Greetings:

I have read a few articles at the Rick Ross site about the cult-like aspects of Anthroposophy , Rudolf Steiner , and the Waldorf School schools.

I'm wondering if anyone has some specific information regarding the Rudolf Steiner Intentional Community?

It's run by the Rudolf Steiner Fellowship and is dominated "spiritually" by Anthroposophy.

Their site is:

[www.fellowshipcommunity.org]


It's generally referred to as the: "Fellowship Community" and is located in Spring Valley, NY.

The workers there generally work for there room and board as well as some small stipend. Their children are expected to attend the Waldorf School on the premises of this Intentional Community.

So far , all the online information I could gather about this community is [b:faa12ca3c4]that which the community puts out about itself[/b:faa12ca3c4]. Namely, that it's an intergenerational community centered around the care of the aged.

I'm wondering if anyone has had any direct involvement with this group, or has personal information about people who have.

It is of personal importance that I learn all I can about them, apart of that which is said of them by official spokesmen of the Intentional Community movement and/or by spokesmen of that community itself.

Thanks in advance:

-Ira

Hi Ira -

I am vaguely familiar with the Fellowship Community. I went to a workshop there once. It seemed like a pretty nice place.

I went there in the context of living in a different Steiner-based community in the Northeast or almost 2 years in the late 1990's.I'll tell you about my experience there because it was a similar place.

I moved there specifically to learn about farming and had little knowledge (or even interest) in anthroposophy. I was one of the 'co-workers' who live and work there for a small monthly stipend. About half of the residents were developmentally disabled adults (rather than elderly), a dozen or so co-workers like me, and then the long-term residents (who were mostly anthroposophists) who ran the households and the oversaw work areas (eg farm, bakery, orchard, etc) and their families - some had kids.

I have mixed feelings about my experience there. I guess I won't bore you with all the details but I will address the areas I am guessing you have concern about.

As a non-anthroposophist, in fact, as a non-Christian, I felt no pressure *at all* to get involved with the religious aspect of the community the whole time I was there. There was a weekly church service on Sundays and I went one time out of curiousity, but I was never pressured to go by any of the long-term residents (who mostly were anthroposophists - some more devoutly than others).

In some ways, our lives were permeated by Steiner's philosophy - very little amplified music (but lots of acoustic), a general 'no TV' rule (although some of the households had one but never in a prominent place), very little alcohol consumption (again there were some exceptions, and the younger temporary folks like me had a place to hang out where we would drink, smoke pot etc. and the only time this became an issue was when one of the teenage kids was hanging around us which is understandable). We would bless every meal but with very vague, nature-oriented blessings/prayers that even a nonbeliever like me felt comfortable saying.

At one point I decided I might as well try to learn a little more about anthroposophy so I talked to some of the long-term residents to see where I should start. I read a few recommended Steiner lectures, thought it was interesting but didn't get too far. I did ask questions and challenged some of the ideas to some of the people there and they were very open to talking about it. It didn't seem cult-y to me at all at the time because, as I said before, they never pressured me into adopting the philosophical or spiritual ideas of Steiner.

Very few of the short-term people were American, I was an exception. I think that mostly has to do with how little money you make living there - you are considered a volunteer. But there were lots of Europeans. Some were inclined toward anthroposophy, some were just kinda hippies (like I was) who wanted to live close to the land and learn about agriculture, who wanted an opportunity to live in the US for awhile. There were always several young German men doing their year of civil service there (as an alternative to joining the german army).

At the time I thought it was an excellent experience. I gained a lot there- a strong work ethic, a deeper understanding and appreciation of nature and earth rhythms in a very basic sense, the skills of horticulture. Living and working with DD adults put the world in a new perspective.

Also, having worked with DD adults in other settings, I have to say that this was an amazing place for them to live, as far as the day-to-day lifestyle they had. Better than any group home I have seen, there was a real sense of family, there was real work to do with tangible results, pride in what they were doing, there was a freedom to move about the 500 acres with little restriction, there was a concerted effort to minimize pharma medications and try alternative therapies (I know there are probably mixed feelings about that here but there is a tendency to overmedicate DD folks to make their behavior easier to deal with for caretakers).

That said - in the last few years I have done some reading and research into Steiner and I have come across a lot of things that concern me. Some of his philosophy has very racist and elitist connotations. I have learned that his personal history was commonly misrepresented by anthroposophists, specifically in regard to the Nazis and why he had to leave Germany under Hitler's regime. I always had the impression that it was because he was a dissenter but it isn't that simple.

I recommend reading this:

[www.waldorfcritics.org]

Honestly, despite all the wonderful things I can say about my time in a Steiner community, if I had known then what I know now I probably would have picked a different farm community to live on. I have struggled a little to fit some of the ugliness of Steiner's philosophy with the kind, caring, generous people I met. I wonder how many of them only know the revised version of his past and his philosophies without understanding its roots.

This is all I have time to write at the moment, but if you have any questions please feel free to ask me. I probably won't be here often but I will check in from time to time.

Now that I am posting here, I want to give props to Rick and all the members here - I lurk a lot here and find it very interesting.

Kudos back atcha, eggplant. This link you provided is something else.

I knew Waldorf schools are alternative but I had NO IDEA they were so far off the radar.

I wonder if the curriculum differs according to the provincial or state standards. Their practise of not allowing a child to enter first grade until they have lost their baby teeth wouldn't fly around here; kids need to be in a certain grade at a certain age unless there are health or learning problems.

That must be some kind of typo also; most people don't lose all their baby teeth until they're 12 or so. They start losing them around age 6. (Due to some weird genetics I actually still have baby teeth. My adult son has the same issue. I'd hate to think we'd be repeating kindergarten for the umpteenth time...)

VERY interesting info about Steiner's support of the Nazi regime. Infuriating, but interesting.

I have bookmarked that link to forward to people who may want to put their kids in a Waldorf school. Parents talk about potential schools for their tots and when this comes up I'll be sure to direct them to that site.

Thanks for your insight and the link!

I appreciated your detailed account, Eggplant.

Many follow-up questions. Here are a few.

1) You say that there was no pressure on the co-workers there to adopt Anthroposophical teachings. From your write-up, I sense you went there as an individual without children. My interest is whether this "no pressure" policy applies to the children as well.

There are some 30 children at the Rudolf Steiner Fellowship in NY, the children of the "co-workers" , most of whom are expected to attend the [b:3289b6e8db]Waldorf School [/b:3289b6e8db]nearby. Are these children free from indoctrination as well?

2) The disproportionate number of [b:3289b6e8db]foreign co-workers[/b:3289b6e8db], mostly from Europe, is a bit odd.

Aren't there are many Americans who join other intentional communities and work there simply for the privilege of living there? They often expect little in the way of compensation, and some actually pay simply to be there. So why the preponderance of European co-workers? Do you think that substituting this for military service was really the main reason?


3) Are the work hours unusually long?


4) Suppose you had desired to continue residing there on a long term basis-- - to make it your home as a co-worker---would you have been permitted to do so? [b:3289b6e8db]Or is the tendency for co-workers to leave after a year or two unless they somehow move up into the core group? [/b:3289b6e8db]Are decisions as to who joins, who stays, and who leaves made exclusively by that core group?


5) If they in fact would have allowed you to stay on , do you suppose that would have required you to join the Anthroposophical movement?


I realize we're speaking of two different Intentional Communities here. The one you worked at was somewhat smaller than the one I'm asking about. I'm guessing the one you describe was : Plowshare Farm. [I might be wrong though]

But I'd still be interested in more in-depth info on the above details, as they both seem to be postulated on similar principles and are Steiner communities.

I'm still hoping someone with specific info on that NY group might respond as well.

Thanks again

Ira

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ira
I appreciated your detailed account, Eggplant.

Many follow-up questions. Here are a few.

1) You say that there was no pressure on the co-workers there to adopt Anthroposophical teachings. From your write-up, I sense you went there as an individual without children. My interest is whether this "no pressure" policy applies to the children as well.

You are correct, I have no kids. I can't really remember anyone who went there with kids who wasn't what they called a 'houseparent' - someone who has committed to a longer-term stay, and they were mostly anthroposophists. So I don't really have any context to answer that one, although my instinct is that there wouldn't have been pressure.

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ira
There are some 30 children at the Rudolf Steiner Fellowship in NY, the children of the "co-workers" , most of whom are expected to attend the [b:aec5249e42]Waldorf School [/b:aec5249e42]nearby. Are these children free from indoctrination as well?

The kids at the farm where I lived all went to the Waldorf School nearby, but their parents were all anthroposophists, As with the community in general, I have such mixed feelings about Waldorf Schools. There are some excellent aspects to this style of education (I am no expert and I have no children so this is just imho), and frankly the kids I knew at the farm were some of the most level-headed, down-to-earth and open-minded kids I ever met. I don't really know how much of Steiner's 'dark side' is present in the school having never gone to one. Honestly, until pretty recently I would have seriously considered sending my kids (if I have any) to a Waldorf school if it weren't cost prohibitive. I know that locally many of the kids at the Waldorf Schools' parents have no connection with Anthroposophy, they just like the style of education there. I currently live in a college town with lots of wealthy yuppie types who love the fancy private schools LOL.

Given all that, this is pure speculation, but I really don't think there is anthroposophist 'indoctrination' at Waldorf Schools. I imagine there are some teachers who are more intense about Steiner than others, but my understanding is that Waldorf Schools want the non-anthroposphist public to be comfortable sending their kids there.

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ira
2) The disproportionate number of [b:aec5249e42]foreign co-workers[/b:aec5249e42], mostly from Europe, is a bit odd.

Aren't there are many Americans who join other intentional communities and work there simply for the privilege of living there? They often expect little in the way of compensation, and some actually pay simply to be there. So why the preponderance of European co-workers? Do you think that substituting this for military service was really the main reason?

I was surprised by that too. As for americans joining intentional communities, most of the people I know who did so weren't interested in living with DD adults (I apologize b/c I don't know the 'PC' terminology but I am using DD for Developmentally Disabled). I ended up there quite randomly. It's a lot different than other communities I have visited. And when I was researching communities to go to I was a little turned off/concerned by the vaguely Christian flavor personally, I imagine many young people are - not that they are anti-Christian, just that at that point in their lives (mostly early-mid 20s) they may not be so interested in it.

And I want to clarify - the long-term people, the houseparents, were mostly American. There were a few Europeans, many of whom had helped found the community 30-odd years ago, but the majority of them were American.

For the young German men, I am certain that it was 'civildienst' (alternative service) that brought the majority of them there. In fact, I had a 3 year relationship with one of the young German men so I can be 100% certain with him, LOL. These other young co-workers were my social life, I was very close with some of them (and still in contact with a few, 10 years later). Most of these guys just wanted to come to the states and this was a great opportunity to do so. The same is true for the young women that came from Europe. A small number (maybe 10%) of the young co-workers were involved in anthroposophy but the rest were not.

I don't know if this balance has changed, though, given the events of the last 6 or 7 years, difficulty obtaining visas, etc.

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ira
3) Are the work hours unusually long?

Yes and no. For most areas of work, the work-week hours were from 8:30am-noon, and then from 2:30-5pm. However, there were always other tasks, like making breakfast certain days of the week, weekend meals, doing dishes, etc. And when you live with DD adults, anytime you are around them you are pretty much 'on the job', in a sense, having to be aware of what is happening, helping them make tea, dealing with conflicts or health-related problems, etc. Every co-worker is given an afternoon off during the week when you can do whatever you want, and evenings were usually flexible based on the activities of those in your household. There were generally cars available for driving to the city or going somewhere else during free time.

For land workers, this is a whole different story (dairy farm, vegetable garden, orchard). We were given fewer responsibilities in the household, esp during the growing season, because we had to work a *lot* of extra hours. Harvesting as soon as it was light enough to see, often working till dark in the evening (although in the heat of late July.August we often had a longer break midday). Of course the winter was a little mellower for us (except for the dairy, where I worked my first winter there - that was the hardest I have worked in my life!).

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ira
4) Suppose you had desired to continue residing there on a long term basis-- - to make it your home as a co-worker---would you have been permitted to do so? [b:aec5249e42]Or is the tendency for co-workers to leave after a year or two unless they somehow move up into the core group? [/b:aec5249e42]Are decisions as to who joins, who stays, and who leaves made exclusively by that core group?

I can think of one family in particular who were not anthroposophists at all. Their son was DD and and they had been pretty much subsistence living on their own somewhere in Tennessee. They realized that he need a little more socialization etc, but they wanted to live with him, and this community was the perfect balance. They ran a household for years, and respected the basic norms of the community but they weren't into the anthroposophy thing at all.

I know that I could have stayed as long as I was willing as a land-worker - in fact, I extended my original length of commitment a couple times. I think there was a bit of a struggle to keep people there because the benefits weren't so great, the reality of the 'outside world', concerns about retirement and aging, etc...so I think there was a fair amount of flexibility in this area. Probably not as a 'houseparent' though, mainly because as a landworker there you can't feasibly run a household too.

However, there was a sense of a 'core group' - there were various committees who made decisions about new houseparents, moving DD people from one house to another (due to personality clashes, etc). There was some sense of insider/outsider but not really in day-to-day stuff. Moreso in the bigger decisions. While the family I described above was probably on some committees, I doubt they would have had a lot of influence if they were dissenting on a decision.

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ira
5) If they in fact would have allowed you to stay on , do you suppose that would have required you to join the Anthroposophical movement?

No, as demonstrated by the example above.

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ira
I realize we're speaking of two different Intentional Communities here. The one you worked at was somewhat smaller than the one I'm asking about. I'm guessing the one you describe was : Plowshare Farm. [I might be wrong though]

Actually, no, not Plowshare. The one I lived at was a Camphill farm - it was a year-round longterm community for DD adults. Many of them lived there for 20 years or more. It had about 12 acres of veggies to feed the community as well as a CSA available to the public, and a rather large dairy production as well. About 130 residents.


WOW, I can't believe how much I have written! It's funny, I haven't talked about this much in years, especially since I have learned the creepy truth about Steiner. It's really hard to reconcile those things.

I guess my bottom line, now that I am thinking this through, is that I don't think this is a cult, because they are very welcoming to non-anthroposophists, they have a solid, nonprofit foundation with a board of directors etc. And even for the insiders, there is a fair amount of disagreement even on major principles and interpretations, a variety of levels of 'devoutness', etc. I remember a guest lecture at the community center by a prominent anthroposophist called something like "Jesus is Buddha" that caused quite an uproar because some thought it made perfect sense and others thought it was the ultimate sacrilege.

However, I think there is definitely an elitism inherent in the philosophy, members of the 'society' being in the upper levels of the social hierarchy, exclusive events for members only (certain lectures etc were for card-carrying members only although this was rare).

And my biggest beef with it is what was explained at the link in my earlier post, the details of Steiner's beliefs as far as race and ethnicity. Despite the good that some of these manifestations of Steiner's philosophy may do, this is far overwhelmed by the root beliefs of his philosophy, imo. Thinking back, this was the 'whitest' place I have ever lived. People of color were nowhere to be found. I remember there was occasionally discussion about this, how to get more diversity in the short-term co-worker population as far as race, ethnicity and nationality. But no one ever seemed to look real deeply as to why this was the case. I am starting to understand why.

For me the problem is a [b:aec5249e42]moral[/b:aec5249e42] one, and I think one has to seriously take that into consideration if they are thinking about living in such a community, or sending a family member there. I won't go on and on about this because I don't want to start getting preachy but I do want to emphasize this.

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Fishbulb
Kudos back atcha, eggplant. This link you provided is something else.

I knew Waldorf schools are alternative but I had NO IDEA they were so far off the radar.

I wonder if the curriculum differs according to the provincial or state standards. Their practise of not allowing a child to enter first grade until they have lost their baby teeth wouldn't fly around here; kids need to be in a certain grade at a certain age unless there are health or learning problems.

That must be some kind of typo also; most people don't lose all their baby teeth until they're 12 or so. They start losing them around age 6. (Due to some weird genetics I actually still have baby teeth. My adult son has the same issue. I'd hate to think we'd be repeating kindergarten for the umpteenth time...)

VERY interesting info about Steiner's support of the Nazi regime. Infuriating, but interesting.

I have bookmarked that link to forward to people who may want to put their kids in a Waldorf school. Parents talk about potential schools for their tots and when this comes up I'll be sure to direct them to that site.

Thanks for your insight and the link!

Yeah, I had never heard about the teeth thing until I read that article. I can't vouch for the accuracy. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't enforce that..er...guideline anymore.

And I fully agree, anyone thinking of sending their kid to a Waldorf School should know the reality behind Steiner's philosophy, not just the whitewashed for-public-consumption version, so they can make an honest choice..

Steiner is one of the New Age teachers that purports to have direct access to other worlds, as in, astral sight. Like Swedenborg and some Theosophists like Leadbeater, he has written a book describing what takes place on other worlds. I am not sure if he goes into as much details as the others about this. A lot of the channeling material of the last fifty years also has this kind of thing, and I'm sure a lot of it is contradictory. This leads me to believe it is all hallucinatory material. That isn't to say I myself am an atheist, do not believe in life after death, or angels. I just don't believe it when human beings say that they have direct access because I myself practiced much meditation and also thought I saw into those realms, but through having a slightly more scientific background than most of them (which wasn't even much), I was able to logically determine that what I was experiencing was hallucination. I wrote about this in the book "The Experience of Hallucinations in Religious Practice" to help steer others away from the claims of those who purport to have direct access to other worlds. Such people can be very abusive and delusive.

I am puzzled by this comment from "Eggplant" re: Rudolph Steiner

[b:26c888f775]I have learned that his personal history was commonly misrepresented by anthroposophists, specifically in regard to the Nazis and why he had to leave Germany under Hitler's regime. I always had the impression that it was because he was a dissenter but it isn't that simple. [/b:26c888f775]

Rudolph Steiner [b:26c888f775]died [/b:26c888f775]in [b:26c888f775]1925[/b:26c888f775] !

My son attended a Waldorf School from aged 4 to 7 (kindergarten).In many ways it was very lovely.I was told that the kindergarten years are the most important in Steiner Education.There were no books in the kindergarten as they followed the "Reading when the milk teeth [b:26c888f775]start [/b:26c888f775]
to fall out philosophy."(so it really doesn't make any difference if the LAST milk teeth are lost many years later ).

I was worried that my son may never learn to read but was assured he would learn very quickly at the right time. I didn't totally believe this at the time BUT they were proved absolutely right.

At seven years my son left and when to an ordinary state school where they were concerned to see he couldn't read or write but in just a few months he was effortlessly reading and overtook the others in his class who had been trying since age four. After that he was always way above the official reading age and has just taken his English GCSE a year
early having got distinction for his course work.

I have honestly never pushed him or even helped him very much as he is diffident and independent by nature. He has a rather naive and kind/ sensitive way about him which I suspect is related to those two and a half rather idyllic and other-worldly years he spent in that school.

I guess the sometimes cruel rough and tumble of education at British State School has prepared him better for the unforgiving REAL world though.

Steiner education does not suit every child though. My son was diagnosed as severely dyspraxic with an autistic spectrum disorder (Aspergers Syndrome) so he systematically failed at all the practical tasks they focused on at the Waldorf School (threading beads,chopping up vegetables,making bread, craft work etc) and he became frustrated and sometimes angry.They discouraged watching TV or using a computer. It was all rather dogmatic and inflexible.

In later years when my son was bullied at mainstream school I would ask him if he would like to return to the Waldorf........"NO!" he would say adamantly " It's too religious"........ He preferred the bullying at state school (sometimes horrendous) to the Waldorf ritual ,slightly sickly sweetness and dogma.

[b:26c888f775]I think I would have liked a Waldorf Education though and there is much to be appreciated about some of the methodology. [/b:26c888f775]

However ,their provision for and understanding of high functioning "Special Needs" children like my son was IMO very poor.

My son is now a computer Geek and has passed one Information Tech. GCSE (again a year early) with distinction...he takes another (he is doing a "double") next year.

There was a separate farm,accomodation and school for very special needs young adults ( Downs Syndrome etc) on the same land.That seemed to work very well.

I work for an organization that is formed under Rudolph steiner philosophies. We have three branchs nationwide, and our branch is possibly the least anthroposophiical of the three. We have grace at meal times and begin and end the day with with a circle

However like I said, we are the least anthroposophical of the three.

His teachings would definately fall under the new age

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Lexy
I am puzzled by this comment from "Eggplant" re: Rudolph Steiner

[b:72820b5e62]I have learned that his personal history was commonly misrepresented by anthroposophists, specifically in regard to the Nazis and why he had to leave Germany under Hitler's regime. I always had the impression that it was because he was a dissenter but it isn't that simple. [/b:72820b5e62]

Rudolph Steiner [b:72820b5e62]died [/b:72820b5e62]in [b:72820b5e62]1925[/b:72820b5e62] !

Mea culpa - it's been awhile since I have read about this, and I apologize for my error. It was during WWI that Steiner himself left Germany, and it was his followers that left under the Nazis. I had been under the impresion that it was because of their opposition to the regime, their dissent, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Here's an excerpt to an article that seems to be well cited. The link to the article is after the quote:

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Immediately after the NSDAP attained state power in early 1933, the leaders of organized anthroposophy took the initiative in extending their support to the new government. In June of that year a Danish newspaper asked Günther Wachsmuth, Secretary of the International Anthroposophic Society in Switzerland, about anthroposophy's attitude toward the Nazi regime. He replied, "We can't complain. We've been treated with the utmost consideration and have complete freedom to promote our doctrine." Speaking for anthroposophists generally, Wachsmuth went on to express his "sympathy" and "admiration" for National Socialism.[34]

Wachsmuth, one of three top officers at anthroposophy's world headquarters in Dornach, was hardly alone among Steiner's followers in his vocal support for the Hitler dictatorship. The homeopathic physician Hans Rascher, for example, proudly proclaimed himself "just as much an anthroposophist as a National Socialist."[35] Steiner's widow herself, Marie Steiner, refused even after the war to distance herself from Hitler. In 1934 the German Anthroposophic Society sent Hitler an official letter pointing out anthroposophy's compatibility with National Socialist values and emphasizing Steiner's "Aryan origins" and his pro-German activism.

At the time Wachsmuth gave his interview, thousands of socialists, communists, anarchists, union members, and other dissidents had been thrown into concentration camps, and independent political life in Germany had been obliterated. But for years most anthroposophists suffered no harassment; they were accepted into the compulsory Nazi cultural associations and continued to pursue their activities. The exception, of course, was Jewish members of anthroposophist organizations. They were forced, under pressure from the state, to leave these institutions. There is no record of their gentile anthroposophist comrades protesting this "racial" exclusion, much less putting up any internal resistance to it. In fact some anthroposophists, like the law professor Ernst von Hippel, enthusiastically endorsed the expulsion of Jews from German universities.

Despite this extensive public support by anthroposophists for the nazification of Germany, a power struggle was going on within the byzantine apparatus of the Nazi state over whether to ban anthroposophy or co-opt the movement and its institutions. This struggle was primarily conducted between Rudolf Hess, Hitler's personal representative and a practicing anthroposophist in his own right, and Heinrich Himmler, chief of the SS and devotee of the esoteric and occult who viewed anthroposophy as ideological and organizational competition to his own pseudo-religion of Nazi paganism. It was not until November 1935, long after most other independent cultural institutions had been destroyed, that the German Anthroposophic Society was dissolved on Himmler's orders.

[www.waldorfcritics.org]

I highly recommend reading the whole article. It puts his 'master race'-oriented viewpoint in perspective imo.