Hi Ocean_Of_Lies,

I have sent you a couple of useful links for the Hungarian lady who was with ching hai in India.

The initiation process including postures are all in the scans i sent you via email & also available Here

Not sure if the moderators will allow "5 names" on here but this link may assist you.
This is a Chinese site but with very good English descriptions.

I haven't seen the Thakar Singh's group spiritual diary since it disapeared from their site but i'll inform you when it appears again.
Further reading on that diary.

Thanks for your comments & patience.

kind Regards,

Koldin.

Hi Ocean_Of_Lies,

Somehow the Thakar Singh spiritual diary still lurks about on the internets even on that same site as follows: [www.santmat.net]

If the link goes away please try this link at FileSwap

Also Kirpal Singh the direct master of Thakar also had this diary for his followers.

Comparing the above two diaries one can easily see where ching hai got her ideas for a diary for her followers.

Going through ching hai's spiritual diary one can clearly see this is one of the major brainwashing tools of this cult.

Finally as the postures in the scans are just artists' impressions of the postures & therefore may not be clear enough here is a photo of how ching hai followers position themselves during part of their meditation.

Now of course ching hai out of her "care, loving kindness & compassion(according to her deluded followers)" has designed a special chair to sell to her multitude of followers worldwide to "help" them have a more comfortable meditation sitting.

And with the ching hai disciples believing anything from their master has divine powers & blessings its easy to see that the "compassion for sentient beings" nonsense she preaches nicely translates into hard cash for the ever richer Madame cha ching hai.
This cult, the whole organisation with the authoritarian ching hai at the top is just a front for money making, power & fame.

Hopefully this bit of info is useful to you as you try to help your dear friend.

Kind Regards,
K

Thank you again, Koldin, for these interesting documents.

I came back to the Suprememystery's Blog in order to check if they published my comment... not yet. No possible technical problem this time, because some later comment are displayed.

There are now many answers to the question : VegNews Supreme Mystery article – what do you think?

Good question.

But they seem not to be so interested about what others really think, it's just an other propaganda website, only by followers and for followers.

---

Here is the comment I posted on February 8 (for whom it may interest) :

Quote

@ Yoga Gurl & co.

When talking about Supreme Master Ching Hai, there is not religious/spiritual people on one side and atheists people on the other side. If you are aware about what is said arround you (news, forums, websites of associations, research thesis, etc.) and not only what your teachers say, you would notice that Ching Hai's detractors are any kind of people, with different beliefs, and from many different places. Even from some people who formerly followed Ching Hai, and who are still using the light and sound meditation method. So, from any kind of people... except Ching Hai's followers themselves.

You should not mistake intolerance toward Ching Hai for intolerance toward religious and spiritual people. Doing so is called a "false dilemma", or a "black and white thinking". It's a technique of sophist reasoning. You can check on Google for more information.

Look what happen if I summarize your idea : "Ching Hai is spiritual, so people who attack Ching Hai are obviously not spiritual". LOL isn't it?

Here, an other way : "Ching Hai is spiritual, so people who attack Ching Hai they don't respect spiritual people." LOL again :)

And almost everybody here is doing that kind of twisted reasoning. The most common exemple in your posts is : "Ching Hai strive to save our planet, so people who criticize Ching Hai are obviously...
- people who think it's good to exploit the planet"
- people playing against those who strive to save the planet"
- people who shamelessly sabotage Ching Hai's efforts to save the planet"
- evil!"

... same same and not different.

You are missing the point, and/or you are trying to sow confusion in people's mind.

Ching Hai is NOT criticized for her efforts on environment protection. Environment protection is good, we all know that. It's more the way she uses this fashionable subject to increase her popularity, and to legitimize many kind of abuses.

Ching Hai is NOT criticized for promoting meditation, which can be good for people's body and mind (most of people admit that). It's more the way she focuses everything on herself, pretending to be an essential intermediary for a so-called acces to God. So when meditation could be a technique for people to listen to themselves, to feel and control energies inside the body, to free themselves from unreasonable emotions, to be stronger, more independent and more open-minded, with Ching Hai meditation becomes a technique for her to make followers rely on her, need her, and give her an unconditional love. So is that "illumination" (enlightenment) any kind of freedom? Of course, followers are strongly convinced to be free. You will notice that it is an active thinking : they can answer even before you ask, because they are repeated all the time that they are free, that what they do is just their own choice. There are well known simple and efficient mind control trick which can produce such impression of freedom when actually you are told to do something. These tricks are used everydays, not only by cults, mostly by advertisers. Research by yourself, Google is your friend, so are the libraries.

Ching Hai's followers are dependent on the master, which is the exact opposite of what they would experience with a truely selfless master. And they are dependent for life (because Ching Hai pretend they need her until the 5th spiritual level of consciousness, which of course they will never reach in a lifetime, how convenient!). There are other masters, who guide their followers without claiming their love. At least, that unconditional love for Ching Hai efficiently prevents followers from being critical about her. Just read all coments on this page : each cons are systematically turned into pros. Actually there are a few moderate post but not any critical post here, isn't it weird? James Kurtz from San Jose even ask "Whatever happened to free speech?" (posted on January 2, 2011). At least VegNews is fair enough to publish opinions from both sides.

So... what is REALLY criticized about Ching Hai is that she is (obviously) not what she pretends to be, that she is too much interested in increasing her power (and her bank account), that she uses a serious and universal question (ecology) to reach that special goal in an apparently justifiable way, and last but not least, that she reduces her followers to various degrees of psychological slavery. In a word, she is harmful.

That's what the VegNews article means (not "says", in fact it just point to some shady parts of the cult). VegNews didn't say that the concept of a vegan restaurant chain is bad (at least not worse than other chains : with some shortcomings that the concept of restaurant chain implies), neither that Loving Hut chain cook shit, nor that being vegan is useless for environment. VegNews criticize Ching Hai and (undirectly) her followers, but not the vegans. Be aware of that : vegan is not Ching Hai, Ching Hai is not the whole vegan community.

You may have noticed the illustration at the begining of the article of Neil Young. It's an allusion to a painting of Andy Warhol. It should make sense for the reader...

I hope I made it clear, for at least some of you, that VegNews is not against vegan people, but against Ching Hai cult of personality. That makes a BIG difference.

Why should VegNews appologize? Of course that article is not a perfect model of investigation, but VegNews is not an investigation magazine. Yes, the article may need more references and should not spend so much space for these interviews of the few probably most lemming-like followers, but the background is rich enough to allow some shortcuts. Those who want more details just need to make a quick research. They will find suprememastertv and understand what this is all about. Ching Hai's followers are funny in a way. They all argue that it's shameful to accuse Ching Hai without evidences (even if there are many), which suppose they understand the concept of reliability of sources, but they are totally incapable of noticing anything wrong when Ching Hai tells them that she had a 400 years old master, hidden far far away in the Himalaya so that you can never verify whether it is true or not, and that she is her first and last disciple so that you can never ask to anyone about the teaching she received, or even if she was a good disciple or not. I don't even talk about suprememastertv's content...

Disclaimer : I don't care about VegNews, I just observe Ching Hai, for personal reasons. That's the first article of VegNews I read in my life. I tried Loving Hut (one in Paris, one in Hanoi) and I liked the food, not the smtv programs you can't switch off. Even if I'm still a (moderate) "meat-eater", I fully support the vegetarian cause. I will stop eat meat soon or late for sure, and I truely admire those who have the courage to put their beliefs into practice... I may do it before the end of my life, like did Enstein, whom vegan community often takes as an exemple to follow :) ha ha

keywords : Supreme Master Ching Hai, SMCHIA, Supreme Mystery Veg News article, Neil Young, VegNews, Melinda, James, amy lynn, Yoga Gurl, CY, James Kurtz, Tino DPC, Bonnie Goodman, Eve Gotch, Dr. Will Tuttle, Bob G, sean, Papaji, Beth Redwood, Calvin, Mr. Scott Reeve, Chi-En Chiang, Anne Walker, Dr. Flora Mason Van Orden, Duc Vu, Lily and Jim Macy, Bonnie Goodman, Johnny Scott, Shanna Cheng, Neniu Logomo, sunny mueller, Lidia Belknap, Terri Zacanti, Patrick Finnegan, John Mooter, Nina Schatz, Carla Y. , connie Tang, Trina N., John Mooter, Caroline Bied, Catherine Kayser, CY Beh, Pat Ritz, Warwak, Susana Fung, Victoria White, tamisin, Judy Carman, Paul Morgan, Lila Brooks, Jakub Olewski, Tuan Nguyen, Luv2Veg, Dr. Nguyen Pham, Srilata Thirunagari, lisettetemplin, Sherri, Susan Gilchrist, katie55, Jargal Yadam, A. Chang, TomTom, Vegans Are Cool, Julia F., fukyo giacomozzi, Allan, Jason L., David Smugar, Miyoko Schinner, Valentina Gillmore, Pamela Millar, Sheila Coodin, Sophie Lapaire, SMTV, SupremeMasterTV, SupremeMasterTelevision, DirectContactToGod, RememberGod, Loving Hut, vegan,

Below is a personal experience sharing by an initiate echoed mine, it was originally posted on a Taiwanese web page titled “ Chinghai is a fraud’ in Chinese in 2007. [blog.lester850.info]
This experience would tell enough of that creating fear is not a strange thing associated with Chinghai, especially in 1996. And what stupid absolute obedience like when received Her teachings also money donation, purchasing Her products etc..

(Apologize for mistakes of grammar and spellings in advance).



I used to be a faithful disciple of Supreme Master Chinghai, initiated in 1989, after 7 years of meditation without any spiritual experience, I still didn’t want to leave her, still continued to join group meditation. Until in 1996, an event happened when China had missiles drill aiming Taiwan to interfere President election, then I started to doubt whether Master was a True Master.

I was contacted by Center to flee for Cambodia and carry as much as money as possible to attend retreat in Cambodia. It was clear that we were instructed to flee for impending war and to take refuge in Cambodia. Many disciples had quit jobs including prestigious civil servants jobs and also sold their houses to follow Master to go to Cambodia. But only a few days later, all of them had returned, President Lee was still elected and Taiwan wasn’t attacked by China. Then there’s another explanation from Center that the reason to bring much money was to help poor Cambodians. It’s hard to swallow as the panic was caused among disciples and family members. At that time, non-initiated members weren’t allowed to join retreat. We had all passports ready, I knelt before my mother and persuaded my sisters to go with me to flee for Cambodia.( I couldn’t leave my mother to flee for life myself). Knowing the fact all initiates returned safely and Center treated the event as a trifle was hard for me to accept.

I would say how much I trusted Master that if it hadn’t been for my mother and my husband, I would have donated all of my money and properties to His-Hu’s bank account (headquarter) secretly, because I trusted Master so much, I never doubted her, not to mention I spent 7000NT on Poisonous Gas proof Masks from initiates( many disciples had bought the equipments believing the war would happen) and stored mass dry foods, cans of food at my basement. I know I only had small amount of money loss compared with some other initiates and suffered from panic also mocked by my family as war didn’t happen. I feel sorry for those lost jobs and properties because of this event and not happy for the explanation provided by organization that going to Cambodia was simply another international retreat. Not least for the Project of community center built in Cambodia under Master’s instructions afterwards turned out to be deceived by Scam within Cambodia resulting further loss.

This event prompted me thinking about all her claims. For example, I used to envy initiates talking about their spiritual experience at Hsi-Hu, but some of them suddenly stopped coming without any explanations. And an initiate claimed to have good spiritual experience and had inside communication with Master, suddenly died on the day of appointment with me to view houses. Didn’t Master say that she would inform our death few days earlier? If I wouldn’t receive such message due to my poor spiritual practice, how about that higher spiritual initiate died without notice?

I was filled with joy only at the early days after initiation, but later on, I started feeling frustrated with only darkness seen in my meditation, so frustrated that I wrote a letter to His-Hu and only got an indifferent reply. Even so, I still decided to practice willingly, followed her and never doubted her. Yet this kind of distress is beyond word, meditation became another torture for me, I could only kept blaming myself of heavy Kama , and never complained to Master. I gave up my hobbies of reading, music and art. I also dared not to read other peoples’ books, because Master said that when we are reading, we are communicating with authors spiritually resulting degrading our level, it’s best only reading Her books. For my strong ten years, I only read Her books, not learning other things, where can I get compensation for such loss?. I dared not say She is Evil, I only described my own following experience.

Even though I was a housewife without affluent family income, but whenever it came to donations, I always tried my best. I bought hundreds of Her audio tapes, videos, photos, donated to various disasters relief and Her lecture tour funding. Gradually it mounted up hundreds of thousands of NT dollar. I was once coerced by working team of center to buy Master’s personal belonging (a small vase) at 100,000 NT to fund Master’s lecture tour. The price was beyond my financial ability, I accepted reluctantly, but I couldn’t tell anybody. I remember that day at center I was crying silently during meditation. I wasn’t allowed to join group meditation until I had to pay off 100,000 NT. I went to post office several times to pay off. And I couldn’t believe that Hsi-Hu requested my receipts of payment from post office sent to them to confirm the payment. Due to loss of some receipts, it took another trouble for me to get Post office to confirm. Why? We were instructed to follow No Lying precept, and followed it dearly, yet organisation still didn’t trust us unless they see the receipts. I felt my sincerity and integrity not trusted which was another blow to me. Even a few years later, I still feel hurting.

As the aspect of jewelries sale, I confronted with working team that wasn’t that we were blessed while wearing pendant with Master’s picture. However, I was repeatedly told that Master’s jewelries possessed greater blessings. I don’t like the idea of the jewelries sale. Didn’t Master keep telling us that we should appreciate the treasure inside rather than worldly things, in fact they are just worthless stones? We already have blessing since initiation, why do we need jewelries to get extra blessing? Master said before that ‘make-up’ is a way of deceiving. But why she started wearing make-up later and said it’s a way of showing courtesy? Her make-up outlook made me feel she had changed to a stranger, I didn’t feel affection, Her eyes felt like a stranger.

Why I came to this web page, because I still feel hurt and have no place or person to talk about it. I still like five precepts and being vegetarian just I have lost the passion of spiritual practice and I can’t trust other methods either. I know whatever happened Organization would always give explanations. For example, if His-Hu was struck by earthquake, you would explain it’s because of initiates’ Kama. Whereas it was safe you would say it’s due to Master’s blessings. It’s all your sayings….

Below is a personal experience sharing by an initiate echoed mine, it was originally posted on a Taiwanese web page titled “ Chinghai is a fraud’ in Chinese in 2007. [blog.lester850.info]
This experience would tell enough of that creating fear is not a strange thing associated with Chinghai, especially in 1996.

(Apologize for mistakes of grammar and spellings in advance).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I used to be faithful disciple of Supreme Master Chinghai, initiated in 1989, after 7 years of meditation without any spiritual experience, I still didn’t want to leave her, still continued to join group meditation. Until in 1996, an event happened when China had missiles drill aiming Taiwan to interfere President election, then I started to doubt whether Master was a True Master.

I was contacted by Center to flee for Cambodia and carry as much as money as possible to attend retreat in Cambodia. It was clear that we were instructed to flee for impending war and to take refuge in Cambodia. Many disciples had quit jobs including prestigious civil servants jobs and also sold their houses to follow Master to go to Cambodia. But only a few days later, all of them had returned, President Lee was still elected and Taiwan wasn’t attacked by China. Then there’s another explanation from Center that the reason to bring much money was to help poor Cambodians. It’s hard to swallow as the panic was caused among disciples and family members. At that time, non-initiated members weren’t allowed to join retreat. We had all passports ready, I knelt before my mother and persuaded my sisters to go with me to flee for Cambodia.( I couldn’t leave my mother to flee for life myself). Knowing the fact all initiates returned safely and Center treated the event as a trifle was hard for me to accept.

I would say how much I trusted Master that if it hadn’t been for my mother and my husband, I would have donated all of my money and properties to
His-Hu’s bank account (headquarter) secretly, because I trusted Master so much, I never doubted her, not to mention I spent 7000NT on Poisonous Gas proof Masks from initiates( many disciples had bought the equipments believing the war would happen) and stored mass dry foods, cans of food at my basement. I know I only had small amount of money loss compared with some other initiates and suffered from panic also mocked by my family as war didn’t happen. I feel sorry for those lost jobs and properties because of this event and not happy for the explanation provided by organization that going to Cambodia was simply another international retreat. Not least for the Project of community center built in Cambodia under Master’s instructions afterwards turned out to be deceived by Scam within Cambodia resulting further loss.

This event prompted me thinking about all her claims. For example, I used to envy initiates talking about their spiritual experience at Hsi-Hu, but some of them suddenly stopped coming without any explanations. And an initiate claimed to have good spiritual experience and had inside communication with Master, suddenly died on the day of appointment with me to view houses. Didn’t Master say that she would inform our death few days earlier? If I wouldn’t receive such message due to my poor spiritual practice, how about that higher spiritual initiate died without notice?

I was filled with joy only at the early days after initiation, but later on, I started feeling frustrated with only darkness seen in my meditation, so frustrated that I wrote a letter to His-Hu but only got an indifferent reply. Even so, I still decided to practice willingly, followed her and never doubted her. Yet this kind of distress is beyond word, meditation became another torture for me, I could only kept blaming myself of heavy Kama , and never complained to Master. I gave up my hobbies of reading, music and art. I also dared not to read other peoples’ books, because Master says that when we are reading, we are communicating with authors spiritually resulting degrading our level, it’s best only reading Her books. For my strong ten years, I only read Her books, not learning other things, where can I get compensation for such loss?. I dared not say She is Evil, I only described my own following experience.

Even though I was a housewife without affluent family income, but whenever it came to donations, I always tried my best. I bought hundreds of Her audio tapes, videos, photos, donated to various disasters relief and Her lecture tour funding. Gradually it mounted up hundreds of thousands of NT dollar. I was once coerced by working team of center to buy Master’s personal belonging (a small vase) at 100,000 NT to fund Master’s lecture tour. The price was beyond my financial ability, I accepted reluctantly, but I couldn’t tell anybody. I remember that day at center I was crying silently during meditation. I wasn’t allowed to join group meditation until I had to pay off 100,000 NT. I went to post office several times to pay off. And I couldn’t believe that His-Hu requested my receipts of payment from post office sent to them to confirm the payment. Due to loss of some receipts, it took another trouble for me to get Post office to confirm. Why? We were instructed to follow No Lying precept, and followed it dearly, yet organization still didn’t trust us unless they see the receipts. Master said that inner Master would know our offerings, was it?I felt my sincerity and integrity not trusted which was another blow to me. Even a few years later, I still feel hurting.

As the aspect of jewelries sale, I confronted with working team that wasn’t that we were blessed while wearing pendant with Master’s picture. However, I was repeatedly told that Master’s jewelries possessed greater blessings. I don’t like the idea of the jewelries sale. Didn’t Master keep telling us that we should appreciate the treasure inside rather than worldly things, in fact they are just worthless stones? We already have blessing since initiation, why do we need jewelries to get extra blessing?

Master said before that ‘make-up’ is a way of deceiving. But why she started wearing make-up later and said it’s a way of showing courtesy? Her make-up outlook made me feel she had change to a stranger, I didn’t feel affection, Her eyes felt like a stranger.
Why I came to this web page, because I still feel hurt and have no place or person to talk about it. I still like five precepts and being vegetarian just I have lost the passion of spiritual practice and I can’t trust other methods either. I know whatever happened Organization would always give explanations. For example, if His-Hu was struck by earthquake, you would explain it’s because of initiates’ Kama. Whereas it was safe you would say it’s due to Master’s blessings. It’s all your sayings….


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

LOL, I find it interesting about that last passage. I remeber being in Taiwan center around that time frame (mid ninetys) when the center was frantically building an underground reinforced shelter of some sort. Last time I was there 2-3 years ago, it still sat unused.

Kind of reminds me that a year or two ago ther was this "initiate only" video at the center that we were all called in to watch talking about building cave bunkers and escaping the gas and crap of global warming. The following week, another "urgent" video came out where she said she was joking about it. a month later, back to the whole build a cave bunker thing. LOL pretty directionless.

Personally, I have been an active follower of the group since I was a little one. I have recently left about a year or so ago and cut my ties. The incredible fervor going about with that scam called global warming was what really got me as well as a death in our family that made me rethink things. Now looking as an outsider staring in, I can see how crazy some disciples are as well as the fever pitch of the end of the world from the master herself. Many have relinquished their real lives thinking they are doing the right thing for humanity, not realizing the reality of the situation. Reflecting back, I do appreciate the contacts I have met, friends I have made, things I have learned but it's definately behind me now.

I am pretty surprised how much influence the group has on others. I feel bad for being part of the big media campaign a couple of years ago that may have indirectly change some proples lives, but cest la vie.

Anyhow, some funny things to feed the fire from 2010:
need to translate it, basically charges of illegal immigration/labor

[www.nicematin.com]
[www.menton.maville.com]

need to translate this, she was arrested in OCT in itally for bringing animals in illegally
[www.nice.maville.com]

After all this, she dissapeared and reappeared in Cancun Mexico for the whole scam bait Global Warming Conference, COP16.

Quote
puresoul
(...)
Why I came to this web page, because I still feel hurt and have no place or person to talk about it. I still like five precepts and being vegetarian just I have lost the passion of spiritual practice and I can’t trust other methods either. I know whatever happened Organization would always give explanations. For example, if His-Hu was struck by earthquake, you would explain it’s because of initiates’ Kama. Whereas it was safe you would say it’s due to Master’s blessings. It’s all your sayings….

Thank you puresoul for your testimony. It matches with what I can understand of my friend's experience. With the difference that she was not in Taiwan but in France, and that she barely has enough money for her own expenses, which prevent her from spending that much for Ching Hai's interest (however she bought many pictures of Ching Hai, in order to "receive her energy"...)

I notice that the 2 aspects that attracted you in the cult (the five precepts and vegetarianism) actually don't belong to Ching Hai's "philosophy", and you could have follow them in many other ways. She has just copy/paste the Five Precepts of buddhism (see : The Five Precepts, and Ching Hai's five precepts), and she deliberately ignore many other aspects of the buddhist teachings. She just pick up in each religions every simplest parts, the ones that are understandable to everybody, and specially the ones that are convenient for her to achieve these self-called supernatural powers, in the eyes of her followers. About vegetarianism... well, vegetarians existed before Ching Hai, and most of vegetarians in the world have never even heard about her at all. You could have become vegetarian by yourself, as many other people.

Yes, in mid nineties, Hs-Hu (headquater) was building caves for impending war too with the fear fed by Chinghai. I myself was one of those fled to Cambodia under Master's instruction. It was quite a terrified and anxious experience. During 7 days there, she defended the war was supposed to happen but perhaps of our meditation & pray had detered the war. We all believed it was due to Her blessings....She then suggested us joinging the project of building Initiates village in Cambodia. Quite a number of initiates had dropped out because of that event. I and my family member still remained faithful to Her without doubt. This the end of world fear feeding made me rethink of that past events, I got the feeling of 'wolf crying' again.

In 2005, she reintruduced Herself as a greatest God ever, which had rekindled my FEVER of faith and spiritual practice. But soon she made many claims seemed so unreal such as 'there's an advanced civilisation living undergroud on this Earth", "SMTV was watched by millions of people on Earth and also millions of planets" (as we know SMTV is not popular and only watched by decisiples of an estimate of around 20,000 to 40,000 ), 'Her 'Words of Small Pig' had touched 140,000 people and turned to vegetarians when broadcasting on SMTV' , 'we had passed the critical point of no return', a couple of monthes later 'There's 40% peole are vegetariars now but only 100% people are vegetarians then earth can be saved', the claimes just became ludicrous as we know nothing change of people's eating behavious since the spreading of the veg info in 2006. But initiates still believe their spiritual effort and spreading the news has changed the world. I started questioning if She is God and holding the Absolute Truth, then what she says should be true and logic, verifiable particularly relating the concrete matters concerning this planet.

Not long ago, She was crying that Her attendent offering Her lousy sandwitch (not crispy), She then started blaming the attendent' past live's habbit/ karma etc and the attentent has no love for Her. [www.skeptictank.org] , from this link, I found she quite fits on the description of 'Shallow Emotions',- "They are unmoved by things that would upset the normal person, while outraged by insignificant matters. ".

Months later, there's another message that she was being hunted by Drug Dealers, she had to go hidning. She was crying that she only wanted to help the world. But drug dealers and meat industries treat Her as a threat. Then she went on to encourage deciples not to give in and strive on the mission. I doubted SMTV was that popular...even could pose that threat. If Her Fear was real, I guess She could suffer from being Paronoid.(another sympton of cult leader).

------------------
Dynamic, thanks for the news in French, I am amazed that you got news written in other language.
Her Luxuious Sports Car, a villa ,5.5 millions EURO of Menton centre letting to initiates, all easy money from poor deciples(slaves).
I feel sorry for those 9 Taiwanese arrested, they properly can't enter France anymore.

Ocean_of_Lies, you're right, Chinghai doesn't own the patent of five precepts and vegetarianism. For a long time in the minds of desciples, Vegetarianism has been an euivalant of compassion, and a criteria of True Path compared with other religions. Largely from ChingHai's emphasis and taking credit from it. She mentioned Dalai Larma before and pointed out the fact that He is not vegetarian. Then initiates remember this point and talk about Dalai Larma with despise.

SANT MAT is quite a convincing believe system, therefore, many people have fallen for it.
I like this post and am touched by the experience shared by an ex-sant mat.
False Hope [groups.yahoo.com]

@ puresoul

You are putting some extremely important on-the-ground info into this thread. There seems to be quite a number of people reading this thread, as many are having serious doubts about Chinghai and what she is doing.

For those on the inside of the group, its important to realize that in fact what Master Chinghai is doing, is not original at all. Not just things like the 5 Precepts, but all these other things she is doing, are literally "cult 101" methods.

For example:

- FEAR: Using end of the world fears. That is a common technique. It makes the followers afraid, and they will follow the sects leader, and work for free 18 hrs a day, give up all their money, sell their houses, or whatever it takes. Using FEAR to control and unify people is a basic technique, and Ching Hai does that in spades. Also, moving people to other countries and into bunkers/caves, that really separates out the true believer followers for the Guru, who stays at the 5 Star Hilton! Often, the Guru herself does NOT believe the drivel she is telling others, and knows it just a technique. In other cases, the leader is paranoid and delusional, and believes it.

- FALSE PREDICTIONS: and when the false prediction fails, she then tells everyone it was her supernatural powers, and your prayers and financial donations, which changed the worlds Karma, or whatever. Its a win/win for the Guru. If bad things happen, its your fault for not donating enough to her sect. If nothing happens, then its because the Guru is God and controlled it. So the Guru always wins in that scam.
So 2012, the world will end, so they say. When it doesn't then 2015, then repeat for the next 30 years, then retire from being a Guru with millions.

Claiming to Be God, or a God: All the Gurus claim this, so how many "Gods" can there be? Of course its just a sick fraud from a sick mind. They are just very sick humans, not "gods".

CRAZY stuff: many sects start with the crazy stuff, aliens living under the earth, Lizard shapeshifters from other dimensions, and the list goes forever. Who knows if any of the Gurus believe their own lies, but what it does is separate the group from the public, with a CRAZY belief system. Hey, if you can be made to believe aliens live under the earth, you can be made to believe literally anything. The Guru wants that. People who will believe anything she tells them.

No MEAT: many groups deprive followers of protein, not for health, but to weaken them. Also, perhaps the Guru wants to be skinnier for vanity reasons, and thinks not eating meat will keep her skinnier? Many Gurus are more vain than a hollywood actor.
But they will put followers on rice only, as the unhealthy diet makes followers more docile, that happens all the time.
(of course being a healthy vegetarian is a different thing, that is about nutrition, not cults!)


And all cult leaders abuse their followers over things like a sandwiches. Its just another way to keep people off balance, and of course the sect leaders turn into spoiled tyrants. Power corrupts.

And they all scare their followers with stories of ENEMIES trying to get the leader. So that makes people fear for the leader, give more money, etc.


The entire Ching Hai set-up is a put-on, just a classic scam seen 1000x before.
The Leader she gets her wealth, cars, homes, designer clothes, and her unpaid followers do all the work.
And the Master Guru sect leader, just uses the standard crude cultic techniques on people, and somehow they manage to pull it off, as most of the public unfortunately don't know about these types of things.
And most people are decent, and can't imagine someone would tell such BIG LIES so openly, so they believe it.
And telling the BIG LIE is another technique.

So the Ching Hai system, seems to be just another in a long line of almost identical systems, just with a few superficial changes.

Hopefully more insiders will start to come out, and spill the beans and TELL THE TRUTH about what is really going on with the Ching Hai group. Just tell the precise truth, back up with facts, and research, so the public can find out what is really going on.


As internet criticism of Ching Hai grows, expect her to say that some "enemies" from some secret "meat mafia" of some sort, are trying to bring her down. She's probably already said it. She will probably say...the meat mafia went after Oprah, and now they are coming after me... [www.madcowboy.com]

That is a pretty clever and diabolical technique actually. Then all factual criticism of her, can be blamed on her "meat enemies" trying to bring her down.
But posting the facts of where and when she calls herself a God, and all the details of the techniques she uses, that can help people look at the facts, and make up their own minds if they are being lied to and scammed for money, and being made to work for free, to make the alleged Master richer, in a classic cultic swindle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2011 12:58AM by The Anticult.