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richiekgb
is this ennosti a bot?

I will come back to this in a second; thank you in advance, moderator, for allowing me to respond to this... :D

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richiekgb
the bot likes the writings of Mike Perry (the guy that reputedly cut off his own manhood)

And this too ;)


For now, though, I want the suspense to build up a bit with something I forgot to ask regarding your comment "cryonics will tarnish the noble science of cryobiology": what is your general view of science? Do you think scientific researchers "nobly" follow their research wherever it may lead in order to further knowledge, whatever that knowledge might be? Or do you think most scientists work in areas where funding is available, funding that society makes available through corporations seeking profits and government bodies featuring politicians seeking reelection? If it is the latter, then what happens when little funding is provided because most people feel "death gives meaning to life" and other such deep philosophical stuff? For a look into the competitive nature of science, here are five DNA videos featuring the hysterical James Watson: [www.dailymotion.com]

Well anyways, thank you for visiting my unencrypted links, such as the video with Dr. Wowk. It is always great to see people who are willing to learn, and not focus on tabloid material; people who focus on tabloid material are precisely the problem with cryonics. On that note, I may appear bot-like at times, but let me tell you about this one guy I met online. I knew something was odd given that he did not even pay for hosting, but instead created a Google Site filled with disorganized information copied and pasted from the Internet. And then when I went to the About Us page, I was met with the following picture which made it all clear:

[bit.ly]

Quote
richiekgb
ennosti.... head or tale....

uggc://jjj.lbhghor.pbz/jngpu?i=z_zQGYcuVIL


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This is the standard cryonics baffle them with bullshit technique.

Mike Perry? Who is that guy?
Mike Perry is a [forum.culteducation.com]
"an ordained minister of the Society for Venturism and performs wedding ceremonies and memorial services for this IRS-recognized, scientific and religious organization. He is also a cofounder and past president of the Society for Universal Immortalism..."

Notice the mind-screwing right there...Scientific/Religious organization? Which is it? It is NOT scientific, its pseudoscience or Antiscience. In fact its a religious organization.
It is the CHURCH of Venturism, in fact, and he is an ordained minister of the Immortalist religious sect.

Being the founder of the "Society for Universal Immortalism" is hardly an endorsement for objective info.
The guy is deeply involved in the business/religion of cryonics, so he is completely biased. That is like asking an Amway Rep if Amway toilet paper is the best.

If you want a bizarre cultish sounding cryonics wedding/funeral in the Church Of Venturism, then perhaps his rates are reasonable. (or perhaps expensive?). The Church of Venturism, certainly fits into the Cults/Sects-New Religious Movement category, as does seem to have cultish tendencies, but they are very secretive, and quite small at this time.


But back to the baffle them with bullshit cryonics stuff.
Obviously the body and its cells and tissues are full of water, so cells will be destroyed when frozen and unfrozen. Filling the veins/body with cryonics anti-freeze is going to have no effect on those tissue areas of the body.

When freezing cells for reproduction, all the water has to be carefully drained out of each single cell before it is frozen.
But that is done with only a few cells for reproduction tech.

Freezing the entire body/head is a scam, a fraud, a joke, a con. Its ridiculous. To freeze and entire body like that, its destroyed, the brain is destroyed. You are freezing a huge piece of dead destroyed tissue.
As stated 100x times, the cryonics Antiscience is bad enough. But all the tricky financial scamolas around cryonics are worse.



Melody Maxim has said she will stand up for what she says, so one assumes they are taking her at her word, which defeats the purpose of a SLAPP. One can also logically assume the cryonics powers-that-be are waiting to see how their current SLAPP suit plays out.

''The Appearance of Scienciness"


""Proprietization* of Common Sense"
*Branding/Copyrighting


Interested participants may find this new book worth a peek

[www.amazon.com]

and this:

"The appearance of “scienciness”: the diagrams and graphs, the experiments (where exactly was that study published?) that prove their efficacy are all superficially plausible, with enough of a “hassle barrier” to deter a closer look. Dr. Goldacre (a very boyish-looking 36-year-old British physician and author of the popular weekly “Bad Science” column in The Guardian) shows us why that closer look is necessary and how to do it.

You’ll get a good grounding in the importance of evidence-based medicine (the dearth of which is a “gaping” hole in our culture). You’ll learn how to weigh the results of competing trials using a funnel plot, the value of meta-analysis and the Cochrane Collaboration. He points out common methodological flaws: failure to blind the researchers to what is being tested and who is in a control group, misunderstanding randomization, ignoring the natural process of regression to the mean, the bias toward positive results in publication. “Studies show” is not good enough, he writes: “The plural of ‘anecdote’ is not data.”
"
and

What he (Goldacre)does object to is the “proprietorialization of common sense.” Adding sciency flourishes and a big price tag to the advice may enhance the placebo effect, “but you might also wonder whether the primary goal is something much more cynical and lucrative: to make common sense copyrightable, unique, patented and owned.”

"


[www.nytimes.com]

ah sometimes people just take things too seriously - myself included

so for fun: Drac's Back

[www.youtube.com]


I wanna suck your blood.....


Lets face it thinking you can freeze someones dead bodie to save thier life in the future is actually pretty funny really!

And Mike Perry did cut off his own penis as well - Apparently so it would not distract him anymore

LOL - a Cryonic's Eunnuch

Sorry if its all bad taste but at the end of the day I have a sense of humour too - this thread needs some light relief sometimes...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2010 02:26AM by richiekgb.

Melody on Fedowitz

[cryomedical.blogspot.com]

There are many way's to argue your point across.

A Perfusionist/Doctor like Melody Maxim makes a excellent critic on the medical side of things as she can use the appropiate language and has a proper understanding of her arguments.

Cryonic fanatic love to argue with scientists but sometimes the arguements are not just scientific.

Enoonsti - like it or not people that are Currently running and promoting Cryonic Preservation are pretty dirty and I choose to argue with them on that level. The abuse, manipulation and other strange cultlike behaviour's of the people involved is INTERESTING. It also questions why the hell these people are ALLOWED to continue and why do people continue to support them? Also when the critisism of the more questionable behaviour is aired we are told we are resorting to Tabloidism and are not being "fair"!


These people do what they want in the name of their "faith" and REAL PEOPLE have been hurt as a result.

Funeral Arrangements have been wrecked
There have been long protracted court cases with greiving familys
Families have been destroyed because of peoples obsessions with cryonics
People have been scammed out of money
Children have been "brainwashed" and lied to
People have been threatened with their lives

the list goes on

Why should anybody want to argue with cryonics fanatics at a sensible scientific level about feasibility - its obvious its not a science and does not really deserve more than the 2-3 line dismissals it normally gets.

(below is a quote of some relevant text)


----------QUOTE--------------------
[amormundi.blogspot.com]

jimf said...

Larry Johnson, in _Frozen_, talks about the Venturists
and their property at the Creekside Lodge in Arizona:
(p. 150)"

"The Creekside Lodge was off Arizona Route 69, in the township
of Mayer, outside Prescott, Arizona. Prescott was a pretty little
city known for its hiking trails and Old West history. The
area was greener and hillier than the surrounding desert.

[David] Pizer was one of those prominent Alcorians who believed
some sort of Armageddon was coming. Pizer, however, was actively
preparing for it, building a survivalist community of cryonicists
that was remote and secluded, yet only an hour and a half away
from Alcor's dewars.

From what I gathered that weekend, Pizer's Creekside Lodge was
one part survivalist camp, one part religious cult compound, and
one part travel motel. When the place wasn't closed down for
an Alcor training session or cryonics soiree, families rented
cabins by the night. Since the full name of the place was
the "Creekside Preserve," some Alcorians punned on the double
meaning of the word and called it "The Preserve" (using the
word as it pertained to a natural habitat, and also as it related
to cryonic cold storage).

Pizer and his followers, though, referred to the compound as
Ventureville, which was in itself pretty creepy. Pizer lived there
with his wife and John Grigg, his most dedicated disciple. Grigg
was the manager of the Creekside Lodge, but his main function,
as far as I could tell, was to worship the ground Pizer walked
on.

On his Web site, Pizer referred to himself as "El Patron." Charles
told me he had started out as a car upholstery salesman or something.
After spending a weekend there, though, I believed David Pizer
was basically a cult leader.

Pizer had formed his own religion, originally called the Church
of Venturism, then renamed the Society for Venturism (though it
remained, on the books, a religion).


Mike Perry was a big pal of Pizer's and an ordained minister in the church.
He provided wedding services. This was no joke. I don't think I would
have opted to be married by a man who had removed his own testicles
with a razor and then intentionally severed the nerves to his
penis. Father Mike wasn't someone I'd send my confused teenage
son to for counseling.

Pizer's followers called themselves Venturists. I had met a few
of them at that Alcorian meeting at the Barnes & Noble in
Santa Monica, California. Back then they had struck me as very
intense and focused young men. Whereas some other Alcorians
enjoyed the sci-fi, flying-car mystique of cryonics, the Venturists
took it much more seriously.

Spending time with them on their own turf, so to speak, I realized
that they considered themselves frontiersmen. More than just the
outdoor types, they were survivalists. I saw cases upon cases of
canned food and water stored around Ventureville, and vast
amounts of medical supplies. . .

11:37 AM jimf said...

During my weekend stay, at night, the Venturists gathered around
a fire pit -- after sharing dinner in a large common dining room --
and talked in antigovernment slurs about federal law enforcement
and how President Bush was too soft on crime. American society
was breaking down, they said. Some explained to me that they
felt fortunate to have found David Pizer, the great man who would
lead them into a new civilization after this one inevitably
fell into ruins. Several Venturists spoke to me in clear
terms of preparing for a "holocaust." In truth, these men scared
me. They struck me as malcontents looking for something to
belong to, loners looking for a father figure and, God help them,
they though they'd found it in David Pizer.

The Venturists had a Web site that I came across later. In their
"Bylaws" section, one of the "primary objectives and purposes"
they listed was "To furnish a friendly, supportive community for
persons who wish to act rationally to bring about the abolition
of death and the establishment of a free society of immortals."

Elsewhere, in their Web site's "About Us" section, they wrote
that they advocated respect and love for others, yet they were
"willing to defend others against danger. We must be ready to
put our lives on the line if necessary (as in the case, for
example, of a physical threat to a cryonics patient.)"

In conversation, they explained their beliefs to me a little
more aggressively. Venturism is essentially the pursuit of
physical immortality, they told me around that fire pit.
Since science and medicine could not guarantee physical
immortality yet, the Venturists turned to cryonics to suspend
them until medical technology caught up. To them, cryonic
suspension was the means by which they would live long enough --
that is, forever -- to bring about the advanced society
that their leader, Pizer, had envisioned. In my experience,
Alcorians were often arrogant, believing themselves to be
the smart ones. Talking to these young men, though, it seemed
that while many Alcor members hoped for a second life after
cryo-suspension, these Venturists expected it. Out of all
humanity, they believed they were the few who deserved
immortality, that it was their due. They were the chosen.

Jerry Lemler always seemed to be seeking followers but was
never charismatic enough to draw them. Pizer was another
story. Frankly, it terrifies me still to think what the
man seemed capable of. Pizer was one of the Alcorian leaders,
Charles told me, originally arrested during the Dora Kent
homicide investigation.

David Pizer pioneered a cryonics trust fund in which he was
leaving his money to his future self. If it worked out, with
interest, he'd have billions of dollars waiting for him
when he reanimated and he'd be, according to what he told
the _Wall Street Journal_, "the richest man in the world." . . .

11:39 AM jimf said...

Being on David Pizer's property gave me the creeps. There was
a real quaint, rustic, log-cabin feel to the place but at
the same time there were the stores of food, water, and
medical supplies that pointed to some darker preparedness.
When I mentioned the cases of food and water, Charles raised
his eyebrows and said, "Have you seen the weapons?"

These were the hardest-core true believers of the entire
hard-core cryonicist bunch. After seeing them fawn over El Patron,
I believe that to say they worshipped Pizer would not be
an exaggeration. And with what I would call a raging Messiah
complex, Pizer happily encouraged it. Pizer carried himself
like the father of a large family. His word was law. He
spoke with an air of infallibility and the Venturists hung
on his every word. When I dealt personally with the Branch
Davidians in Waco, I saw people under the control of a charismatic
leader, ready to kill or die for him. I saw that same look
in the eyes of the Venturists.

Like many other cryonicist leaders, Pizer dabbled in writing
science fiction. He had self-published a novel about a
man diagnosed with a terminal illness who was cryonically preserved
and then reanimated in the twenty-second century. Charles
told me that, sometimes, Pizer sat his followers down around
the fire and read his short stories to them. It made me
think that if only these zealous cryonics leaders had achieved
commercial success as writers, maybe they would have laid off
the dark obsessions, the way Hitler might never have caused
so much horrendous damage to humanity if he had found early
success as a painter.

In my estimation, after having seen both places beforehand,
Ventureville was another Waco waiting to happen. The only
difference between David Pizer and David Koresh was that
Pizer claimed his religion was based on science. Underneath it
all, though, it felt to me like his main objective was
simply to have militant, dedicated followers hanging on his
every word and command.

And then there was Pizer's personal fortune. He could fund
virtually anything his mind cooked up. Imagine was David Koresh
could have done with a $10 million bankroll.

When that weekend training session finished, I was relieved
to get the hell out of Ventureville.

--------------------------------------------------

There are many sects where some members engage in mutilation of the physical body.
Some are encourage to donate organs while still alive, or just shave their heads, or pull their teeth, and things along those lines.

In the Heavens Gate suicide cult, members underwent surgical castration.


QUOTE: [en.wikipedia.org]
"Seven of the male members of the group, including Applewhite, voluntarily underwent castration in Mexico as an extreme means of maintaining the ascetic lifestyle."
[www.culteducation.com]
"five of his male followers had themselves surgically castrated like their leader."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2010 07:41AM by The Anticult.

LArry Johnson on Mike Perry

- [sites.google.com]