Dahn Defense
Posted by:
tomdecaro
()
Date: October 22, 2004 10:36PM
Response to the Dahn bad news web site:
All organizations have problems, dissenters, and those who feel slighted, and apparently Dahn is not spared all of the above. I have been a member for 2 years and have found the experience to be positively transforming. I come to Dahn from a background in Tibettan Buddhism. Buddhism in general does not completely agree with Dahn. That does not mean that I cannot take the best of Dahn, particularly the ability to work with the whole physical, energy & spiritual body. Buddhist practices as I have experienced them center around meditation and visualization techniques, which mostly focus on the spiritual body. These techniques are very powerful if used properly to transform the mind from its grasping and rejective state of ignorance to its state of true nature. Dahn brings this transformation to the other 2 bodies very effectively.
People complain that Dahn masters have given them a hard sell to engage in various outside trainings. The focus does not appear to be primarily financial, in my view. The outside trainings, especially Shim Sung, are very transformative. I myself was very transformed. I got in touch with a lot of emotional depth which I had buried under a lot of workaholism. Emotions are not really emphasized in mainstream Buddhism. They are not to be repressed, but there are not really effective Buddhist practices I have encountered which deal directly with emotions. Ditto Christianity, Judiasm, Islam, Hinduism. Dahn is a complete, wholistic practice system which is congruent with virtually everybody.
I guess like with all Westerners, it comes down to money. If someone appears to be making a profit right there in the open, they are scorned and secretly envied. This is the Western spiritual practice of "one-up put-down." Just be a little successful and, when word gets out, see how you are treated.
There are two kinds of movements. Those which are well-funded and those which are poorly funded. In the latter, fundraising becomes one of the primary organizational focuses. Bake sales, raffles, collections, grant writing, faith-based inititiatives, become at least 50% of the focus of such an organization and sometimes closer to 80%. It becomes a matter of survival.
Dahn facilities are very clean, beautiful and well-run. The funding issues are handled up-front by charging all us middle class gripers a reasonable fee. An amount is charged for a Dahn function and it seems apparent that the charges facilitate very comfortable settings for the seminars and practices. Mago Garden is excellent, and obviously constructed on a careful budget. The trainings such as Shim Sung are conducted in well-appointed hotel facilities. The underlying stress which pervades functions of underfunded spiritual organizations detracts from the whole experience. Dahn does not have this problem.
Sure, Dahn charges a good deal, but few say you don't get what you pay for. There are a lot of approaches to Dahn, and if you don't want to go full bore, you can approach it at your own level. Dahn's audience are adults capable of explaining that they don't want to get into the program beyond a certain point. If you feel noodged, simply be firm about your level of commitment. Nobody gets dragged to these sessions by a press gang.
Maybe Dr. Il Che Lee is living in a nice home. I have no problem with that. He isn't living a lavish life style like some other so-called gurus such as Sun Myung Moon (who was convicted of tax fraud for looting the Unification Church). Dr. Lee spends his time giving speeches and seminars, meeting with dignitaries and spreading the word of world peace, seeking to create a generation of Earth Humans, inventing exercises and brain respiration techniques and the like. You never hear that he was passed out in Vegas behind one of the tables, or out on someone's yacht. There is absolutely no evidence that the money he has came to him in any improper way. He invented some very excellent devices and practices and as Westerners, we should realize that this is worth a good deal of money. If this stuff was being marketed commercially, the company would make a good deal of money and Dr. Lee would be in for significant royalties.
Great spiritual leaders of the past have not always lived in the hedgerows. The Holy Prophet Muhammad married well, and, after enduring a good deal of personal hardship, was supported by the Muslim in comfort. Hindu spiritual leaders are known to live well (although many are extreme ascetics). People tried to give Jesus material things, but his ministry was to the poor and he had to make the most of a short teaching period so he dwelt among a variety of people. The Buddha started out living as a prince. He renounced this kind of life and engaged in 6 years of stringent ascetic practices. Realizing that mere asceticism did not lead to enlightenment, he abandoned the pure ascetic approach for the Middle Way, which can be briefly summed up as taking things as they come and not becoming attached to them or letting either riches or poverty dominate your mind.
Marpa, one of the saints of Tibettan Buddhism, returned to Tibet after a sojourn in India, where he received the most escoteric teachings, and took up the position of a wealthy, married landowner, although he is recognized as being an individual of very high realization. Marpa trained Milaripa, the most beloved Tibettan saint, during this period. Milaripa spent 20 years wandering in the wilderness practicing and he is said to have reached enlightenment. Material circumstances of a person, so long as they are not defiled, do not define that person's spirituality. Milaripa never condemned Marpa for living well.
Dr. Lee I hope lives very well. Unless he is living on misappropriated donations, I really don't have a problem with his life style. There is absolutely no evidence that he is living on donations. If you are in his presence, you realize that he is a realized practitioner with a clear mind. The Dahn organization proves this, because it takes difficult spiritual concepts and practices and makes them very accessible right down to the physical level.
Another "gotcha" seems to be that there are people in the Dahn organization who are working cheap. Maybe they need to unionize? Anyhow, I never met anyone in Dahn who was not a sane adult making a choice. If you want more financial compensation, health care and the like, get an outside job which provides these things. I have worked at the IRS Exempt Organizations Division examining cult-like organizations which claim to be tax-exempt. I don't get the feeling that anyone in the Dahn organization is being forced or brainwashed into doing anything. The peer pressure as in any organization can possibly be strong, and everyone has an individual story to tell. But there does not appear to be a systematic attempt to recruit those psycologically vulnerable to cult exploitation. Many religious organizations have attracted people who want to remain single and wholeheartedly deducated. Catholic clergy, Buddhist monks and lamas, ascetics of all types abound. In fact, I do not think that Dahn has any strict formula for being a family person or a single person, although to achieve the highest Dahn has to offer, you need to be able to make a serious time commitment.
Lastly, when you start on a spiritual practice path, the first thing you encounter is the stuff in your makeup that is the least pleasant. Jesus was tempted by the devil. The Buddha, on the eve of his manifesting complete enlightenment, underwent extensive temptations by the devil. When you pull the cork out of the bottle, everything comes out. Unfortunately, some people on the spiritual path get to a point of extreme discomfort. Monastic settings have ways of dealing with this, but some of this stuff can come up as a result of Dahn practices too. It happened to me. Although Dahn is a human organization like every other, the masters are able to work with these situations and they are alert for something like this happening. Like doctors, who cannot guarantee a cure, a Dahn master can only do their best. It is not the system that is at fault, but rather it is the fault of human nature, exposed to the pure light of Ki. If you never do anything to improve, you will simply drag all this stuff into your next lifetime, where who knows how it will manifest? If you are looking for a perfect set of practices which do not bring these issues to light, please search diligently and report to me immediately when you find it.
Personally, I endorse Dahn without reservation. I highly recommend it to anyone. I regret that I came to it so late in life and that my own resources are not sufficient to allow me to go further faster, although I identify myself on a gradual track to becoming a master.
What would you rather do? Let a job beat you to death, then move to a retirement condo in Florida, or spend your life trying to realize the goal of improving the world's energy and reversing the obvious trend downward?
All organizations have problems, dissenters, and those who feel slighted, and apparently Dahn is not spared all of the above. I have been a member for 2 years and have found the experience to be positively transforming. I come to Dahn from a background in Tibettan Buddhism. Buddhism in general does not completely agree with Dahn. That does not mean that I cannot take the best of Dahn, particularly the ability to work with the whole physical, energy & spiritual body. Buddhist practices as I have experienced them center around meditation and visualization techniques, which mostly focus on the spiritual body. These techniques are very powerful if used properly to transform the mind from its grasping and rejective state of ignorance to its state of true nature. Dahn brings this transformation to the other 2 bodies very effectively.
People complain that Dahn masters have given them a hard sell to engage in various outside trainings. The focus does not appear to be primarily financial, in my view. The outside trainings, especially Shim Sung, are very transformative. I myself was very transformed. I got in touch with a lot of emotional depth which I had buried under a lot of workaholism. Emotions are not really emphasized in mainstream Buddhism. They are not to be repressed, but there are not really effective Buddhist practices I have encountered which deal directly with emotions. Ditto Christianity, Judiasm, Islam, Hinduism. Dahn is a complete, wholistic practice system which is congruent with virtually everybody.
I guess like with all Westerners, it comes down to money. If someone appears to be making a profit right there in the open, they are scorned and secretly envied. This is the Western spiritual practice of "one-up put-down." Just be a little successful and, when word gets out, see how you are treated.
There are two kinds of movements. Those which are well-funded and those which are poorly funded. In the latter, fundraising becomes one of the primary organizational focuses. Bake sales, raffles, collections, grant writing, faith-based inititiatives, become at least 50% of the focus of such an organization and sometimes closer to 80%. It becomes a matter of survival.
Dahn facilities are very clean, beautiful and well-run. The funding issues are handled up-front by charging all us middle class gripers a reasonable fee. An amount is charged for a Dahn function and it seems apparent that the charges facilitate very comfortable settings for the seminars and practices. Mago Garden is excellent, and obviously constructed on a careful budget. The trainings such as Shim Sung are conducted in well-appointed hotel facilities. The underlying stress which pervades functions of underfunded spiritual organizations detracts from the whole experience. Dahn does not have this problem.
Sure, Dahn charges a good deal, but few say you don't get what you pay for. There are a lot of approaches to Dahn, and if you don't want to go full bore, you can approach it at your own level. Dahn's audience are adults capable of explaining that they don't want to get into the program beyond a certain point. If you feel noodged, simply be firm about your level of commitment. Nobody gets dragged to these sessions by a press gang.
Maybe Dr. Il Che Lee is living in a nice home. I have no problem with that. He isn't living a lavish life style like some other so-called gurus such as Sun Myung Moon (who was convicted of tax fraud for looting the Unification Church). Dr. Lee spends his time giving speeches and seminars, meeting with dignitaries and spreading the word of world peace, seeking to create a generation of Earth Humans, inventing exercises and brain respiration techniques and the like. You never hear that he was passed out in Vegas behind one of the tables, or out on someone's yacht. There is absolutely no evidence that the money he has came to him in any improper way. He invented some very excellent devices and practices and as Westerners, we should realize that this is worth a good deal of money. If this stuff was being marketed commercially, the company would make a good deal of money and Dr. Lee would be in for significant royalties.
Great spiritual leaders of the past have not always lived in the hedgerows. The Holy Prophet Muhammad married well, and, after enduring a good deal of personal hardship, was supported by the Muslim in comfort. Hindu spiritual leaders are known to live well (although many are extreme ascetics). People tried to give Jesus material things, but his ministry was to the poor and he had to make the most of a short teaching period so he dwelt among a variety of people. The Buddha started out living as a prince. He renounced this kind of life and engaged in 6 years of stringent ascetic practices. Realizing that mere asceticism did not lead to enlightenment, he abandoned the pure ascetic approach for the Middle Way, which can be briefly summed up as taking things as they come and not becoming attached to them or letting either riches or poverty dominate your mind.
Marpa, one of the saints of Tibettan Buddhism, returned to Tibet after a sojourn in India, where he received the most escoteric teachings, and took up the position of a wealthy, married landowner, although he is recognized as being an individual of very high realization. Marpa trained Milaripa, the most beloved Tibettan saint, during this period. Milaripa spent 20 years wandering in the wilderness practicing and he is said to have reached enlightenment. Material circumstances of a person, so long as they are not defiled, do not define that person's spirituality. Milaripa never condemned Marpa for living well.
Dr. Lee I hope lives very well. Unless he is living on misappropriated donations, I really don't have a problem with his life style. There is absolutely no evidence that he is living on donations. If you are in his presence, you realize that he is a realized practitioner with a clear mind. The Dahn organization proves this, because it takes difficult spiritual concepts and practices and makes them very accessible right down to the physical level.
Another "gotcha" seems to be that there are people in the Dahn organization who are working cheap. Maybe they need to unionize? Anyhow, I never met anyone in Dahn who was not a sane adult making a choice. If you want more financial compensation, health care and the like, get an outside job which provides these things. I have worked at the IRS Exempt Organizations Division examining cult-like organizations which claim to be tax-exempt. I don't get the feeling that anyone in the Dahn organization is being forced or brainwashed into doing anything. The peer pressure as in any organization can possibly be strong, and everyone has an individual story to tell. But there does not appear to be a systematic attempt to recruit those psycologically vulnerable to cult exploitation. Many religious organizations have attracted people who want to remain single and wholeheartedly deducated. Catholic clergy, Buddhist monks and lamas, ascetics of all types abound. In fact, I do not think that Dahn has any strict formula for being a family person or a single person, although to achieve the highest Dahn has to offer, you need to be able to make a serious time commitment.
Lastly, when you start on a spiritual practice path, the first thing you encounter is the stuff in your makeup that is the least pleasant. Jesus was tempted by the devil. The Buddha, on the eve of his manifesting complete enlightenment, underwent extensive temptations by the devil. When you pull the cork out of the bottle, everything comes out. Unfortunately, some people on the spiritual path get to a point of extreme discomfort. Monastic settings have ways of dealing with this, but some of this stuff can come up as a result of Dahn practices too. It happened to me. Although Dahn is a human organization like every other, the masters are able to work with these situations and they are alert for something like this happening. Like doctors, who cannot guarantee a cure, a Dahn master can only do their best. It is not the system that is at fault, but rather it is the fault of human nature, exposed to the pure light of Ki. If you never do anything to improve, you will simply drag all this stuff into your next lifetime, where who knows how it will manifest? If you are looking for a perfect set of practices which do not bring these issues to light, please search diligently and report to me immediately when you find it.
Personally, I endorse Dahn without reservation. I highly recommend it to anyone. I regret that I came to it so late in life and that my own resources are not sufficient to allow me to go further faster, although I identify myself on a gradual track to becoming a master.
What would you rather do? Let a job beat you to death, then move to a retirement condo in Florida, or spend your life trying to realize the goal of improving the world's energy and reversing the obvious trend downward?
Dahn Defense
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: October 23, 2004 12:47AM
I have received very serious complaints about Dahn from families, former members and other concerned individuals.
See [www.culteducation.com]
I would not recommend the group to anyone under any circumstances.
See [www.culteducation.com]
I would not recommend the group to anyone under any circumstances.
Dahn Defense
Posted by:
Cosmophilospher
()
Date: October 23, 2004 01:22AM
This "defense" statement reads like a severe indictment!
This last sentence really stands out to me..."my own resources are not sufficient to allow me to go further faster".
You are being tricked that spending more money will lead to personal spiritual growth. (kinda ironic, don't ya think?)
Reminds me of a title of an old book, "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him".
Coz
This last sentence really stands out to me..."my own resources are not sufficient to allow me to go further faster".
You are being tricked that spending more money will lead to personal spiritual growth. (kinda ironic, don't ya think?)
Reminds me of a title of an old book, "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him".
Coz
Dahn Defense
Posted by:
SarahL
()
Date: October 23, 2004 03:49AM
Quote
What would you rather do? Let a job beat you to death, then move to a retirement condo in Florida, or spend your life trying to realize the goal of improving the world's energy and reversing the obvious trend downward?
Some of my own personal thoughts on this quote, nothing personal intended, simply using it to explore some alternatives:
This is a trap question, assumes that there are only two choices. Either black or white, all or nothing, downward or upward.
Also states that the “trend downward” is obvious.
Surely this is quite a limited view, myriad options are not even considered.
Might be used here as a rhetorical question, for effect, no answer really expected other than possibly nodding heads and agreement if the sales job is successful.
What could be done differently? All or nothing thinking can be seen as a cognitive distortion. If I found myself thinking something along these lines, I could identify the distortion, examine the evidence rather than make assumptions, experiment, brainstorm other possibilities that are shaded gray rather than black or white., rethink my terms and choice of language.
Happily, for me, it all is no longer a case of either – or. I could never meditate or chant or devote myself to a guru again…….and……..I can still do the best I can, question, experiment, learn, participate in what positive social change I want to. And enjoy.
(Inspiration from Ten Ways to Untwist Your Thinking from [u:cf3e2a8f41]The Feeling Good Handbook [/u:cf3e2a8f41]by David D. Burns, M.D.)
Sarah
Dahn Defense
Posted by:
yourmaster
()
Date: October 25, 2004 11:08AM
Its ok to make money. But what ever happene to the great guru or great leader who gave out knowledge freely as a benefit to mankind?
Beware the scams and parasites who prey upon your mind with slick words.
Love,
YOURMASTER :)
Beware the scams and parasites who prey upon your mind with slick words.
Love,
YOURMASTER :)
Dahn Defense
Posted by:
Peony
()
Date: November 07, 2004 05:53PM
Hi,
He started a brain research institute in Korea years ago and now started the Ilchi Center for Brain Research in the US that studies the psychic powers of children after using his “Brain Respiration” program. His brand of “new science” is more new age than scientific. I have to wonder what kind of brain scientist Lee could be if he is still making that old claim that we humans use just 10% of our brain?
Lee claims that various universities have conducted or are now conducting research to prove that BR is effective. For one, Ilchi Lee invited UCI's Dr. Cotman to a conference he held in Korea and suddenly UCI was purportedly collaborating on research to study BR. Well, it was simply not true, and Dr. Cotman’s office will tell you that. What else is he lying about, one must wonder.
Ilchi Lee markets his BR program as an ESP (he calls it HSP, as in “heightened”) enhancer in children. He sets children up to pretend (or he tricks them to believe) they are reading through blindfolds and sticking spoons to their faces telekinetically, and reading through the covers of books after doing his brand of meditation, patting their bodies, and dancing around in his special BR way. I say let him prove these paranormal powers to James Randi!! I cringe seeing this BR BS making its way into public schools.
He started his “International Graduate University for Peace” in Korea. Sounds like a fine academic institution, a place where you can earn a doctorate in subjects such as…Brain Respiration?! Pretty lame, if you ask me.
At one of his websites they show a photo of him receiving an award from the city of Atlanta. How nice. And in the background you can see a poster that was created by a woman who is suing him for selling her product as if it were his own. Not nice.
I’m glad to see that someone is getting something out of his Dahnhak program, but please use some discernment before you get too emotionally invested, not to mention financially invested.
Peony
He started a brain research institute in Korea years ago and now started the Ilchi Center for Brain Research in the US that studies the psychic powers of children after using his “Brain Respiration” program. His brand of “new science” is more new age than scientific. I have to wonder what kind of brain scientist Lee could be if he is still making that old claim that we humans use just 10% of our brain?
Lee claims that various universities have conducted or are now conducting research to prove that BR is effective. For one, Ilchi Lee invited UCI's Dr. Cotman to a conference he held in Korea and suddenly UCI was purportedly collaborating on research to study BR. Well, it was simply not true, and Dr. Cotman’s office will tell you that. What else is he lying about, one must wonder.
Ilchi Lee markets his BR program as an ESP (he calls it HSP, as in “heightened”) enhancer in children. He sets children up to pretend (or he tricks them to believe) they are reading through blindfolds and sticking spoons to their faces telekinetically, and reading through the covers of books after doing his brand of meditation, patting their bodies, and dancing around in his special BR way. I say let him prove these paranormal powers to James Randi!! I cringe seeing this BR BS making its way into public schools.
He started his “International Graduate University for Peace” in Korea. Sounds like a fine academic institution, a place where you can earn a doctorate in subjects such as…Brain Respiration?! Pretty lame, if you ask me.
At one of his websites they show a photo of him receiving an award from the city of Atlanta. How nice. And in the background you can see a poster that was created by a woman who is suing him for selling her product as if it were his own. Not nice.
I’m glad to see that someone is getting something out of his Dahnhak program, but please use some discernment before you get too emotionally invested, not to mention financially invested.
Peony
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