Current Page: 47 of 53
How someone rational comes to believe very strange things
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 31, 2016 10:41PM

How someone sincere and rational comes to believe very strange things.

Thanks to Tony Ortega, the journalist who gives us current coverage on the Church of Scientology (CO$), I found his reference to an old and great article by
language expert S.I. Hayakawa that reviewed L.Ron Hubbard's book, Dianetics.

Jon Atack: The best thing ever written about the language traps in Scientology’s Bible, ‘Dianetics’


Professor Hayakawa wrote about science fiction, specifically pulp science fiction suggesting special dangers for both writers and readers who lacked an ability to
care about the distinction between the concrete and the abstract, non-fiction vs. fiction.

Corboy suggests that this might well apply not only to writers and readers of science fiction but also those who market or are exposed to theosophical systems, anthroposophy, fantasy novels, perhaps those who expose themselves to material online and become self radicalized.

Here is Hayakawa's article:


Here are some excerpts from that article:


When done well, the value of the genre is that, in treating the remotely possible or conceivable as if it had already occurred, it helps prepare the reader for the shape of things to come. (Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea, for example, was written in 1869.) But good science-fiction is not too common. Much of it today is written hastily and according to formula, to meet the unceasing demands of the pulps.

I have long felt that there are dangers to the writer as well as to the reader in pulp fiction. It did not occur to me until I read Dianetics to try to analyze the special dangers entailed in the profession of science-fiction writing. The art consists in concealing from the reader, for novelistic purposes, the distinctions between established scientific facts, almost-established scientific hypotheses, scientific conjectures, and imaginative extrapolations far beyond what has even been conjectured. The danger of this technique lies in the fact that, if the writer of science-fiction writes too much of it too fast and too glibly and is not endowed from the beginning with a high degree of semantic self-insight (consciousness of abstracting), he may eventually succeed in concealing the distinction between his facts and his imaginings from himself. In other words, the space-ships and the men of Mars and the atomic disintegrator pistols acquire so vivid a verbal existence that they may begin to have, in the writer's evaluations, 'actual' existence. Like Willy Loman in The Death of a Salesman, he may eventually fall for his own, pitch.

Of course, there is nothing wrong with literary imaginings as such. Even Frederick Rolfe ('Count Corvo'), one of the great paranoids of literary history, who in Hadrian the Seventh pictured in vivid and dramatic detail his daydream of overcoming his enemies and traducers and being elected Pope, presented his imaginings as a novel. In other words, Rolfe remained a novelist; he never came to believe that he was the Pope.

Hubbard, however, goes farther. The slick craftsman of mass-production science-fiction, mustering his talents and energies for a supreme effort, produces - and what could be more reasonable? - a fictional science. Had Dianetics been presented as fiction - as, let us say, the discovery revealed to our hero, Dick Savage, by the mysterious scientist, Dr. Vladimir Nemo, in the spring of 2013 A.D. in the Cosmic Ray Solarium of the fashionable Olympia Hotel in Lhasa, now a favorite summer resort for wealthy American poets and commissars - it might have been, like other ingenious science-fiction, good entertainment. It might even have stimulated scientific imagination, as no doubt Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea stimulated the imaginations of naval architects and engineers.

('Dick Savage' 'Dr. Vladimir Nemo' -- Hayakawa has invented some sci-fiction characters for purposes of comparison -- C)

But in the book Dianetics, Hubbard does not write as a novelist. He is, he says, a scientist. He has discovered - nay, created - a new science of the human mind which, in one swell foop, renders obsolete the psychological gropings of Wundt, James, Pavlov, Kraepelin, Charcot, Janet, Freud, Jung,
Adler, Lewin, Thorndike, Kohler, Moreno, Reik, Menninger, Masserman, Rogers, and all the work of the neuropsychologists to boot. Of this new 'science' of dianetics, Hubbard's book says (his italics), 'The hidden source of all psychosomatic ills and human aberration has been discovered and skills have been developed for their invariable cure.' This sentence appears on the first page of the book, of which the opening sentence has been widely and derisively quoted by reviewers: 'The creation of dianetics is a milestone for Man comparable to his discovery of fire and superior to his inventions of the wheel and arch.' 2

Options: ReplyQuote
Seb Peace Listened 2 Deepak Chopra & Wrote NU Age BS Code
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 07, 2016 03:03AM

Seb Peace listened to Deepak Chopra participate in a 'dialogue'.

He wrote a blog post about it.


Peace could see the appeal in Chopra's material as well as Chopra's fallacious reasoning; as Peace put it, you want this to be true. If you're someone is disoriented and powerless, applying critical thinking and trusting your gut are both difficult to do. All human beings are going to go through these crises. Intelligence and education are no protection.

Peace decided that comedy might be a way to address the situation and created
the New Age Bullshit Generator.

Seb Pearce's New Age Bullshit Generator



Some old humor classics


Google citations here:


Some older humor classics here:

The Secret Saved My Life! by Ari Broulliard



re you in need of some "Inner Peace" right now?

I believe that we could all use a little more calmness in our lives.


It has been said, "The way to achieve inner peace is to finish all the
things you have started and have never finished."

I looked around my house to see all the things I had started and hadn't finished,
and before leaving the house I finished off:

*A bottle of White Zinfandel
*A bottle of Tequila,
*A package of Oreo's
*The remainder of my old Prozac prescription**
*The rest of the cheesecake
*Some Doritos
*A box of chocolates.
You have no idea how marvelously great I feel right now...the INNER PEACE is like WOW!!!!

**(Corboy: All this is a joke. A JOKE. Don't combine RX medications with alcohol--you could poison yourself up and perhaps die. Two, that amount of alcohol might kill someone. All the above is just a joke. Don't try this at home)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Recovering from New Age Mumbo Jumbo
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 19, 2016 12:23AM

US Food and Drug Aministration reports on contaminants in some imported goji berries and FDA warnings to those who claimed goji gave specific health benefits.

(Use Cntrl+F button and enter goji into the slot to locate references to the berries)


Goji berries are wolfberries, the latter being much cheaper to purchase.



Submitted by Blog - Henriette on 22 February, 2006 - 10:00
Botanical name: Lycium barbarum
Goji berries are your normal Lycium berries.

The following is gleaned from a recent discussion on a mailing list for herbalists:

1) Both Lycium eleagnus pungens and Lycium eleagnus barbarum are manufactured names; there is no such thing, botanically. The berry sold under those names is your normal Lycium barbarum or wolfberry.
2) There is no such thing as wild Tibetan goji berries. These, too, are normal Lycium barbarum berries. Ditto for Himalayan goji.
3) The so-called Tibetan-grown goji berries are a) normal lycium berries (Lycium barbarum), and b) Mongolian-grown, like the rest of the Lycium berries on the market.
4) Lycium is in the Solanaceae (nightshade family). Elaeagnus is in the Elaeagnaceae (oleaster family). They are not related, nor have they been each other's synonyms.
5) You can buy lycium berries (Lycium barbarum) in bulk herb stores at $7-$10 a pound. Good quality lycium berries are the same stuff that is sold as goji for a far higher price. By the way, sulphured lycium berries are bright red-orange, and they are not good quality.
6) The statement that Chinese-grown Lycium berries are pesticide-laden is just commercial competitor-bashing. If somebody tries to tell you that ask them for the lab reports.

The name "goji berry" comes of course from the Chinese name for lycium: Gou Qi Zi. It helps to know that qi is pronounced "chi".

There. Now, don't get hoodwinked, don't hop onto bandwagons, and don't buy goji berries. Buy unsulphured lycium berries instead. Your wallet will thank you.


Earlier article posted on this message board about the goji berry story.


Options: ReplyQuote
How to ID a people abuser
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 10, 2016 11:50PM

How To Spot A Spiritual Sexual Predator


Corboy note:

Marc Gafni has associated with Ken Wilber for a long time.


Ken W has also endorsed Andrew Cohen


KW also endorsed Adi Da


Wilber also likes Ayn Rand's objectivism


Randianism is much loved by those who fetishize power, money, and regard
those deemed inferior to be mere fleshly detritus to be kicked aside.

Options: ReplyQuote
False memories are socially contagious
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 22, 2016 04:50AM

Some of the findings discussed in this article may account for the spread
of miracle stories, such as wonder tales about gurus, avatars, visions.

(Grim) This can also account for how socially destructive false memory
syndrome led to children being pressured by over eager therapists to make accusations of ritual abuse or molestation.

Families were destroyed. People's lives were distroyed.



For an eye opening history of how exorcism and satanic panic became a social
contagion in the mid 20th century, get and read sociologist Michael Cuneo's
book, American Exorcism.


To be human is to be influence-able - New Understanding

Corboy: One thing that may keep us trapped in abusive relationships or ignore
warning signs is that we share so many many memories-and the emotions tied to those memories-- with the abusive person. Shared history.

One very common characteristic of abusive persons and groups is that they
isolate us in such a way that we share many of our most powerful memories
with the abusive person or group - and with no one else. Exit the
abusive relationship and yes, you will find liberty, but short term,
you have the pain of being sole custodian to memories that are highly potent.


No mind is an island, after all – and despite the errors that other people may bring, our memories benefit from their input. This ties into the concept of ‘the extended mind’ – the increasing recognition that our environment plays a crucial role in our thoughts. “We tend to think of the mind as something that’s beneath the surface of skin but really so much of our actions are scaffolded by external artefacts and practices,” says Hirst.

This tendency for human groups to shape a commonly held recollection of key
events, by altering, inventing or suppressing memories while enhancing memories
appears to be a valuable means of human socialization and long term survival
for a group.

But like all that makes us human and humane, this is a characteristic that
can be used against us by exploitative persons and groups.

Which is why Cult Education Institute and other groups like it have come
into existence.


Iannone asked subjects to rate statements such as “my best friend and I can remind each other of things we know” and questioned them about the quality of the friendship.

Sure enough, she found that the longest, strongest and most trusting friendships seemed to be built around these shared, interconnected memory systems. Iannone suspects that we may choose to build our memory around our friendship; if you know your friend is around for restaurant recommendations, you may opt never to read good food guides yourself. “Is it possible that you don't develop knowledge in an area your best friend has a lot of knowledge in?”

Even the aspects of social influence that may at first seem like a disadvantage – such as the retrieval-induced forgetting and the contagious false memories – may provide some unexpected benefits, by sculpting our recollections so that we all remember the same details.

“For me, one of the things that promotes sociality is common understanding of the past,” says Hirst. “All memories shape our identity, and collective memories may shape our collective identities.”

We are not the sole authors of our autobiography – and we may all be stronger for that fact.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: How to ID a people abuser
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 01, 2016 09:58AM

Integral Options Cafe - article on Marc Gafni (endorsed by Wilber)

Sunday, May 22, 2016
Donna Zerner: The Shadow Behind The Light (on her experience with Marc Gafni)


Integral Options Cafe: Regularly Updated List of Articles about Marc Gafni


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Recovering from New Age Mumbo Jumbo
Posted by: Incultrecovery ()
Date: October 03, 2016 10:42PM

Beautiful post. Thank you.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Recovering from New Age Mumbo Jumbo
Posted by: Last resort ()
Date: October 06, 2016 04:33PM

New age avatar of our days Derek O'Neill is offering "help" with the energy body. This person is arguing for the celebration of death. He will help to go through " bardo" to the light future.
Very dangerous as James John for possible massacres. So far collects people's money in big amounts for doing energy work in a distance and psychological manipulation with NLP.

Options: ReplyQuote
It takes years to learn the real truth about any church or group
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 14, 2016 11:55PM

If you are having misgivings about a group or relationship you are in, just cannot put your finger on it, here's something to try.

A question we can ask is, "Do I feel as though I have to stay on the surface, stay busy, busy with group assigned tasks or face disapproval?

A new member of the message board, "Heart-Heart Balance" has written an
essay describing how a particular church community created a culture which
led people to hide, then disown their true selves.

To look good on the outside, look functional on the outside while concealing
a world of hurt.

As Heart Heart put it, so long as one went only by her pastor's sermons and radio shows, all was excellent. But it took years of living as a member of the church for Heart Heart to recognize that relationships were shallow, that no real intimacy was possible. It takes years to learn what is not said. A church teaches non verbally as well as verbally, teaches non verbally via relationships as well as verbally.


"I would say, “You can’t impart what you don’t possess” meaning how can you move into the life of another when you have not dealt with your own issues? I believe this is the first step of humility"

Does or did your group's verbal behavior match and cohere with the non verbal
relational behaviors within the church community?

Corboy suggests that readers make a copy of "Head-Heart Imbalance"s essay. Then, use the Find and Replace command.

Substitute the name of the group you are concerned about with the name of the church HH belonged to.

If your group has a bookstore or publisher, substitute that name for the bookstore and publisher mentioned in HH's post.

One family monopolized running HH's church. Substitute the relevant names in your group.

Substitute the name of your master, sheikh, guru with the name of the pastor.

If your group uses (say) the Baghavad Gita, Inayat Khan, substitute the names of those books for the Bible.



So what happens if you are one who struggles beneath the surface


There is much good at this church. It was said previously, but when push comes to shove, a similar phrase will be echoed, that being, "The teaching is good, therefore..." Back in the 80's, while I was in the college group, there was a joke surrounding the fact that the "love one anothers" was secondary to accurate expository teaching. In fact, I would say GCC is more a bible college than an actual church. Teaching is the primary focus and imo the distinctive way to manage such a large church. How do you manage the lives of 10,000 people? Keep them very busy! This church has little time for life's mess and complications.

So what happens if you are one who struggles beneath the surface with addictions, OCD, bipolar, same sex attraction and a host of other "disorders?" In short, you are screwed! Strong wording I realize, but when you experience how callous leadership can be, how naive, how controlling mere words fall far short compared to actually hurting others in the name of "love for God and biblical integrity." Again, Pharisaical hangover is alive and well here!

There are some psychological aspects of this church that does reflect cults. One is the the strength of a very strong leader. This gives the sense of security. Most people are followers unwilling to think independently and critically. Religion can be a very empowering experience! Being part of a tribe makes one feel secure. Anyone upsetting this can be seen as a malcontent or worse, leading the flock astray.


My point here is if you walk with these folks, there are great inconsistencies. There is what I call a “head-heart split” and this is what we see in the quote above by the other poster. It takes time to get inside this culture! Listening only to podcasts or Mp3 messages will never unpack these nuances.

If you look closely at the marriages, you will see highly functional homes but little real intimacy. Stay busy! You will rarely hear any vulnerability or talk of emotions. Everything is very rational and intellectual. The head is very strong, but the emotions muted. You cannot shut off emotions, so they will leak out in subtle ways that manifest in control issues.

Again, how do you maintain control in a huge mega-church? Keep them busy, working, serving, and challenge them intellectually (the pastor is a bible teaching machine type personality which makes them VERY intimidating to approach) unless you speak their “seminary based language” and have the confidence to approach the “elephant in the room.”

Few people ever publicly challenge. Most people want the security of knowing they are right. John MacArthur provides this “emotional security” and “certainty.” I am NOT saying his teaching is wrong, but even with “right” teaching, these dynamics can take place. This is why you can have an “out of sight, out of mind” style of relating.


What is true reality, meaning, how do we really know how one lives unless you are close enough to experience these personalities (their marriages, kids, etc). If you do not attend GCC or do for less than several years, you will miss all this subtlety. It takes years to see through the external of this highly functional church. Judging MacArthur ONLY by radio sermons will never demonstrate relational issues.

I will give you an example of a Nouthetic counseling experience I had at another church (a sister church of GCC after I left. The pastors went to the Master’s Seminary and are 100% in alignment with GCC). I think this reflects GCC as well overall. You can judge for yourself..

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Recovering from New Age Mumbo Jumbo
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: January 06, 2017 09:53AM

Someone in recovery from addiction/codependence looked back and described his or her state of mind when still an active addict.




I couldn't tell an anecdote, it had to be an epic.
I did not have dialogues, I had monolgues.
I awfulized everything that happened to me, making me feel special.
My bad day was your bad day, too.

Another person commented:


To me it means they will do anything to keep their way of life from crumbling. They will tell you what you want to hear and also what they want you to hear. they can break you down little by little so you have no self esteem and you won't want to leave. They need someone, an enabler, to help them exist in their sick bubble. They talk down to you and you believe it.They say they love you and you believe it. They hit you and you apologize later.
Pretty soon your brain becomes just as sick as theirs. everything is twisted. Most times you could get up and leave when you felt like it was getting bad but not this can't leave...there are a million reasons why you have to stay. None of them are real but you are convinced they are. Being a recovering codie I can look back and see that I was a hostage. I didn't think so at the time...I knew something was wrong...but I thought it was all me. I was a prisoner in an invisible jail that I unknowingly helped create.
That's what the phrase means to me.

Corboy: This matches up with a lot of abusive guru behavior as reported by former disciples.

Instead of 'enabler' substitute 'disciple' or 'devotee'.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2017 09:58AM by corboy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Current Page: 47 of 53

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.