Quote
zeuszor
aq though. Not even at a range. So no, I am most definitely not "anti-gun". I am all about responsible firearm ownership. In fact, I believe it's a patriotic duty to know how to use them. Again, one day we may have to do our patriotoc duty and use them against our own government and its agents.

Amen.

[/quote]
What university did you attend while you were in the military?[/quote]

I attended a state school in Illinois.[/quote]

It would appear that your education in the military was at a civilian university. As such, a civilian school provided the education, not the military.[/quote]

Not True, the college credits were from a military institute (Defense Language Institute) and also PE Credits from Basic Training.

The university recognized the coursework and experience as relevant for college credit.

Quote
zeuszor
My M16A2 rifle was semi-auto. You do not know your weapons, nor were you in the military. This is obvious.

For what it's worth.

[usmilitary.about.com]

But I still think the M14 ( [hunting.about.com] ) is a better weapon, the 7.62 round gives it much more whack power on your target, tho fully auto is a bit crazy.

Let's stick to the topic and talk about the parallel between cult indoctrination and military indoctrination. The dynamic is pretty much the same. In both, they condition the individual to obey the leader (or COC) without question nor hesitation. The whole point of BCT and AIT (besides the physical training, of course; and by the way I kinda miss doing vigorous group PT. So much more motivating. I also miss the real camaraderie that develops between the guys is the B's and all that. Good times. I'm glad it's over, but I'll have certain good memories for the rest of my life...) is to disorient you completely from your civilian orientation and re-orient you to a military orientation. They attempt to reshape your personality and bulls**t you into believing that they are going to build a "better you". Thet break you down and put you back together their way. In reality, though, the end result is that they HAVE reshaped your personality (and I must admit I am much more secure in myself and have gained much confidence through the military experience than probably would have gained otherwise. Again, it was not an altogether negative experience.), but instill as well in the recruit a dependance (in every sense of the word) upon the military culture and system of things. They have a unique language and jargon that outsiders cannot understand. They try and make you afraid to leave the military and try to make you think that you cannot make it in the civilian world. The Army's mission is to develop soldiers, not to train you on how to be a civilian again. No wonder so many guys spiral out of control after leaving the military, especially after seeing combat. In conveninient, loose terms, they try to brainwash you until you have no civilian frame of reference anymore and you gradually become more and more institutionalized. Then they dangle a paltry $10,000 (10 g's for four more years of your life? You'd make better money slinging burgers for Mickey D's, and you wouldn't have to rick your life. They offer 10K to some 20 year old kid that barely has any hair on his nuts and he think's he's in the money. Sorry, buddy, but they own you now) carrot on a stick in order to get you to reenlist. It's all about making you dependant on the system, JUST LIKE CULTS DO. If they wanted you to have an opinion of your own, thay'd have issued you one. So, I'M the one with the "personality disorder"? Look, I went to BCT when I was 29 years old. I was older, wiser, and frankly much smarter than the kids I was training with. I could see through that manipulation in an instant. You just say, "YES DRILL SERGEANT!" and drive on. It's not really that hard, like Forrest Gump said. Make your bed real neat and all that. But gradually, the system will try and make you think that this is the only environment in which you can survive. Most see through that bulls**t, and a lot don't. I'll wear their "personality disorder" label like the Medal of Honor.

And as far as Dr. Singer's analysis of the Marine recruit's indoctrination and all that: with respect, it is clear that she very much overestimates the integrity of military personnel, particularly the integrity of those in positions of leadership. It's the ultimate "good ole boy" system. I don't feel like refuting her analysis point-by-point right now as I'm tired of all this typing but let me say that that sh*t is laughable. She comes across like some dry academic type who...well, it's clear she's never been closely involved with the REAL military. In short, on this one, she does not know what she's talking about. And I do know her reputation and respect her work in her field.

Then again though, I was in the Army, not the Marine Corps. Maybe Jarhead culture is different, and it probably is. The Army is DEFINITELY cultish in it's training and indoctrination (TRADOC) techniques.

I was involved in a pentecostal group which has chruches called 'the Potters House, The Door, Victory Chapel' for about ten years and they ran {and still do run} what are called 'boot camps' for children. I personally knew a sergent in the U.S military police who was based in England and had a senior role in the church boot camp.

The whole thing was based on a military regime {albeit watered down} the moment the kids got off the bus he was there yelling at them at the top of his voice and demanding that they stand to attention. Apparently many of them think it's a joke for the first 10 seconds until he gets right in their faces. The idea is to give them a shock to the system and to 'break them'. The church says that the results are wonderful because they turn rebellious kids into obedient disciples the church can use in the space of a week.

There are no weapons used but there is a strong combative and competative element to all of this. I've been asking for more information from ex members of the group to collect information. I'm not sure what I can do about it but this whole boot camp thing sounds dangerous. It seems to me to be about trying to exert an unhealthy control over childrens lives. The sergent told me that they have regular daily meeting s and have to keep a close eye on the children because their is a risk of pushing them over the edge.

The most recent U.K boot camp has just finished. I've noticed that among all the hyped up reports of 'how powerful it was' there is the ignoring of the fact that once these children are out of that environment for a long enough period they can sometimes swing to the other extreme and become very rebellious. It's as if they are trying to react against how they were treated. I can understand the logic of such tactics when training full grown men for combat in life threatening situations but training children to obey their leaders in the church? This surely has no place in a religious institution.
I would appreciate any information anyone has on this group and it's activities regarding the boot camps or if you've heard of other religious groups using the same methods then I would be interested in hearing from you.

regards...naboth675

I have a website that is reporting on the abusive practices of this particular religious group. There is a forum if you ahve any comments that you think would be helpful. Alternatively just repond to this post here and I will read it soon.

[www.habakkuk2-4.com]

Here's a good one. So true. This man knows what he's talking about.

[www.rikthib.com]

Have you read this?

[www.factnet.org]

[www.sptimes.com]

I don't know about that particular Christian organisation, but some young people are said to have suffered due to medical neglect or beatings at these boot camps.

When dealing with asthmatics, the organisers thought they were acting up, didn't let them have their inhalers, and they had real asthma attacks.

As an asthmatic, the thought of that is particularly evil to me!