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initiate


How does any one know if they are still Siddha followers? ...
If Siddha ordered her to go off to war, then it's his own hipocracy. If she allowed herself to go off to war on his orders for political motivations, which I doubt, then she is an idiot.

I'm pretty sure Mike and his family are very much Siddha's followers and taking instructions from him. I did a google search for Mike Gabbard's campaign last year and there were many of his enemies who were exposing him as a disciple of Siddha, and this probably hurt his campaign quite a lot. (Somebody even drew a cartoon of Mike with a shaved head and a bead bag!)... Mike also had to defend himself by declaring he was a catholic and it seems like he did try and hide the fact that he was a devotee of Krishna! There were a few nasty articles in the main Honolulu daily attacking Mike, and this lost him many votes, for sure...

Personally, I was astounded to hear that Mike's daughter had gone off to war with the National Guard, and if it is true that Siddha had "ordered" this or even "encouraged" this, this is even more astounding. Certainly, Mr. Christopher Butler has changed over the last 35 years...

Initiate is right about Siddha actually believing himself to be a saint, (pure devotee). So do most of his followers. I did too or would not have been a follower for so long.

But initiate is not clear on who is pulling Mike's strings.

Maui got it pretty on the money except the GBC thing.
As he pointed out the satraps can't keep up the illusion forever. Katyayani had enough and decided to start her own cult. Sudama was banished for some disagreement. Tusta died so we will not say anything there. Who knows what was really in his heart before passing? No one. He was a faithful follower till the end.

initiate writes:

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Chris Butler is not stupid. There is no way he would jeopardize his empire over some idiot neophyte.

If Siddha ordered her to go off to war, then it's his own hipocracy. If she allowed herself to go off to war on his orders for political motivations, which I doubt, then she is an idiot.

We volunteered to check our common sense at the door and let ourselves be exploited.

I for one find it offensive that those who have been duped by the so-called guru are referred to as "idiots", particular when they are being so named by someone who was fooled himself at one point.

Furthermore, the reference to an "idiot neophyte" was made, if I am not mistaken, about a child. Do the children "check their common sense at the door" as well?

[b:b43d503375]Fill in the blank with your favorite cult or guru![/b:b43d503375]
(This is an actual quote)




"Life is schizophrenic in _______ centres,"
"Each member has lots of spiritual tasks to fulfil, like praying, going to ________ every day, training other followers, and his or her development as a free person isn't really considered - one is always under the orders of the spiritual leaders, and also under their strict control. The same happens with your money."
Members of __________ respond to these criticisms by saying that they are normal people working in the midst of the world just like anyone else, and that they are free and can leave whenever they want.
"It's a vocation," says Jose Maria Villalon. "You can freely choose your way of life and I have chosen to find God in my work as a member of ____________.
"Someone within the group could have made some mistake, even myself. That's normal in any organisation run by human beings. However I completely deny that people are manipulated or brainwashed."







:lol:

says former numerary of Opus Dei, Carmen Charo. BBC News Article, “Decoding secret world of Opus Dei”
[news.bbc.co.uk]

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initiate

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just-googling

I also found it odd when the cook in Honolulu said she wanted to commit suicide, and I thought why was she not experiencing any spiritual bliss for serving so dearly the one and only representative of god on this planet? Ridiculous, ridiculous, ridiculous.

I remember the cook very well. I hope she is doing okay in her life now. she was a beautiful human being -- so loving, gentle, and kind -- so loyal and dedicated. She once said the oddest thing to me when she was depressed. She said that she felt like she was bleeding inside, that her spirit was bleeding. I felt a lot of compassion for her, but didn't know how to help, but to say the usual platitudes. I feel like such an idiot now. I wish I had taken her to the nearest shrink.

Concerning Siddhas cook. Yes I remember her. But I think she had a happy ending. She was completely dedicated to Siddha and worked tirelessly to serve him until she could no longer muster the energy or inspiration to do so. The rumor is she met an Iskcon devotee on a plane, just a chance occurance. He was in the next seat. Probably her first astonishment was the devotee was not 'anti-Siddha' and had no horns or fangs. It was love at first flight. She wrote siddha and asked if she could marry him. SIddha did not respond. Siddha stopped communicating with most of his disciples ages ago. I don't think he even opened letters anymore. He hardly ever responded to disciples who needed answers to their spiritual troubles. I think he only communicated with his money makers, politicians, media and business empire moguls. The rumor is she married the guy. I hope that is a true rumor and she got a better situation than she had while siddha's servant. GOD BLESS HER. She was a sensitive sincere seeker of truth.

Hi all once again, more thoughts on the latest postings:

Glad to hear that the sweet cook got a better life! Maybe she was too sensitive to be serving such a harsh and bad tempered master... I can believe that Siddha only dealt with the money makers, politicians, etc., as that was the way things were swinging in the 1980s as well...

Incarnation of God's Mother in the spiritual world??? Is this what Katyayani is calling herself, or is this what some of her whacky followers are claiming?! If she is claiming to be this, then the question is: "Are these people what they claim to be ... OR are they just a bunch of whacky megalomaniacs?"... I remember one devotee once said that Jagat Guru means "Lord of the Universe" (maybe he was influenced by the Star Wars trilogy?)...

Rick Reid and Carter: One day Rick came in to see me and told me that Carter did not want to be a devotee any more... We were shocked as she had been the topmost devotee for quite a while. My guess is that she got sick of all the bull, as Rick was Siddha's right man at that time and she must have had privy to a lot of it (bull, that is)... I heard that Rick went back to the mainland - I wonder if he is still a follower, or what?

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devadasi
Srila Prabhupada was so unhappy that he chastised others for not being more humble around Siddha and he even blamed some for pushing Siddha out of Iskcon. It is all in the folio. There was no agenda to cover up the things that happened both good and bad. There was no conspiracy. Just a few loud mouthed 'want to be guru' neophyte devotees making bluffs about doing Siddha in. There was no real conspiracy. There was no agenda to make up things to discredit Siddha, he did that himself, he did enough on his own. There was no need to make up extra things.

Devadasi-

You can believe what you choose to believe and be an ISKCON apologist, but you were not there. I was there when the threats of violence were real. This was no joke! You weren’t at the Los Angeles temple after these guys cruelly harassed Siddha. At one point, he turned around, raised his Sanyassi stick and sarcastically yelled at them the famous Jim Morrison line, “I want the world and I want it now!” because that’s what the GBC wanted and were fighting over. What’s in the “folio” does not record what Bhaktivedanta’s thugs did! Do you honestly think they shared all of their activities!?

Guys with lawyers came over to Hawaii to try to confiscate cash, property and any businesses that could be earmarked for ISKCON. (Remember, ISKCON was a legal entity.) There was a lot of money and property at stake, especially when Down To Earth started making bucks! Siddha was smart not to have any legal affiliation or they would have succeeded. He had good reason to separate from that organization! I don’t blame him for wanting independence.

One ISKCON guy who chanted on large pearl japa beads and was married to a rich Japanese heiress had the chutzpah to come to a gathering on Kauai to check out the property, only to find a rented house in the jungle with muddy paths and no electricity! They were so worried about getting their silk robes all dirty! You seem to think that Bhaktivedanta was aware of everything that was going on in his organization. He wasn’t. Temple presidents had a lot of autonomy. I go way back to the “Monkey on a Stick” days! I KNEW the dope dealing temple prez in southern California! I am no apologist for Abay Charan either. Maybe ISKCON has cleaned up their act now since many of the “Soprano” mafia types were indicted, in jail, dead, or gone.

Perhaps in the end, Siddha became what he hated most when he was young. Now that all of the people from the old days are banished or gone, he doesn’t have to be reminded of this.

Yes, if Siddha wanted to keep what he considered his, it was essential that he separate from ISKCON, obviously.
Sounds like he did pretty well for himsef after the split, too.

A sadhu owns nothing. Prabhupada once said, 'If Iskcon gets in the way it should be left." So that really said it all. If I appear to be an apologist so be it. Sadhus do not fight over property. Who threw the first punch whether it was the pseudo sannyasi's in Iskcon or the pseudo sannyasi Siddha is insignificant. Siddha fought for property, presitige and his coveted position as guru and so did all the others. Who was more right than the other is of little significance to me. They were all wrong.

The simple devotees on the side went unnoticed. They are the ones who will carry on the line.

If I offended anyone here please forgive me.

Have a nice day and please remember God (Krishna) loves us all.

[b:dac92d78b0]THE EVOLUTION OF POLITICAL CONSCIOUNESS[/b:dac92d78b0]

Siddha’s initial involvement inpolitics evolved out of his interest in protecting the environment. He was interested in preserving beaches and maintaining public access for surfers. He didn’t want the Islands to become over run with tourism and developments. It was during the gas crisis of the 1970’s. He was inspired by E.F. Schumacher’s book “[u:dac92d78b0]Small Is Beautiful[/u:dac92d78b0]”. He quoted him for his book, “[u:dac92d78b0]False Identity Equals Bad Economy”. [/u:dac92d78b0]
(full text: [www.iskcon.net]
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“Misidentifying ourselves with the material body is the cause of all our present economic problems. E.F. Schumacher was the first modern economist to point out this fact. He has thus given the world an invaluable gift in the form of his book Small Is Beautiful:
[i:dac92d78b0]“I think Gandhi has given the answer: "There must be recognition of the existence of the soul apart from the body, and of its permanent nature, and this recognition must amount to a living faith; and, in the last resort, non-violence does not avail those who do not possess a living faith in the God of Love."

“As the world's resources of non renewable fuels-coal, oil and natural gas-are exceedingly unevenly distributed over the globe and undoubtedly limited in quantity, it is clear that their exploitation at an ever increasing rate is an act of violence against, nature which must almost inevitably lead to violence between men.”[/i:dac92d78b0]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Siddha was concerned about the effects of tourism, development, and pollution in the Hawaiian Islands and lectured a lot about it. Hawaii was considered a piece of the planet left over from another, more enlightened time and not of this age of darkness and ignorance, the Kali Yuga (according to Vedas).

Siddha created the third party called “[u:dac92d78b0]Independents for Godly Government[/u:dac92d78b0]” and got some of his followers to run for office. The party was peopled solely by Siddha’s Krishna devotees, period. Their platform was a mixture of right and left wing ideas. The candidates of Independents for Godly Government did extraordinarily well, considering it was a new party in a state where the Democratic machine was so strong. They got a good percentage of the votes and some of his students have remained in politics for years.

More than anything, the secrecy thing put people off. Hawaiians are a very tolerant and sentimental people who support their own. A lot of the candidates that ran were locally grown, born and bred, young, idealistic, and vibrant. Very appealing. Bill Penaroza, Kathy Hoshijo, Wayne Nishiki. (Gabbard, Reed came later). But the lies and subtrofuge did them in. They would have won a lot more seats if the media had not gotten wind of their afilition to Krishna and published their Sanscrit names and connection to Chris Butler. Later, seeing the impossibility of an independent party ever gaining any power, the followers joined the Democratic Party (the winning team at the time) and then on to the Republican Party which favored their anti-abortion and anti-homosexual marriage stances.

If they had been transparent in the beginning and persistent with their message and service to the community, being open that Siddha (another local boy) was the founder of IGG and advisor, and had given up the propensity to put down others, this group could have been a powerful influence for the good. It was Siddha’s own paranoia and attachment to being a divine being and puppet master that failed his students. They could have stood behind freedom of religion, multiculturalism and tolerance for which Hawaii has a natural affinity.

I haven’t researched his followers voting records, but from articles I have gleaned, they were quite a team of environmentalists who may have had a good impact in this area. Organized crime was another area of interest. They made a lot of enemies here. I don’t know the impact, but Rick Reed, former assistant to City Prosecutor Chuck Marsland, went after Larry Mehau, thinking him to be the “Godfather” of organized crime in Hawaii. Siddha had his followers start newspapers prior to the campaigns which printed articles about crime and political corruption in Hawaii. Of course these papers were never in Siddha’s name, only in his student’s names, but he had full control over the content and direction. Mehau sued everyone (but Siddha who was the original author behind the allegations and because everything was in his followers names). I don’t know the outcome of the lawsuits or if crime was lessened by Siddha’s influence or not. I do know that he had his hand on his followers every move. He indeed was a “godfather” of sorts (probably still is), for good or for bad, I don’t have any facts. That’s up to the karma police.

The funny thing about Rick Reed is that he was this golden boy from the mainland that fell into Siddha’s group. He was well spoken and well bred. A cultural anomaly in a sea of ex-hippies and surfers. He was put in charge of the newspaper on Maui and made a media spokesperson and point man for a lot of projects. He had the smile. Siddha once told him jokingly that he was so good looking and charismatic that he could start his own cult and went on describing the steps and theology he could teach. It was a joke and all for fun. Instead, he was groomed for political office. Is Siddha simply a perceptive life coach or a Svengali? I can’t judge because I don’t know what Rick has done as a politician. I know that I gained a lot of life and job skills that otherwise would not have developed had I not let myself be a pawn in Siddha’s hands. I don’t regret the price I paid for that. I look at those years as a sort of internship that has paid off in time.

From Hawaiian reporter.com
[www.hawaiireporter.com]
“He’s Back – and at his Old Stomping Grounds
A former State Senator made an appearance at the state Legislature yesterday to lobby his former peers. Rick Reed, who represented Maui, Molokai and Lanai in the House of Representatives, stepped down to run for congress against U.S. Senator Daniel Inouye. He lost, but was running against Inouye when the scandal about Inouye's proclivity for reaching out and touching someone female, including his hairdresser, became national news. Reed was most recently living in Washington D.C. May 23, 2006.”
A few links about Rick Reed -
[archives.cjr.org]
[www.hawaiireporter.com]
[www.the-catbird-seat.net]

Wayne Nishiki was also a follower who completed a 22-year career as a respected Maui county councilman. I don’t know if he has been as independent of interest groups as he claims, being a Siddha follower. His two drunk driving convictions are actually a relief in that they are indicative of him falling away from Siddha, as drinking is strictly prohibited. He acknowledges his involvement in yoga and meditation and has a good record as an environmentalist.
[starbulletin.com]

Kathy Hoshijo was also a follower who was pushed into running for office. She hated the campaigns and lost. It impacted her yoga life style and young kids in a very negative way. She had a fake marriage to another follower so brochures could show a happy family. She enjoyed her cooking shows and status as a pure devotee within the group. She got free housekeeping, child care, nice houses, and people fawning over and pampering her. She was definitely a queen bee. She was listed as a co-owner of Down To Earth. Again, no paper trail to link Chris Butler. Now she is rumored to be banished from Siddha and has her own guru business. She is really Siddha’s truest follower emulating his footsteps exactly. She even stole some of his followers into her camp. Looks like all his grooming kind of backfired.
[starbulletin.com]
[www.oasistv.com]

Mike Gabbard was also a follower. His career is well documented. He came into the group (I think) in the 1980’s. He originally came to start a school with his wife. They were good and professional educators. The school was well run. I have only good memories of Mike and his lovely wife. I think he had the most successful family life of any of the devotees because it was established before he became involved with Siddha. He was a nice guy and perfect for politics. I don’t know what happened to the school.

The bottom line is if Siddha’s involvement in their lives is only a simple matter of religious freedom or the evil of undue influence? Are these the first politicians to vote the dictates of their religious beliefs or is there an insidious plot at work? Is this a McCarthy witch hunt that would deprive people of their freedom to hold their own beliefs or have his followers put the State of Hawaii in jeopardy? Are they crazed vegetarians or ordinary and flawed people? Have they changed Hawaiian politics or has politics changed them?