Am I just lizard food?
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 28, 2006 11:57PM
Here is Uri Geller being exposed by Johnny Carson (who was a magician and knows how the tricks are done) on the Tonight Show.
[www.youtube.com]
Uri Geller has lost all of the nuisance lawsuits he brought forward. [skepdic.com]
[www.youtube.com]
Uri Geller has lost all of the nuisance lawsuits he brought forward. [skepdic.com]
Am I just lizard food?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: November 28, 2006 11:59PM
cultreporter:
OK.
IMO--Icke appears to be a bizarre character with essentially crackpot ideas and unproven conspiracy theories, but he is savvy at marketing and making money.
There is no information to date that I am aware of, which would categorize Icke as a "cult leader," though he seems to have what could be seen as a "cult following," composed of customers that buy his books and attend his seminars etc.
OK.
IMO--Icke appears to be a bizarre character with essentially crackpot ideas and unproven conspiracy theories, but he is savvy at marketing and making money.
There is no information to date that I am aware of, which would categorize Icke as a "cult leader," though he seems to have what could be seen as a "cult following," composed of customers that buy his books and attend his seminars etc.
Am I just lizard food?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: November 29, 2006 12:02AM
Anticult:
Great links on Geller.
But this thread should stay focused on Icke.
Great links on Geller.
But this thread should stay focused on Icke.
Am I just lizard food?
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 29, 2006 01:08AM
entry on David Icke in...
An Encyclopedia of Claims, Frauds, and Hoaxes of the Occult and Supernatural by James Randi.
[www.randi.org]
David Icke also appears to be involved in anti-Semitic ideas.
An Encyclopedia of Claims, Frauds, and Hoaxes of the Occult and Supernatural by James Randi.
[www.randi.org]
David Icke also appears to be involved in anti-Semitic ideas.
Quote
David Icke And The Politics Of Madness, Where The New Age Meets The Third Reich by Will Offley, February 29, 2000
[www.publiceye.org]
"I strongly believe that a small Jewish clique which has contempt for the mass of Jewish people worked with non-Jews to create the First World War, the Russian Revolution, and the Second World War....They then dominated the Versailles Peace Conference and created the circumstances which made the Second World War inevitable. They financed Hitler to power in 1933 and made the funds available for his rearmament."2
2. David Icke, "...and the truth shall set you free", Bridge of Love Press, Cambridge, September 1995, p.130.
...
Over the last year Icke's writings have become so paranoid and so extreme that many are probably inclined to dismiss him as posing any sort of threat, or requiring a response. Icke is now arguing in all seriousness that the Illuminati plot to take over the world is actually being carried out by a race of extraterrestrial reptiles in human form. They are described, literally, as being child-sacrificing, blood-drinking Satan-worshippers capable of changing their shape, whose ranks include George Bush, Bill and Hilary Clinton, Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mum, Bob Hope and Kris Kristofferson, among others.10
...
David Icke is not alone. He is a small industry in a large and lucrative market of often well-to do New Age boomers. He has several web sites, an e-magazine, his own publishing house, and at least 9 books and 4 videotapes to his credit. He is constantly on the road, touring North America, Europe, Australia, South Africa, the Pyramids, and elsewhere. In the last five years he has spoken in Vancouver as many times, and across Canada he can turn out substantial audiences. His organizers claim he had 1,000 people out to hear him at his last gig in Vancouver, and he hopes to fill the Vogue Theatre on March 19. It's a large milieu that can afford the hefty prices Icke charges - up to $67 to attend a lecture, forty to fifty dollars for videotapes - and that generates a sizeable income for Icke and his message of conspiracism, fear and hate.
To organize all this, Icke has developed an international network of people who work with him and for him. They book the dates, churn out the posters and press releases, do the advance work, pick him up at the airport, get him to the hotel, introduce him, and get him back to his flight on time. They also show clearly why David Icke is a dangerous man, because they underscore his politics in an unmistakable way.
Icke is undeniably a flake, and a world-class flake, but his danger comes from his alliances as well as his politics. And it's the far right who handle this man, who package and promote and present his message across Canada and around the world.
Am I just lizard food?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: November 29, 2006 01:50AM
Yes.
It's fair to say the Icke is an anti-Semite with various anti-Semetic conpiracy theories.
It's fair to say the Icke is an anti-Semite with various anti-Semetic conpiracy theories.
Am I just lizard food?
Posted by:
drivingthecar
()
Date: November 29, 2006 01:52AM
Quote
The Anticult
What is most likely happening when people think they are experiencing "psychic" moments, is they are falling prey to the Confirmation Bias [skepdic.com]
Right. That's why, a week before the tsumani of 2004, I had recurring nightmares of being engulfed by tidal waves for days. Vivid, horrible dreams of running from large waves coming in and threatening to engulf me. Dreams full of terror. Dreams that I did not have before or since.
Once I dreamt a ferry crashed into a pier. That is specific and weird enough you notice it and remember it. How often does this happen? Never. A few days later, a ferry crashed into a pier in NYC. It was all over the news. I about fell over when I saw the news report.
Quote
The Anticult
The only way to try and sort that out would be by engaging in very careful tests, using trained independent observers.
Bullcrap. You can never carefully test that sort of precognition using trained independent observers. I have major precognitive dreams like that maybe once per year at most if I am lucky.
I've known things about friends because of stuff I've dreamed about them. Things I could not have known otherwise (FACTS, not impressions).
You can try to explain that away with some sort of pseudo-scientific sounding mumbo jumbo called "confirmation bias," but anyone who has experienced it knows that is true and not a trick of the mind.
The only way I will ever convince you is if you experience these things yourself. You could, if you opened your mind to it, since everyone is intuitive by nature.
People like you, however, suffer from a [b:001b738f1e]reverse confirmation bias[/b:001b738f1e]. When something does happen to support the case for intuition or paranormal, you look around for any "scientific" explanation you can find for it, and talk it away.
The Skepdic, BTW, has a lot of misleading and downright false information about various holistic remedies. The guy doesn't even understand half of what he critiques.
As for Randi - magicians, I hear, are the worse skeptics because they actively trick people and assume everyone else is doing the same.
For those of you who think Randi is just some humble guy who is not making money off of his campaign against the paranormal - think again. How much do you think he charges for a speaking engagement? How much money is he making off his books and other products? How on earth does he have a million dollars to spend on a paranormal challenge in the first place?
If David Icke is a huckster, then Randi is a huckster on the opposite side playing off of the skeptic's market. What's ironic is that Randi is MAKING A LIVING off the very things he claims he despises.
Where would that man be without UFOs and the paranormal to debunk? He'd be a has-been magician, that's what.
Am I just lizard food?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: November 29, 2006 02:05AM
drivingthecar:
Your last post here is close to flaming and largely off topic.
Please stay focused on the thread topic.
The topic here is David Icke, not James Randi.
Randi has been around a long time and more than demonstrated through his dogged response to harassment lawsuits, his commitment.
He isn't about money and is one of the top debunkers in the country.
Financially Randi could have easily given up when Geller sued, packed up and sailed away with the $500,000 he received from the MacArthur Foundation.
Instead, he went through years of litigation, which was ultimately dismissed in his favor.
If you want to start a thread about Randi you may.
But let's stay with David Icke here.
Your last post here is close to flaming and largely off topic.
Please stay focused on the thread topic.
The topic here is David Icke, not James Randi.
Randi has been around a long time and more than demonstrated through his dogged response to harassment lawsuits, his commitment.
He isn't about money and is one of the top debunkers in the country.
Financially Randi could have easily given up when Geller sued, packed up and sailed away with the $500,000 he received from the MacArthur Foundation.
Instead, he went through years of litigation, which was ultimately dismissed in his favor.
If you want to start a thread about Randi you may.
But let's stay with David Icke here.
Am I just lizard food?
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 29, 2006 02:22AM
Actually, "precognition" in terms of dreams is an ideal example of the Confirmation Bias...we notice things that happen in the external world, that we may have dreamt about, and don't notice things that don't happen.
We all have thousands of dreams, so we remember the hits, and not the misses.
[skepdic.com]
[skepdic.com]
It would actually be quite simple to prove.
A person would need to find an independant neutral professional they could submit their sealed Precognitions to. Then these could be reviewed openly a various intervals by objective people publically.
Of course one can't claim general concepts like droughts, wars, famine, floods, as these happen all the time. They would have to be more specific and precise, and give specific details. After all, if its a precognition, it should be VERY precise and not general.
Also, if a person makes hundreds of predictions, one or two "hits" could just be chance.
If I thought I had precognitive dreams of natural disasters, I would have it tested at a university.
This has been very interesting, as it does show that 'regular folks', who have no commercial interest, do sincerely believe in things along the lines of David Icke.
Lastly, I used to believe most "psychic" claims, and wanted to do that research for a living, and in pursuing it full-time for a number of years, finally realized there was no evidence that it exists whatsoever. So I have spent (wasted?) years of my life on this subject, and thousands of hours of research.
Its clearly mainly self-deception.
[skepdic.com]
Maybe some evidence will turn up someday...but I am aware of zero objective evidence to back up the claims at this time.
We all have thousands of dreams, so we remember the hits, and not the misses.
[skepdic.com]
[skepdic.com]
It would actually be quite simple to prove.
A person would need to find an independant neutral professional they could submit their sealed Precognitions to. Then these could be reviewed openly a various intervals by objective people publically.
Of course one can't claim general concepts like droughts, wars, famine, floods, as these happen all the time. They would have to be more specific and precise, and give specific details. After all, if its a precognition, it should be VERY precise and not general.
Also, if a person makes hundreds of predictions, one or two "hits" could just be chance.
If I thought I had precognitive dreams of natural disasters, I would have it tested at a university.
This has been very interesting, as it does show that 'regular folks', who have no commercial interest, do sincerely believe in things along the lines of David Icke.
Lastly, I used to believe most "psychic" claims, and wanted to do that research for a living, and in pursuing it full-time for a number of years, finally realized there was no evidence that it exists whatsoever. So I have spent (wasted?) years of my life on this subject, and thousands of hours of research.
Its clearly mainly self-deception.
[skepdic.com]
Maybe some evidence will turn up someday...but I am aware of zero objective evidence to back up the claims at this time.
Am I just lizard food?
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 29, 2006 02:30AM
It just occurred to me that David Icke's "idea" that the people in power are "Lizard People" and are related somehow to some type of "Jewish Conspiracy" to rule the world...reminds one of those horrible racist cartoons where Jews and other ethnic groups were drawn to look like demons, with horns, and all the rest of it. This was done to dehumanize humans.
So all the David Icke craziness aside, its a disturbing practice to start "labelling" other human's as being "inhuman", especially when its linked to global conspiracies.
No wonder some of the Right Wing promoters appear to promote David Icke.
Perhaps someone will look into this more carefully. I THINK in recent years David Icke has tried to back away from some of the anti-Semetic stuff, although I am not sure about that.
So all the David Icke craziness aside, its a disturbing practice to start "labelling" other human's as being "inhuman", especially when its linked to global conspiracies.
No wonder some of the Right Wing promoters appear to promote David Icke.
Perhaps someone will look into this more carefully. I THINK in recent years David Icke has tried to back away from some of the anti-Semetic stuff, although I am not sure about that.
Quote
rrmoderator
Yes.
It's fair to say the Icke is an anti-Semite with various anti-Semetic conpiracy theories.
Am I just lizard food?
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: November 29, 2006 02:32AM
Honestly Anticult this whole thread had been successfully derailed in order to promote James Randi. Here you post yet another link followed by information that I have already posted.
rrmoderator knows the score and he says that there is no cult.
There is nothing to sugguest that Icke promises people anything in exchange for their donation for him. He does not have people bowing down and making offerrings to him or eating his toenails like they are a holy sacrement. He hasn't handed down four regulations or ten commandments. There is no one coming forward and saying they were hurt or had their lives ruined by David Icke.
Oprah with all her viewers that practically worship her and read the books she reccomends and donate money to where she says to donate money is equally worthy of being branded a cult leader as David Icke.
What about Michael Moore - he has made millions off conspiracy - his theories are not proven he sells books and has asked for donations - millions of people have watched him and visit his website and to the best of my knowledge no one has ever sugguested that he is a cult leader. Too mainstream I supposse.
There is no way of gauging what people believe about Icke. Science fiction is a popular genre, perhaps it is entertainment and perhaps it is just idle curiosity. In my opinion it is fun to think "what if" and it is such thinking that promotes innovation and the exposure of genuine conspiracies. Just because one enjoys hearing other people's ideas does not make them crazy or put them at risk of anything.
Cult awareness is too important and has the potential to help too many people to be bothered to provide any grounds for criticism by attacking anyone who is 'different' or 'unconventional' that comes along. It is that approach, which is not how Rick Ross goes about cult awareness that has those with the best intentions vilified as being fanatical proponents of an anti-belief society.
People will believe in whatever they want to believe in and whatever they find helps them live another day and hopefully for them puts a smile on their face once in a while. This much is inevitable. I think anyone with time and thought on the subject of cults would better spend it focussing ont those that are actually confirmed as cults and ruining people's lives, of which there is no shortage here.
rrmoderator knows the score and he says that there is no cult.
There is nothing to sugguest that Icke promises people anything in exchange for their donation for him. He does not have people bowing down and making offerrings to him or eating his toenails like they are a holy sacrement. He hasn't handed down four regulations or ten commandments. There is no one coming forward and saying they were hurt or had their lives ruined by David Icke.
Oprah with all her viewers that practically worship her and read the books she reccomends and donate money to where she says to donate money is equally worthy of being branded a cult leader as David Icke.
What about Michael Moore - he has made millions off conspiracy - his theories are not proven he sells books and has asked for donations - millions of people have watched him and visit his website and to the best of my knowledge no one has ever sugguested that he is a cult leader. Too mainstream I supposse.
There is no way of gauging what people believe about Icke. Science fiction is a popular genre, perhaps it is entertainment and perhaps it is just idle curiosity. In my opinion it is fun to think "what if" and it is such thinking that promotes innovation and the exposure of genuine conspiracies. Just because one enjoys hearing other people's ideas does not make them crazy or put them at risk of anything.
Cult awareness is too important and has the potential to help too many people to be bothered to provide any grounds for criticism by attacking anyone who is 'different' or 'unconventional' that comes along. It is that approach, which is not how Rick Ross goes about cult awareness that has those with the best intentions vilified as being fanatical proponents of an anti-belief society.
People will believe in whatever they want to believe in and whatever they find helps them live another day and hopefully for them puts a smile on their face once in a while. This much is inevitable. I think anyone with time and thought on the subject of cults would better spend it focussing ont those that are actually confirmed as cults and ruining people's lives, of which there is no shortage here.
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