In case any trolls show up and repeat the usual distractions, ignore them.

Talk around them, the way water flows around rocks.

Never discuss the troll. They want you to focus on them instead of discussing Sogyal.

Too many posts by the usual trolls will wear out most readers and make them give up.

Thats what the trolls want. Moderators are advised for this reason to limit posts by known trolls. If a known troll makes plenty of posts, one can transfer these to a separate place where those who want to can read them.

To prevent the discord that has plagued Dialogue Ireland's discussions of Sogyal, (The moderstoars have since figured out what to do and now have a new policy in place)

send PMs (private messages) from unfamiliar users to Rick Ross, if these PM are dodgy in any way.

You can read the moderator by going here (handle is rrmoderator)

[forum.culteducation.com]

Never allow anyone to be nasty to you by PM. Because PM is private, it must be kept clean and free from bullying from Soyals troops.

To repeat, it shows Sogyal is no true teacher. If Sogyal were a true guru he would tell people to stop the trolling.

IMO Rigpa is to be avoided.

Not only because of Soygal but because under its banner march some of the most disruptive and tiresome trolls.

A true Dharma teacher and center is not a troll factory. Even if its an ancient lineage, if it produces trolls, thats a tip off that cultic behavior has set in.

Now...keep the focus on Sogyal and Rigpa.

PS If anyone sends me unpleasant PMs I will not reply.

I will put the the offending items in a specimen bag, and send to the moderator.

[dialogueireland.wordpress.com]

Quote

8. The Indie, on December 24, 2011 at 1:02 pm said:

And yes, I have been to Rigpa. In fact, Sogyal screwed my mates girlfriend after I took them there.

and

12. Anonymous, on December 24, 2011 at 6:50 pm said:
...

I suggest you also lose your Shangri la glasses. Most Tibetans are just humans like ourselves. Among them, like ourselves, there are some very great beings. SImilarly, there are some dodgy dealers out for personal gain.

Shangri la glasses make it so that we cant see things as they are but instead consider everything oriental to be on a higher spiritual plain. Wake up, some Tibetans are in it for the money, not all of them BUT some and, as long as people hold their rose tinted spectacles on their noses, the longer wily Tibetans (as opposed to the great Tibetan masters) will take every opportunity to screw every last cent out of their gullible victims

Hi, Indie. I hope you don't mind my asking, this is a serious inquiry. You took your friends to meet Sogyal. Two of your friends were in a committed relationship with each other. Somehow, Sogyal managed to seduce the woman. I'm trying to understand the psychology that allows such things to happen. I understand about how spiritual leaders are able to prey on emotionally needy members of their congregation. The majority of that type of case involves victims who were victimized as children. I understand, more or less, about Sogyal preying on the recently bereaved who come to him for guidance. It's about the trauma of bereavement, though I still don't understand that completely. But how does he manage to have a go at someone--accompanied by boyfriend, mind you--who is just dropping in for a visit?

Please don't get me wrong, my intent is not to blame women who fall for whatever his m.o. is. I'm trying to understand why someone, anyone, would have a casual fling with a fat, self-absorbed, by most accounts not very bright, stranger, and put what I assume to be a satisfactory relationship at risk? What is going on here? What did her boyfriend have to say about it? What did she have to say about it? One woman I've spoken with said that when she went to see Sogyal (decades ago) to discuss Buddhism, he raped her. I hope nothing so sinister was involved in the case you cite.

The thing is, this sort of thing goes on A LOT, and not just with Sogyal. Personally, I don't find these people attractive, and I find their come-ons to be a real turn-off. So I'm trying to understand the mind-set behind these encounters that are in a separate class from a) the devoted spiritual followers and b) the bereaved. I'm asking, because we have an opportunity to learn here, about the dynamic involved in this type of case. Having a better understanding of the dynamics in all these cases helps us be better advocates for victims. I've been through quite a learning curve already. Maybe there's more to the story, for example, maybe your friends were already admirers or devotees from a distance, so a certain mind-set was already in place, that Sogyal was able to take advantage of. Any light you could shed on this would be helpful.

the latest from dialogue ireland comments section.

The best way to benefit from comments is ignore the trolls and concentrate on the quality material.

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Marte-Micaela Riepe, on January 9, 2012 at 10:02 pm said:
Ex-Dakini,

you have all the the right in the world not to discuss with BellaB. There is nothing to answer. You know, what you have been exposed to and you wrote it in a plausible manner. Just leave her alone in her delusion!

Vera, on January 9, 2012 at 10:04 pm said:
If you’d bothered to actually read what ex-dakini said, she wrote:

“I did post on DI once before when the briefing document first came up. I have a hard time reading your drivel.”

I think this might mean she does what I do, with most of your posts and that is to scroll down through them. In any case, no matter if someone read each and every post of yours, unless they get into a cross-examination of what you really mean, (as I have just now) it’s unlikely they’d make any sense out of them.

Personally too, I find your post to ex-dakini so utterly insensitive and so lacking in empathy, even given you disbelieve anyone who says they have had a bad time with Sogyal sexually involving them…you may have just taken a second and thought about someone other than your self. You are an arse

"I Used to be a Tibetan Buddhist...."
New on Dialogue Ireland

[dialogueireland.wordpress.com]

This one comment goes to the heart of the matter.

---------------
Elizabeth Lewis, on January 7, 2012 at 11:48 am said:

Gosh! What a lot of energy is being expended here with claims and counter claims.
As an observer, I can’t help being relieved not to be part of all this.

I used to be a Tibetan Buddhist and regard His Holiness with deep reverence, but I left in the middle of a Tantric empowerment one day when I suddenly realised that I had been using the elaborate ritual, collecting of rupas, posters, implements (always need something else for the shrine..), attendance at expensive and (in my sudden opinion), empty gatherings as an actual diversion from the main event, which is to sit with oneself and know one’s own mind.

The deep need we westerners have is to belong to a ‘family’ , which BellaB mentions near the beginning of the blog when she describes Rigpa as a big family.

Forgotten in all this is that the historical Buddha left his biological family, then his spiritual family of ascetics, in order to become Enlightened.

Buddhism, like other religions such as Christianity,have long since become social clubs where all these allegations can be made and refuted.

While we are engaged in all this, our lives are ticking away, no closer to that elusive state we are supposedly seeking to develop.

May you all have peace and illumination


---------------

Consider that Enlightenment may not be a worthy or even real goal.

Seeking "family" is certainly a strong pull in a fragmented and lonely society. How about creating a "family of choice" from among your own friends and aquaintances and not a synthetic one made up of people who all must accept the same doctrines and/or leaders. Can't we have a close group of friends without a big parent?

The full documentary In the Name of Enlightenment is now up on YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

Interviewees include
Victoria Barlow
Guy
Mimi
Mary Finnigan
Stephen Batchelor
Martine Batchelor

"As one man, a former Buddhist told me, sometimes we forget that masters are men first and men want power, money and sex.

"I’m not the only person to react with surprise. When I describe to friends, family and colleagues the documentary I am working on and the direction it is going, the response more often than not is: “Oh, no. Not Buddhism. I thought it was the good one.”

"People, it seemed, have as much naivety about Buddhism as they do skepticism toward Catholicism. -Martine Batchelor



Superb article by Martine Batchelor on Debi Godwin's blog. One of the best descriptions of the realistic fears faced by those who dare to tell the truth.

One real risk is being tormented by troll attacks.

One person wrote on Dialog Ireland

Quote

I’m quite surprised that the two vindicators or SR are still active here. Some people just don’t know how and when to say “stop”. I’m starting to think that they’re on a payroll at Rigpa.

[dialogueireland.wordpress.com]

[webcache.googleusercontent.com]

Quote

It is not just fear that stops women. Many question their own part in the affairs or know others will. The victims are often vulnerable women who have lost parents or been sexually abused before. They are confused young disciples who sometimes find the only comfort they have known in years in a Buddhist centre or in a master, women who have grown up without figures they could trust in their lives. When relationships became sexual they feel unsure of what to do. Two women who wanted to confront the master who had used them sexually were told by a leading Buddhist thinker to “get over it.” One woman told me that if any other “guy” had jumped her, she would have known what to do. But when a Tibetan, supposed to be a reincarnation of a lama, did, she found herself questioning whether accepting this was part of her path to enlightenment. Another woman describes herself as being so worn out from all the work she had to do in service to the master she was unable to reflect on the sexual relationship once it started.

When I spoke to women on the telephone they seemed relieved that they were finally talking. For all of them, the events had happened years ago and they wanted to see them as something that was behind them. But doing an interview to be televised was another matter. One woman, who was eager to get her story out, took days to respond to my specific request to interview her on a certain day. She told me later that the reality of it hit her very hard and she really had to rethink if she wanted this out there. Another woman, once she finished her interview was filled with doubt and the realization that it was hard to open wounds she believed were healing.

The women I have encountered have lost so much and have fought so hard for their equilibrium. Trying to recover from pasts by following a spiritual path, they were betrayed by the very masters who pretended to offer them hope.

Debi Goodwin

Here is a letter written by a former Rigpa staff member, who describes how Rigpa staff are trained to respond to the Janice Doe lawsuit, and to accusations that their guru is abusive. She discusses frankly how she came to the realization that Sogyal's brand of Buddhism puts undue emphasis on devotion, which she comes to see as a form of brainwashing. When she finds a new Tibetan Buddhist lama to study under, the sharp contrast between his teachings and Sogyal's methods provokes insights into how wrong Sogyal's methods are.

[thedorjeshugdengroup.wordpress.com]


Here's another blog article by a Buddhist and psychotherapist who examines several testimonials regarding Sogyal's behavior, and Rigpa students' responses to abuse claims, adding his own analysis and commentary.

[thedorjeshugdengroup.wordpress.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2013 12:43PM by Misstyk.

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