The other day (on the 16th) I reported my initial impressions of DISC here:

[board.culteducation.com]

Today I was out there volunteering and got to speak privately with the pastor for a bit. Earlier I'd emailed her asking about the ministry's political structure, board, budget, finances, donations, all that stuff. The Big Three criteria by which a healthy, non-abusive or non-controlling church can be recognized from once that is an unhealthy, abusive, and overly controlling one: political transparency, financial transparency, and educational requirements for leaders. I her asked in a professional, respectful, however direct manner after explaining my bad experience with another, better known Dallas "ministry". I asked her, surely you must know where I am coming from?

In fact, here is a copy of the email I sent her; I sent it last night:
[b:a57c2fd401]
Hi Karen. I'll tell you, I have been involved (in the employ of) a psychologically and spiritually abusive ministry/"cult" in the past (Trinity Foundation) and have taken about a year to get back into community building/ministry activity ever since. It was a bad experience but God brought me out of it and I want to get involved in a church family again now. Like, REALLY involved, not just Sunday morning and Wednesday night or something, you know?
So, there some things I like to "check out" before I get very involved with any church now; it makes me comfortable to ask about certain details. Not that I am at all coming out of an accusatory or suspicious spirit, just asking about certain things for my peace of mind:

1) Does DISC have any kind of constitution or bylaws by which it operates, or some kind of charter, and if so, may I have a copy of it? Is there a board of directors or otherwise some type of governing body, and if so who are they?

2) What is DISC's operating budget, what are the financial reports, donations, etc.? Do you as the Pastor have a discretionary fund at your disposal? What is in it?

3) What are your educational credentials? What are the staff's?

Like I said *****, it's not that I am accusing you of anything or something like that; not at all. It's just that I have been burned before by a pseudo-Christian cult and now that I am out, and ready to get back into the "church world", try and exercise discernment in what I involve myself in. I'm sure you understand. It's just that I know what to look for now.

Spiritual abuse is every bit as real and damaging as physical or sexual abuse or any kind of destructive relationship. That's my ministry; I want to get into cult-awareness/spiritual abuse counseling.

See you soon,

B[/b:a57c2fd401]

When we spoke in person she told me that she'd never been asked those kinds of questions by a volunteer/visitor before and that frankly that that stuff was not my business for her to discuss with me. I told her that in fact it [b:a57c2fd401]is[/b:a57c2fd401] my business if I plan on contributing and further explained that as a non-profit organization all that kind of info must be publicly available anyway, so I [b:a57c2fd401]do[/b:a57c2fd401] have the right to ask. She told me that everything I need to know is on the website and when I asked about a charter, whether DISC is incorporated in the State of Texas, what's the budget, etc., she told me to read the website and that any information other than what is there is none of my business. To me, she seemed a bit indignant that I'd asked, but said that she wasn't [i:a57c2fd401]offended[/i:a57c2fd401] and made it clear that such things were not my business.

www.kdministries.org

[www.dallasinternationalstreetchurch.org]

Notice how on the two sites the boards are listed as two different sets of people.

Also, in the course of the meeting, she told me a bit about her background and how she was educated and ordained through the Assemblies of God. But, she explained, that she'd left denominational Christianity to form DISC 10 years ago and that she didn't want to align DISC with one denomination or another because "most denominations are all about the money".

I told her of the Biblical mandate to expose and speak out about evil (Eph. 5:11), especially evil in The Church, she told me that I had a point but that rather than trying to investigate and so be sure that I was not involved in another abusive situation, I should pray and "seek the Lord" and also that one will always find error in people, but never in God.

A few big red flags waving to me here. I have done several hours of volunteer work for them this week checking them out. What do you all say? Feedback please?

[www.dallasinternationalstreetchurch.org]

Huh. If you click on that second link for DISC (above) you're directed to the first one. But here's where I got that info about the board as of '05:

[www.dallasinternationalstreetchurch.org]

The link to the present board is at kdministries.org

[b:d27d081171]Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

2Cr 8:21 Providing for honest things, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of men. [/b:d27d081171]

Aren't these the Scriptures that you mentioned last night, C47?

Run for your life! No transparency is no good. She should be proud to show all how above board and straight her group is. I would feel better too if this group were aligned with a reputable denomination or is she queen of this ministry?
cultaware

I agree with Cultaware. There are too many red flags here.

One of the problems with Ole and his group is that they are not connected to a denomination. While it is true that there are some problems in the various denominations, the accountability they provide is a necessity. It is problematic for people to go off on their own and try to be lone rangers, like Ole. Personally, I have decided to avoid involvement in any group or church that is isolated and disconnected in this way.

If you search Guidestar.org, the last 990 that DISC has made publicly available is from 1998. Not a good sign.

Scant information from taxexemptworld.com, too. Guidestar is better and it's free. Taxexemptworld has them listed as being a tax-exempt since 1972. How is this possible? The Observer said that DISc has been operating since '98.

I smell something fishy. What do you all reckon would happen if I were to go down to DISC again and asked for a more recent 990? Probably I'd get kicked out of the place.

I'll email Karen again and ask her to fax or email me one.

Do you all think I ought to make her aware of the existence of this discussion, in the interest of fairness?

Actually, I just sent Karen this email, just now. Her response will me interesting.

[b:e0efef2c84]The most recent 990 for kdministries that is listed in Guidestar.org is from 1998.

Can you please provide me with a more current 990 than what is available online?

This is public information that kdministries, as a 501-c(3) organization, must provide to anyone who asks for it.

And as a person who is interested in potentially contributing to the DISC, I have every right to ask. And as a tax-exempt, faith-based organization it would be in your interests to hold to the highest standards of accountability and transparency.

Also, can you provide me with a copy of your charter, or constitution and bylaws, in which the process for electing/selecting board leadership is outlined? How is the board elected? Is there some democratic process of ministry government by which the board is elected? If not, how is the board selected?

Do you have a discretionary fund at your disposal?

You should be proud to show all how above board and straight your group is.

As a 501-c(3) organization, you must make a current 990 publicly available. So these are things I look at and consider (transparency, accountability) when determining whether a particular ministry or organization is worthy of mine and my community's time and effort.

In short, these are things have the right to ask you, and these things are my business if I want to work with your ministry. A lack of accountability and transparency, especially when required by law, is hardly a good way to represent yourself or DISC.

Thanks for your time.

B
[/b:e0efef2c84]

OK, I went ahead anyway and invited her to participate here. We'll see.

Maybe there is some reasonable explanation as to why she won't let the info I asked about be made public.

Hey Zeus,

I agree with Cultaware and Counselor47. You know that saying, "Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me." We've all been there and can see those BIG RED FLAGS waving like crazy. Oh course, this person is going to try to make you feel like there is something wrong with you (distrustful spirit, rebellious or whatever), but there are too many healthy churches to risk getting burned again.

Still Seeking.

By the way, Trinity Foundation has its public financial documents on that Guidestar too. Doesn't mean anything. Ask the folks at Enron.