
you give to the self, Roshi asks?

"Release," someone says. "Relax," says another. "Die on your cushion," says
a third, to laughter.

We switch to the voice of Peace, then to God, or the creator, before Roshi
advises us to go to lunch as the integrated self. "Be mindful of all the
voices," he says.

"I don't know whether I'm in Zen class or in therapy," says one participant
as we file down the stairs.

After lunch, we voyage through the voices of non-seeking, Big Mind, big
heart and peace before Roshi calls us back to the voice of the controller.
For Larsen, the return was traumatic. "It's like you're being crushed," she
said. "It's almost audible."

We then look at the voices of wisdom and compassion, and examine the
difference between acting in the voice of the controller -- the voice we
probably consider our own -- and the voice of the Master.

"The Master should be the owner," said Roshi. "The controller should be the
servant. If you're run by the controller, you're run by greed. If you're run
by the Master, you're run by wisdom, compassion and responsibility."

But we can't live our Western lives -- balancing marriage, religion,
sexuality, children and home -- in the voice of the Master, as can Asian
monks in monasteries.

"Trust me on this one," said Roshi. "I was Master before I got married. I
had to drop that one. I'm saving you a lot of pain. You'll thank me in five
years. Don't go home in the voice of the Master. Go home in the voice of the
integrated self."




Genpo visited the Denver loft of Integral Institute and gave a demonstration
to a small group (including Ken Wilber, David Deida, and 2 IN staff
members). Also present was John Kesler, a founding member of I-I and senior
student of Genpo's in the Big Mind training work.

One has to put oneself in an open frame of mind, imagine being present, and
let the teaching unfold in oneself. Don't worry if you can't hear the other
participants' questions or answers. In virtually all cases, Genpo repeats
the important points, and you can hear him clearly.

In essence, the exercise is as follows: Genpo will ask the participants
(including you) if he can speak to a series of "personalities" in their
psyche or awareness. These personalities include the controller, the damaged
self, the fixer, and the seeking mind. At some point, he will ask to speak
to your Big Mind. Because nondual, ever-present Big Mind is indeed
ever-present, if you have listened along with an open attitude, the very
nature of your own Big Mind will stand forth in a very obvious, very simple

Genpo will then lead you on a tour of your own nondual awareness, including
not only Big Mind but Big Heart. He will conclude by calling forth an even
higher -- some would say ultimate -- state of being, which Genpo calls the
"integrated free-functioning mind." This integrated consciousness is even
"bigger" than Big Mind, because it integrates Big Mind and small mind in a
freely functioning wholeness that neither alone can accomplish.

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"Speaking Freely" with Sheila Hamilton, Portland, OR
February 2004





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Re: Deep Throat...Follow the Money, Honey
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: February 15, 2011 01:22AM

Here is an interesting post on lineage and dharma transmission, found via the comments to Brad Warner's piece on the erstwhile Roshi Genpo's disrobing/defrocking. (the first implies personal volition, the second external pressure to disrobe--not yet clear where the impetus originated)


'This is a Mad Hatter’s tea party, where hierarchical robes and titles, sadomasochistic austerities, and subterranean libertinism mix together in incestuous “spiritual communities” filled with distrust and rivalries – all this in a scramble for the summit of some distant “spiritual” mountain. This would be comic if it weren’t tragic.

And it is tragic.

It is tragic because countless Americans hunger for genuine meaning – meaning unavailable in the toxic mimics offered by game shows, professional sports, “reality” TV, ugly politics, “free-market” competition, and unimaginably wasteful wealth accumulation at the top.

Yet meaning is available – above all in the penetrating explorations into the mysteries of consciousness we undertake in meditation and yoga. And the most important thing we can bring to these inquiries – and to those we hope to further in these inquiries – is our sincerity and selflessness.'


'Stated simply, the doctrine of dharma transmission is just one more among the many attractive delusions held by human beings. Unfortunately, adherence to it gives the dharma heir a very powerful – and potentially dangerous – authority within the community of Zen practitioners, much as does the doctrine of the Apostolic Succession in the Roman Catholic Church, where the recent child abuse scandals illustrate the dangers of priesthoods that claim an authority beyond the ordinary and human. Those in such positions are sorely tempted to protect each other, ignoring or covering up the harm done by their colleagues.

So long as American Zen relies on dharma transmission as a credential, there will be one Shimano after another – and dharma heirs who will go to great lengths to protect the master that conferred authority upon them. For if the master who has declared me awakened has erred, if he does not, indeed, “dwell in the Absolute,” then my own credential is called into question – along with my prestige and authority in the community and my ability to confer this power upon others.'


'Of course, many Zen teachers will refuse to discard this false credential. Those with the courage to act can take comfort from the Buddha’s words in The Mahaparinibbana Suttanta, words that E.A. Burtt suggests bring out “one major and authentic note” among the various presumed “final” teachings attributed to the Buddha.

As the Buddha prepares for death, Ananda begs him to leave “instructions as touching the order.” The Buddha responds that he has nothing more to offer. He has taught freely to everyone, his teaching is complete, and the community must now find its own way forward.'


'These words were, to the hearers, most probably unforgettable – told and retold in the community too many times to be expunged. If they are indeed authoritative, the Buddha himself never had any notion of the creation of a lineage of dharma heirs.'


'To matter much in America, Zen must undergo its own painful Protestant Reformation – the deconstruction of lineage. This will free practitioners to learn from trained and accountable teachers in the spirit of the Buddha’s final admonition:

“Therefore, O Ananda, be ye lamps unto yourselves. Rely on yourselves, and do not rely on external help. Hold fast to the truth as a lamp. Seek salvation alone in the truth. Look not to assistance to anyone besides yourselves.”

I remember finding this one a doctrine of despair, having already concluded that there is no single unassailable truth to be found. However, seen as an ongoing, lifetime learning process rather than a quick, one-time fix, the necessary effort needed is not quite so daunting.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2011 01:33AM by Stoic.

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Re: Deep Throat...Follow the Money, Honey
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 15, 2011 08:53AM

One of the people who contributed to the comments on Hardcore Zen posted this.

It deserves attention from a wider audience.


Mindless Troll said...
in my case, after a few years of zen practice I started to see that many of society's rules were arbitrary and based upon tradtion. This really applies to sexual behaviour. What is acceptable varies greatly from culture to culture and time to time. Seeing this, I gave free-reign to my strong sexual urges. Without the rules and tradtional conditioning, the only thing left was my own desires. I just knew that I was God almighty, the one, real being of all time and this meant I could really do no wrong.

I see so much of this thinking and behaviour in zen students (and teachers) in the west. I was married and began lying and cheating just like Genpo, et al. For several years, I continued my zen practice along with my increasingingly self-centered behaviour. It was like part of my mind was 'advancing' (bad word, I know) spiritually while the rest remained stuck at a really base level. After a few years, this action (karma) reached fruition and began to cause suffering for many people. I began to re-think my notions of hippie free-love and how I was beyond all rules.

Several years later I began to realize what had happened. I was only seeing one side. Yes, it's true that many rules and ethical taboos are simply arbitrary and culture-bound.

But....I had neglected to really face the fact that after discarding these artificial rules of society I fell back upon my own selfish desires and attachments and allowed them to rule me instead.

It was hard for me to see that sexual attachment is also a form of delusion. Not sexual feeling itself, but what our mind does with this feeling. The endless fantasies and ego involvement.

I went back to basic Buddhism. The eight fold path and noble truths. Selfish craving is the cause of suffering. No amount of zazen will magically force us to be self-aware. Zazen is not a technique for self-improvement any more than it is for enlightenment. Simply sitting in the correct posture and trying to be aware of the coming and going of thoughts (or working with a koan) does not automatically release us from suffering. You can sit for 40 years and be no closer to the truth.

So-called satori is but the beginning of zen practice.


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