Cult or not a cult?
Posted by:
Sanders
()
Date: June 04, 2008 08:54PM
The following article has been buzzing round several forums recently, what do you guys reckon? It appears like one quite obviously but I'm not sure:
"Hey everyone, I would like to get your input, feedback, and opinions about something NEW (and controversial).
There is a guy, Stephane, who teaches "Interdependent Circle" relationships, a dynamic that involves one man, and 2 or 3 'bisexual' women. They live together, are loyal to each other, and they seem to be really happy and in love. I'm very intruiged.
Stephane claims that an Interdependent Circle is the most advanced relationship dynamic possible in the human domain, because everyone involved must be willing to face their own ego programming and learn to let it go, and surrender it to God.
He also states that this is the most humbling relationship experience he's ever had, because living with 2-3 women creates a context in which every relationship/ego "issue" is triggered, and rises to the surface. He says that most of our ego programming is unconscious, and that he has found that Circle relationships tend to trigger a lot of our in-born ego issues.
For example, everyone in the "Circle" will be very prone to feeling jealousy and possessiveness, which is inherent to human ego programming. He says that especially for women, fear of abandonment is built-in biologically, therefore jealousy, etc. can be very difficult (but not impossible) to overcome.
He claims that jealousy, etc. can be transformed into unconditional love if the person is willing to spend time observing their mind in meditation, and ultimately, surrendering it to God.
He says that he doesn't experience jealousy, mostly because there are no men in the Circle, but that his main ego issue was that of Pride, and he had to work hard on becoming humble, and resist the urge to shove it in people's faces that he has several pretty girls. He also had to work on possessiveness issues, because when you have several girlfriends, you tend to REALLY want to keep them in your life. Apparently he worked very hard on surrendering the fear of losing the girls. He says, "The girls don't belong to me, and I do not belong to them. We each belong to God, and only He can ever possess them. One must be willing to surrender the relationship to God at each moment of each day, with every breath one takes. If someone decides it's time to leave a relationship.. you have to be humble about it and be willing to honor their choice to leave. And being needy is probably the biggest turn off for women, so I worked extremely hard on overcoming neediness. It was not easy, but it was worth it. Besides, if I had even one ounce of neediness, it would poison the whole Circle, the women would begin losing trust in me, and everything would fall apart!"
INTERESTING!
Interdependent Circles.. He says he learned about Interdependence primarily from Steven Covey, author of "The 7 Habits".
Interdependence means the following, according to Stephane:
"When one can transcend the lower emotions such as shame, anger, pride, jealousy, envy, fear of abandonment, etc. (i.e. the lower self, or ego) and makes the decision to open the heart, open to unconditional love and compassion, and begin to take full responsibility for one's emotions & behaviors, and replace the lower emotions with the firm decision to be 100% HUMBLE and accountable at all times, the typical issues of co-dependency and insecurity begin to (slowly, slowly) dissolve."
He says, "One then becomes Independent, and opens to God's love. When God's love touches one's heart on a deep level, one no longer feels separate from God, and one no longer feels dependent on others for love.
The first stage is Dependence on "others" for love, joy, happiness. The second stage is Independence, where one turns to God for fulfillment, rather than on other human beings.
Now, when a human being reaches this level, only then are they going to be able to have a happy, integrous, fulfilling relationship with another human being. Only then will they experience 100% drama-free union and join at the heart.
When two (or three or four!) INDEPENDENT human beings decide to join forces and start an intimate relationship, they then move to the next level, INTER-DEPENDENCE. And the wikipedia definition on Interdependence is pretty solid -
Interdependence is a dynamic of being mutually responsible to and sharing a common set of principles with others. This concept differs distinctly from "dependence" in that an interdependent relationship implies that all participants are emotionally, economically, and/or morally "interdependent." Some people advocate freedom or independence as a sort of ultimate good; others do the same with devotion to one's family, community, or society. Interdependence recognizes the truth in each position and weaves them together. Two people in a good relationship are said to be interdependent.It can also be defined as the interconnectedness and the reliance on one another socially, economically, environmentally and politically."
Stephane lives with two 'bisexual' women right now, [www.ideagasms.net]
he has been with his first girlfriend, Ghita, for almost four years, and they have been with a second girl, Greta, for almost one year, in a "Circle" as they call it.
According to Stephane, "The term 'Circle' is just my way of avoiding the word 'triangle', which seems to imply jealousy, and even deception, as well as the assumption that jealousy and insecurity are something we humans are stuck with no matter what we do. The girls and I are not perfect or fully enlightened, we still work on ourselves daily with meditation, intention, prayer, contemplation, and surrendering to God. We've come a long way over the years, and have an extremely close and intimate bond that you would probably have to see to believe."
When asked, "Why only women? Is it fair? Do you allow MEN to join your Circle?" he says that he will never allow men to be in his Circle, not because of jealousy, but simply because he isn't gay or bisexual.
He states, "Bisexual women (typically) do not want to be with gay men, which usually implies feminine men. Bisexual women seem to be very yin/yang balanced themselves, and so they will attract men that are also balanced.
Now, once we "balanced ones" join as a 'Circle', I take on a more masculine role (active, decisions, leadership, providing, etc. just like in the good 'ol days) and they then feel safe and protected enough to relax into their feminine side (dancing, playing, emotions, passivity, etc.).
This is called Sexual Polarity. Of course, we all are *equals* and I always take their feelings into account when I lead and make decisions and so on, but we seem have much more fun when I take on a 'Daddy' role, and they play a more feminine, 'mommy' role.
Simply put, we have learned from our own experiences that when a man acts like a man, and women act like women (as long is there is real honesty, trust, and respect!) this helps to keep the attraction and sexual tension alive. I have been with Ghita almost 4 years now, and we're still very sexually attracted to each other. And one year with Greta, and the attraction is also still very high. I suspect that I will be attracted to them for the rest of my life, as long as we maintain the polarity.
We don't take the "man/woman mommy and daddy" roles very seriously, we just *play* these roles and it's a lot of fun. We are spiritual equals, but we are not equals on a physical, biological level. We are complimentary opposites. We honor the bodies God gave us. I'm a man, so I'm not going to start asking the women to lead me and protect me. And they don't try to act like men, they want to feel like women."
When asked, "Why 2 or 3 girls, is not one woman ENOUGH to satisfy you?" he replies, "Why would I have two cats, or three children, or four cars? You see, one human or 100 humans cannot satisfy someone, they must learn to satisfy themselves. A woman's heart is so immense that the whole world couldn't fulfill it. True fulfillment comes from God, and only God. True Love is a blessing from Divinity, and must be respected as such. Again, people must become Independent before they can claim Interdependence. Your question comes from a dependent or "co-dependent" paradigm, you see.
Now, naturally when you ask a woman if she would like to bring you another woman or two, you're going to have problems! You will be sleeping on the couch tonight!
Not only does she first need to be VERY 'bisexual', but she will need to understand that a Circle... although the sex is awesome... there is much more to it than just your desire for the american dream of having a threesome.
Sex is just one aspect to human relationships. There is also an emotional/intellectual aspect (someone to listen to you, someone to lean on, someone to laugh and learn with, etc.) and there is also a spiritual aspect to relationships.
To me, I'm not just into relationships because I need to get laid and kill the loneliness. I have relationships because they teach me about myself in a most humbling and spiritual way. My current spiritual goals are to embody unconditional love and compassion, and to open to God. So there is a spiritual aspect to relationsips as well, assuming one has spiritual aspirations like we do.
If a woman is very 'bisexual', and wants to learn everything she can about the three aspects of relationships (physical, emotional/intellectual, and spiritual), only then should one suggest an Interdependent Circle.
To qualify as a man, you have to be able to help blossom open the heart of ONE girl before you attempt this with three! Your relationship has to be "almost perfect" before you bring in more women. I tell couples that their relationship has to be soooo good that they feel almost selfish for not sharing what they have with other women. How many couples can say THAT with a straight face?
Now, in the context of Interdependent Circles, you better believe that all parties involved are going to learn learn learn. It is like an accellerated learning program. I have learned more in this context about women, about myself, about ego, emotions, spirituality, and so on than I would have in a regular two-person couple relationship."
He also states that Circles are the highest level of relationship possible in the known world.
"Look - I'm not saying that Circles are better, or more valued in the eyes of God than say, getting married is. Married couples serve God just as much as we do. A plumber serves God just as much as the Saint does.
What I am saying is that Circles are higher-consciousness than regular relationships. Why? Simply because this type of relationship is exponentially more challenging and difficult to manage, because it triggers more of the ego than normal relationships do. It took me over fifteen years to figure out how Circles can be built and maintained, and I'm still learning new things, daily.
By analogy, parenting one child is difficult and challenging, but parenting two or three kids will present many more challenges, exponentially. This doesn't mean that having more kids is "better", it's just different.
Since this is more challenging, this means that there is more to learn, and therefore higher-consciousness. Simple mathematics! And again, the number 50 is not "better" than the number 25."
-Stephane,
[www.ideagasms.net]
So, what do you guys think? Please post your comments, opinions, and questions. He asked me and a few others to do this. He says, "I want opinions from Christians, Muslims, Jews... Feminists, the gay community, even the seduction community, hypnosis groups, self-help junkies, and spiritual leaders like Deepak and Dyer... I want to know what Dr. Phil and Oprah think. I want to get people's first, gut-level reactions to the idea of Circles. Perhaps they will have a (negative or positive or neutral) opinion or two that I can learn from. I only recently went public with this and started to share, and I'm extremely curious to see how others will react."
"Hey everyone, I would like to get your input, feedback, and opinions about something NEW (and controversial).
There is a guy, Stephane, who teaches "Interdependent Circle" relationships, a dynamic that involves one man, and 2 or 3 'bisexual' women. They live together, are loyal to each other, and they seem to be really happy and in love. I'm very intruiged.
Stephane claims that an Interdependent Circle is the most advanced relationship dynamic possible in the human domain, because everyone involved must be willing to face their own ego programming and learn to let it go, and surrender it to God.
He also states that this is the most humbling relationship experience he's ever had, because living with 2-3 women creates a context in which every relationship/ego "issue" is triggered, and rises to the surface. He says that most of our ego programming is unconscious, and that he has found that Circle relationships tend to trigger a lot of our in-born ego issues.
For example, everyone in the "Circle" will be very prone to feeling jealousy and possessiveness, which is inherent to human ego programming. He says that especially for women, fear of abandonment is built-in biologically, therefore jealousy, etc. can be very difficult (but not impossible) to overcome.
He claims that jealousy, etc. can be transformed into unconditional love if the person is willing to spend time observing their mind in meditation, and ultimately, surrendering it to God.
He says that he doesn't experience jealousy, mostly because there are no men in the Circle, but that his main ego issue was that of Pride, and he had to work hard on becoming humble, and resist the urge to shove it in people's faces that he has several pretty girls. He also had to work on possessiveness issues, because when you have several girlfriends, you tend to REALLY want to keep them in your life. Apparently he worked very hard on surrendering the fear of losing the girls. He says, "The girls don't belong to me, and I do not belong to them. We each belong to God, and only He can ever possess them. One must be willing to surrender the relationship to God at each moment of each day, with every breath one takes. If someone decides it's time to leave a relationship.. you have to be humble about it and be willing to honor their choice to leave. And being needy is probably the biggest turn off for women, so I worked extremely hard on overcoming neediness. It was not easy, but it was worth it. Besides, if I had even one ounce of neediness, it would poison the whole Circle, the women would begin losing trust in me, and everything would fall apart!"
INTERESTING!
Interdependent Circles.. He says he learned about Interdependence primarily from Steven Covey, author of "The 7 Habits".
Interdependence means the following, according to Stephane:
"When one can transcend the lower emotions such as shame, anger, pride, jealousy, envy, fear of abandonment, etc. (i.e. the lower self, or ego) and makes the decision to open the heart, open to unconditional love and compassion, and begin to take full responsibility for one's emotions & behaviors, and replace the lower emotions with the firm decision to be 100% HUMBLE and accountable at all times, the typical issues of co-dependency and insecurity begin to (slowly, slowly) dissolve."
He says, "One then becomes Independent, and opens to God's love. When God's love touches one's heart on a deep level, one no longer feels separate from God, and one no longer feels dependent on others for love.
The first stage is Dependence on "others" for love, joy, happiness. The second stage is Independence, where one turns to God for fulfillment, rather than on other human beings.
Now, when a human being reaches this level, only then are they going to be able to have a happy, integrous, fulfilling relationship with another human being. Only then will they experience 100% drama-free union and join at the heart.
When two (or three or four!) INDEPENDENT human beings decide to join forces and start an intimate relationship, they then move to the next level, INTER-DEPENDENCE. And the wikipedia definition on Interdependence is pretty solid -
Interdependence is a dynamic of being mutually responsible to and sharing a common set of principles with others. This concept differs distinctly from "dependence" in that an interdependent relationship implies that all participants are emotionally, economically, and/or morally "interdependent." Some people advocate freedom or independence as a sort of ultimate good; others do the same with devotion to one's family, community, or society. Interdependence recognizes the truth in each position and weaves them together. Two people in a good relationship are said to be interdependent.It can also be defined as the interconnectedness and the reliance on one another socially, economically, environmentally and politically."
Stephane lives with two 'bisexual' women right now, [www.ideagasms.net]
he has been with his first girlfriend, Ghita, for almost four years, and they have been with a second girl, Greta, for almost one year, in a "Circle" as they call it.
According to Stephane, "The term 'Circle' is just my way of avoiding the word 'triangle', which seems to imply jealousy, and even deception, as well as the assumption that jealousy and insecurity are something we humans are stuck with no matter what we do. The girls and I are not perfect or fully enlightened, we still work on ourselves daily with meditation, intention, prayer, contemplation, and surrendering to God. We've come a long way over the years, and have an extremely close and intimate bond that you would probably have to see to believe."
When asked, "Why only women? Is it fair? Do you allow MEN to join your Circle?" he says that he will never allow men to be in his Circle, not because of jealousy, but simply because he isn't gay or bisexual.
He states, "Bisexual women (typically) do not want to be with gay men, which usually implies feminine men. Bisexual women seem to be very yin/yang balanced themselves, and so they will attract men that are also balanced.
Now, once we "balanced ones" join as a 'Circle', I take on a more masculine role (active, decisions, leadership, providing, etc. just like in the good 'ol days) and they then feel safe and protected enough to relax into their feminine side (dancing, playing, emotions, passivity, etc.).
This is called Sexual Polarity. Of course, we all are *equals* and I always take their feelings into account when I lead and make decisions and so on, but we seem have much more fun when I take on a 'Daddy' role, and they play a more feminine, 'mommy' role.
Simply put, we have learned from our own experiences that when a man acts like a man, and women act like women (as long is there is real honesty, trust, and respect!) this helps to keep the attraction and sexual tension alive. I have been with Ghita almost 4 years now, and we're still very sexually attracted to each other. And one year with Greta, and the attraction is also still very high. I suspect that I will be attracted to them for the rest of my life, as long as we maintain the polarity.
We don't take the "man/woman mommy and daddy" roles very seriously, we just *play* these roles and it's a lot of fun. We are spiritual equals, but we are not equals on a physical, biological level. We are complimentary opposites. We honor the bodies God gave us. I'm a man, so I'm not going to start asking the women to lead me and protect me. And they don't try to act like men, they want to feel like women."
When asked, "Why 2 or 3 girls, is not one woman ENOUGH to satisfy you?" he replies, "Why would I have two cats, or three children, or four cars? You see, one human or 100 humans cannot satisfy someone, they must learn to satisfy themselves. A woman's heart is so immense that the whole world couldn't fulfill it. True fulfillment comes from God, and only God. True Love is a blessing from Divinity, and must be respected as such. Again, people must become Independent before they can claim Interdependence. Your question comes from a dependent or "co-dependent" paradigm, you see.
Now, naturally when you ask a woman if she would like to bring you another woman or two, you're going to have problems! You will be sleeping on the couch tonight!
Not only does she first need to be VERY 'bisexual', but she will need to understand that a Circle... although the sex is awesome... there is much more to it than just your desire for the american dream of having a threesome.
Sex is just one aspect to human relationships. There is also an emotional/intellectual aspect (someone to listen to you, someone to lean on, someone to laugh and learn with, etc.) and there is also a spiritual aspect to relationships.
To me, I'm not just into relationships because I need to get laid and kill the loneliness. I have relationships because they teach me about myself in a most humbling and spiritual way. My current spiritual goals are to embody unconditional love and compassion, and to open to God. So there is a spiritual aspect to relationsips as well, assuming one has spiritual aspirations like we do.
If a woman is very 'bisexual', and wants to learn everything she can about the three aspects of relationships (physical, emotional/intellectual, and spiritual), only then should one suggest an Interdependent Circle.
To qualify as a man, you have to be able to help blossom open the heart of ONE girl before you attempt this with three! Your relationship has to be "almost perfect" before you bring in more women. I tell couples that their relationship has to be soooo good that they feel almost selfish for not sharing what they have with other women. How many couples can say THAT with a straight face?
Now, in the context of Interdependent Circles, you better believe that all parties involved are going to learn learn learn. It is like an accellerated learning program. I have learned more in this context about women, about myself, about ego, emotions, spirituality, and so on than I would have in a regular two-person couple relationship."
He also states that Circles are the highest level of relationship possible in the known world.
"Look - I'm not saying that Circles are better, or more valued in the eyes of God than say, getting married is. Married couples serve God just as much as we do. A plumber serves God just as much as the Saint does.
What I am saying is that Circles are higher-consciousness than regular relationships. Why? Simply because this type of relationship is exponentially more challenging and difficult to manage, because it triggers more of the ego than normal relationships do. It took me over fifteen years to figure out how Circles can be built and maintained, and I'm still learning new things, daily.
By analogy, parenting one child is difficult and challenging, but parenting two or three kids will present many more challenges, exponentially. This doesn't mean that having more kids is "better", it's just different.
Since this is more challenging, this means that there is more to learn, and therefore higher-consciousness. Simple mathematics! And again, the number 50 is not "better" than the number 25."
-Stephane,
[www.ideagasms.net]
So, what do you guys think? Please post your comments, opinions, and questions. He asked me and a few others to do this. He says, "I want opinions from Christians, Muslims, Jews... Feminists, the gay community, even the seduction community, hypnosis groups, self-help junkies, and spiritual leaders like Deepak and Dyer... I want to know what Dr. Phil and Oprah think. I want to get people's first, gut-level reactions to the idea of Circles. Perhaps they will have a (negative or positive or neutral) opinion or two that I can learn from. I only recently went public with this and started to share, and I'm extremely curious to see how others will react."
Re: Cult or not a cult?
Posted by:
solea13
()
Date: June 04, 2008 10:54PM
Okay, I read the whole thing but I really didn't need to read past this sentence almost at the very beginning:
"There is a guy, Stephane, who teaches "Interdependent Circle" relationships, a dynamic that involves one man, and 2 or 3 'bisexual' women. They live together, are loyal to each other, and they seem to be really happy and in love. I'm very intruiged."
I could feel my eyes starting to roll right then. It doesn't take a genuis to figure this one out.
A charismatic man claiming that this outwardly enviable position is really tough and that it has made him 'spritual' and 'humble', thus enabling him to teach others how to face their own "ego programming and learn to let it go, and surrender it to God."
I'm sure it sounds like a sweet deal for ole Steph. It sounds like a cult in the making to me:
"Now, once we "balanced ones" join as a 'Circle', I take on a more masculine role (active, decisions, leadership, providing, etc. just like in the good 'ol days) and they then feel safe and protected enough to relax into their feminine side (dancing, playing, emotions, passivity, etc.). "
Apparently the 'feminine side' is about regressing to a state of child-like dependency ... just like a spiritual devotee, who'da thunk it?
This is a free country. People have all the freedom to live in the manner they choose, and form the relationships of their choice. I cannot judge that or claim that monogamy is the only way.
However, as soon as you have one person claiming to know what is 'ego-based' or 'non ego-based', what is 'spiritual' or 'non-spiritual' in a relationship you have a situation that is ripe for mind control, thought-reform and abuse.
Look at these inconsistencies:
"I'm not saying that Circles are better"
"What I am saying is that Circles are higher-consciousness than regular relationships"
(The last statement is also a value-judgement.)
Can this guy really be serious? Is he about eighteen years of age? Does the world re-invent itself every ten years? Because plenty of us liberal, and one upon a time new-agey types over thirty years old have probably toyed with the idea of alternative lifestyles, maybe even flirted with the thought of being bi-sexual. It used to be quite the thing to titillate a guy with the idea that you were 'open' to that.
Having said that, being in a monogamous relationship, it might not hurt to have another woman around to help clean up the mess made by darling hubby. Hahaha. Just kidding.
Stephane baby, we been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. Give it up. People's reactions to this are going to range from a stifled yawn to a burst of disbelieving laughter. It's just another means for some guy to have his cake and eat it too.
Good luck to all y'all though. Stay humble, Stephie. For 'Ghita and Greta', there's a forum for abusive and controlling relationships at this Website in case you find yourself less than thrilled about this deeply spiritual arrangement in a year or two.
"There is a guy, Stephane, who teaches "Interdependent Circle" relationships, a dynamic that involves one man, and 2 or 3 'bisexual' women. They live together, are loyal to each other, and they seem to be really happy and in love. I'm very intruiged."
I could feel my eyes starting to roll right then. It doesn't take a genuis to figure this one out.
A charismatic man claiming that this outwardly enviable position is really tough and that it has made him 'spritual' and 'humble', thus enabling him to teach others how to face their own "ego programming and learn to let it go, and surrender it to God."
I'm sure it sounds like a sweet deal for ole Steph. It sounds like a cult in the making to me:
"Now, once we "balanced ones" join as a 'Circle', I take on a more masculine role (active, decisions, leadership, providing, etc. just like in the good 'ol days) and they then feel safe and protected enough to relax into their feminine side (dancing, playing, emotions, passivity, etc.). "
Apparently the 'feminine side' is about regressing to a state of child-like dependency ... just like a spiritual devotee, who'da thunk it?
This is a free country. People have all the freedom to live in the manner they choose, and form the relationships of their choice. I cannot judge that or claim that monogamy is the only way.
However, as soon as you have one person claiming to know what is 'ego-based' or 'non ego-based', what is 'spiritual' or 'non-spiritual' in a relationship you have a situation that is ripe for mind control, thought-reform and abuse.
Look at these inconsistencies:
"I'm not saying that Circles are better"
"What I am saying is that Circles are higher-consciousness than regular relationships"
(The last statement is also a value-judgement.)
Can this guy really be serious? Is he about eighteen years of age? Does the world re-invent itself every ten years? Because plenty of us liberal, and one upon a time new-agey types over thirty years old have probably toyed with the idea of alternative lifestyles, maybe even flirted with the thought of being bi-sexual. It used to be quite the thing to titillate a guy with the idea that you were 'open' to that.
Having said that, being in a monogamous relationship, it might not hurt to have another woman around to help clean up the mess made by darling hubby. Hahaha. Just kidding.
Stephane baby, we been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. Give it up. People's reactions to this are going to range from a stifled yawn to a burst of disbelieving laughter. It's just another means for some guy to have his cake and eat it too.
Good luck to all y'all though. Stay humble, Stephie. For 'Ghita and Greta', there's a forum for abusive and controlling relationships at this Website in case you find yourself less than thrilled about this deeply spiritual arrangement in a year or two.
Re: Cult or not a cult?
Posted by:
Sallie
()
Date: June 05, 2008 09:23PM
He's ''getting them past'' the ''inborn emotion of jealousy''????
Why?
Emotions exixt for a reason. Fear works. I fear oncoming trains....good thing.
So the women in the grasps of this polygimist psycho ''used to'' fear certain things innately that would prevent them from this type of ''love'' but now they're ''getting over it''....
Since cult leaders are manipulative perverts I would feel comfortable saying...he's a cult leader.
Why?
Emotions exixt for a reason. Fear works. I fear oncoming trains....good thing.
So the women in the grasps of this polygimist psycho ''used to'' fear certain things innately that would prevent them from this type of ''love'' but now they're ''getting over it''....
Since cult leaders are manipulative perverts I would feel comfortable saying...he's a cult leader.
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