Run forest Run, Consider yourself fortunate in your misfortune for not having experienced any transcendence.
This makes it easier to turn your back and have no doubts that it was all bogus.
In my case I could never have that certitude as my experiences could only be featured in scifi movies.
Apparently this path and deities relate to everybody in different ways.
So your views and conclusions are very valid and noone should judge you.
All faith based people relate to invisible deities. Be it christ, Allah…
And many people have mystical experiences with their own deities.
I have a friend who saw the apparition of mother Mary when she was younger Mary told her what the future would bring to her and her family.
Yes the mythology is far out. However there are supernatural beings behind all religions. And it is not just a faith based psychosis.
I can boldly say this because of a lifetime of experiences with different paths. Despite the fact that I have been accused of only knowing about bhakti yoga.
Yes the Kirtans and appearance days were the bliss harvesting events. No matter how much you slaved or were punished, you could take shelter of kirtans.
It was not just bliss. There were also times kirtans would help purge tears of sadness. After being abused, you had to brainwash yourself that it is chastisement. And run to daddies (nitai gaur and krishna) and fall at their feet.
Staying because you are slave to your affection to deities you only see in pictures.
Even worse than this, thinking your guru is spotless and pure beyond measure.
Yes those make belief days were quite sweet. I wish I had not gone so deep down the rabbit hole. Opened so many doors and enter different dimensions.
I sometimes envy my old friends for staying in their limited prisons. They think they are so advanced preaching to me about forgiveness, how I am listening to my mind, karma… I guess we must just listen to butler’s OCD mind.
If you ever go deep enough into the rabbit hole, it becomes clear that religions and their mythology are a protection.
To live in this reality without a set belief is easy only if we do not dig very deep. And those who do are seen as conspiracy theorists.
When one sees this reality for what it is, it gets very difficult to carry on.
There is no gain in being extremely lucid other than not being able to relate to others or have fulfilling conversations.
So devotees are happy in their make belief krishna land. They are clueless but think they have been given the absolute truth. They are protected like babies.
They have enough scriptures to last them 20 lifetimes.
It is only by going very deep, that one realizes that there is no absolute truth. But many truths mixed with lies.
Each soul is where they are supposed to be. They are just being moved on the chess board.
I thought I wanted to make it my mission to battle the corruption and lies of SoI.
But it is a waste of time and energy. The suffering of those who decide to get duped and abused, is not a cross I should be carrying.
Same way that noone tried to make my suffering lighter in this lifetime.
If they see abuse as burning off karma or mercy, I guess they will be fine.
They only have the illusion of being advanced. Not even grasping that they have been catering to the OCDs of a pure devotee for decades.
To hell with the middle men and so many rules and regulations to approach deities.
If any diety wants to relate to me, I don’t need a 700 pages guideline and a few fallible humans to facilitate that relation.
Only beggars can’t be choosers.
And devotees are purposely kept in a low, weak, vulnerable position. And the genius brainwashing of bhakti yoga is to make you believe that this is the creme of the creme of spiritual advancement. To be a lowly humble servant of any jackass who sits on the high chair.

Gonna leave this here...

[skepticmeditations.com]

[skepticmeditations.com]

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

For those who do not want to read it:

Conclusions
We describe here that repetitive speech, an easy cognitive task, is sufficient to induce a wide-spread unidirectional reduction in activation in the human cortex even outside the context and training of commonly practiced Mantra. This behavior appears to lead to a wide-spread activity reduction in brain processes which may compete with this task, including the thought-related default mode network. This surprising finding provides important new insights into a possible nonlinear gating mechanism of high level cognitive processes that could underlie the phenomena of purely task-negative cortical responses. By examining behavioral measures, we confirmed, in line with the cortical reduced activation, that repetitive speech induces a significant reduction in thought-related cognitive processes. Our study thus suggests a neuronal mechanism that may account for the uniquely calming effect of Mantra meditative practice, explaining its wide use across cultural and historical boundaries.

I have decided that what I experienced at SoI is not something I will call Bhakti Yoga.
So I am not qualified to judge this practice because I have never been exposed to the real deal.
What I experienced was a perverted version.
A so called guru who has not conquered his own lower self trying to take others to higher planes is absurd.
There are a few pearls that has been thrown to swines in both these groups (Iskcon and SoI). And thankfully many of them do well and they have not been polluted or affected.
Those solid, more pure souls thankfully bring some light into the darkness.
SoI is a very materialistic version of bhakti yoga. They want the best of the 2 worlds.
Let us travel, wear mini skirts and worship Krishna on the side for fun between some instagram shots, veggie restaurants, surfing, skiing, looking for a wife or husband.
Let me give a class to the students between few first class trips, massages, and evian water.
Not even encouraged to visit the holy places we hear about 24/7 in India.
My years at SoI can be considered an interesting study of cults and all kinds of psychological disorders. But I will not call it spiritual life.
It was more a purgatory and in purgatory one cannot be surprised to cross paths a few demons here and there.
I guess that I myself belonged with them back then. Maybe I did not deserve a better setting.
I am not judging the materialistic approach of SOI and the more loose version. It is just not how it is supposed to be. So it is fair not to call it krishna consciousness.
I will try to make peace with all the supernatural pain that was imposed upon me for so many years. I will never know who were the beings behind it.
I will not judge a path based on the non sensical or irrational behavior, or words of the gurus that represent that path.
Any path can be perverted by so called humans under the influence of nasty forces.
It is up to each person to use their discernment instead of just criticizing the faulty humans or those who cheat us.
Even if someone puts pepper spay in our material eyes, we always have the inner vision some call the 3 rd eye.
We cannot fully forget SoI as we will have to suffer the presence of Tulsi gabbard on TV and political scene.
The path of Krishna Consc. is like the movie Gremlins. It can go very wrong if mishandled.
I cannot truly blame the likes of butler as they are being used like actors. They just don’t know they are following a script in a very complex cosmic game.
We are fortunate we left the Butler show at whatever cost.
For those who have only expeeienced the negatives, or nothing at all, I cannot imagine how terrible it must have been.
I have great compassion but I always have to side with truth and honesty. My experiences makes it so that I cannot throw the baby with bath water.
However I will always respect and support those who think this path is absolute bogus. Because experiences are unique. So is each soul.
Thank you Iskcon and ACB for the 12 th “not so naked” emperor and the kindergarten vaishnavism. It has been fun and interesting playng in the sandbox with butler vesrion devotees.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2022 07:50PM by Truth wins.

Truth Wins:"They have enough scriptures to last them 20 lifetimes.
It is only by going very deep, that one realizes that there is no absolute truth. But many truths mixed with lies.
Each soul is where they are supposed to be. They are just being moved on the chess board.
I thought I wanted to make it my mission to battle the corruption and lies of SoI.
But it is a waste of time and energy. The suffering of those who decide to get duped and abused, is not a cross I should be carrying.
Same way that noone tried to make my suffering lighter in this lifetime.
If they see abuse as burning off karma or mercy, I guess they will be fine.
They only have the illusion of being advanced. Not even grasping that they have been catering to the OCDs of a pure devotee for decades.
To hell with the middle men and so many rules and regulations to approach deities.
If any diety wants to relate to me, I don’t need a 700 pages guideline and a few fallible humans to facilitate that relation.
Only beggars can’t be choosers.
And devotees are purposely kept in a low, weak, vulnerable position. And the genius brainwashing of bhakti yoga is to make you believe that this is the creme of the creme of spiritual advancement. To be a lowly humble servant of any jackass who sits on the high chair." End quote.

Right you are. Unfortunately, now this cancer called Butler and Tulsi G- well, they want to rule the world, well at least the USA. But with an ego like Butler's you can see where this political nonsense is going. And that is where I draw the line. We all have free choice so if the brainwashed followers choose to honor the jackass of Kailua, that is their choice. But do not impose this idiocy on the world.

To comment from a Pole's point of view and understanding:

[twitter.com]

[edition.cnn.com]

Quote

1) Just as Russia was invading Ukraine last week, Gabbard sent out this decidedly pro-Russia tweet: "This war and suffering could have easily been avoided if Biden Admin/NATO had simply acknowledged Russia's legitimate security concerns regarding Ukraine's becoming a member of NATO, which would mean US/NATO forces right on Russia's border."

The matter goes deeper. Here T. Gabbard is right in the aspect that Putin's fears have been ignored. The comment was "they don't want to go back a millimeter". What can be understood about Ukraine's accession to the EU and NATO. One has to be naive to count on the fact that Putin does not react. However, he is not alone in the geopolitical understanding of the importance of the Baltic-Black Sea Bridge. He is supported by Patriarch Cyril I and Nikolai Patrushev, a colleague from the KGB. And others. The status of Crimea, which generally belonged to Khan (Crimean Khanate), is problematic. The Ukrainians did not deliver water to Crimea after 2014. In turn, the Ukrainians were preparing for the war from 2014 and they did it very well. It can be seen that in the military index they jumped to 22 place, ahead of Poland, which is a huge leap. They believed no one. In decline after the USSR, they retained the great potential of the armaments industry, which restarted when they started earning money in Poland.

In turn, T. Gabbard is credited with the words defending W. Putin - "the right to invade". And here, if this is true, she has gone too far in defense of W.Putin.

Quote

2) Over the weekend, Gabbard spoke at the Conservative Political Action Conference -- not exactly friendly ground for most Democrats. "They're hypocrites," Gabbard said of the leaders of her party in the speech. "They proclaim that we must go to war to spread democracy and freedom while they actively work to undermine our democratic republic and our freedoms right here at home."

Spreading democracy doesn't work. Different cultures, different societies. What and what but Vedantists should understand this. Iraq, Afghanistan. Russians generally do not want real democracy either. There are whole statements about the Russian mentality on this subject. In addition, when democracy is spreading - for example Iraq - some are forgotten - for example the Kurds - tens of millions of Kurds without their own state.

Politics is a black forest. Or, as the Polish proverb says - "when you do in shit, you can't have clean hands".

From the perspective of Hawaiian comfort and abundance, one cannot understand these subtleties.

It's just like mr. Midgett. In his video lecture, Midgett spoke about the availability of sense gratification to a Ukrainian or a Russian woman. Where, just a few years ago, as it was emphasized at the Forum, Ukrainians could earn 10 times more in Poland, and 40 times more in Germany. To whom this message, Mr. Midget?

Mr. Midgett is a hero because his electricity was turned off and he had to carry water. Ukraine - there was poverty there and now the bombs are flying. Flesh is on fire. Etc.

And some say that talented people from Atmasfera band wanted to collect money to go abroad. Leave Ukraine. So much spiritual potency to leave Ukrainians. Cowards? Or just forget karmis...



Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2022 08:25PM by Culthusiast.

To complicate it even more, the ruling party (PiS, "law and justice") is pro-American, in the words of the enemy of Putin, in practice accused of supporting Russia (recognized as the most infiltrated Polish party by Russian intelligence). In turn, the PO ("civic platform" considered to be more pro-German - Germany in the first phase failed the Ukrainians by promising to send 5,000 helmets when they sell weapons for billions of euros annually), the SLD (left) considered to be more equilibrium but friendly with Russia and the PSL (involved in unclear ties with Russia). Kukiz'15 and Konfederacja (leader J.M.Korwin-Mikke openly gloryfing W.Putin in the past), relatively young parties.

PiS is the most provocative, spending billions in the US, accused of breaking Europe's unity and being a Russian asset.

In the same time, when legends from Atmasfera wanted to leave Ukraine, some polish experienced soldiers went to Ukraine to fight and support. But they're just karmis.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2022 08:47PM by Culthusiast.

Voxveritas Vita Das, these past 1.5 years have made me sick to my stomach.
I already knew this group was non sense but after studying it deeper in here, it became almost a horror movie.
I am absolutely ashamed that I was part of that criminospiritual organization.
Well finally butler has found his field: Politics.
Where all the dishonest people such as himself roam. It is unfortunate he did not choose this path. Better cheat the people as a politician than the “representative of god”.
We see this garbage for what it is. They see it for Krishna loka on earth.
They see it as doing the masses a great favor. They aspire to create a more peaceful world. Nothing wrong with that. But we all know how they treat their own behind the scenes.
I guess that by now Tulsi is possibly seen as another SoI version pure devotee.
So it is darshan that she shows up on TV. I would not be surprised if this is their reasoning.

Culthusiats, I guess that the devotees are mostly worried about Atmasfera in the Ukraine. Because as we know it, in this group only the useful, talented, pretty… and the elite are important.
Others are just another bowing head. Who cares if a bimb falls in your head. It will just mean graduation and going back home.
But let us save the musical demigods of SoI at all cost.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Culthusiats, I guess that the devotees are mostly
> worried about Atmasfera in the Ukraine. Because as
> we know it, in this group only the useful,
> talented, pretty… and the elite are important.

Sure. "Guru" knew how to call and thank Atmasfera. You know, the image, a lot of people at the concert, etc. But did he mention those who helped to selflessly stick posters or to feed of the homeless all those years? Somehow I did not hear.

> Others are just another bowing head. Who cares if
> a bimb falls in your head. It will just mean
> graduation and going back home.

Sure. Look a this. No to by "lower than a straw in the street". "Be more"???

[www.facebook.com]

Quote

V-Convention is where the family we’ve built in the last two decades meet to recharge, be inspired, be empowered, and be motivated to do more and be more. #VCC2022

Yeaah...We support in business, we are a couch. We encourage you to earn more and be more. And when you join a sect, "be lower than the straw in the street.

Bua ha ha haa ...

Sweeties, cheapest shit, whatever you might hear. Chocolate mixed shit. With crunchies...Polish "chrupki z dupki".

Feeding the homeless is not fancy enough for these materialistic devotees.
The kind that make butler proud such as Atmasfera and Tulsi are worth being mentioned. The lowly servants better serve in the kitchen and clean toilets.
I remember when someone was very useful and talented, the leader of our center took so much pride in it.
It was almost as though she was a talent agent and that she could take credit for her discovery.
Then the talented people were mostly shipped off to Hawaii to become full time free labor.
I think the most freeing thing is to get over all the fear and paranoia butler planted in the psyches.
That being offensive to him is spiritual suicide. But suicide is actually entering that hell hole they call spiritual life.