"Holding on to" a "Jewish background." But as what?

Wikipedia is hardly a reliable source. See its disclaimers.

Also see [www.culteducation.com]

"Jewsfaq.com"?

Hardly a definitive source.

There is no disagreement about who a Jew is not, as agreed upon by Jewish denominations, which are definitively the historical sources regarding such issues, not assorted Web sites.

All branches of Judaism (e.g. Orthodox, Conservative, Reform and Reconstructionist) agree that someone who has converted to an outside relgious belief system is no longer Jewish without qualification.

This has also been upheld by the Israeli courts, which ruled a convert could not immigrate as a "Jew" to Israel under the "right/law of return."

An atheist would also be an "apostate Jew."

There is no problem factually with so-called "Jews for Jesus" saying they are apostate Jews for Jesus. This would not be misleading.

But they don't.

They wish to otherwise mislead the public and attempt to redefine the meaning of Jews, Judaism and its practices per their own distinct theological perspective.

And that perspective is essentially evangelical Baptist theology, which is the background and ordination of the organization's founder.

"Jews for Jesus" is after all a member of the Evangelical Coucil for Financial Accountability, which is hardly a Jewish institution, but places the group within the context of its actual religious identity.

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rrmoderator
"Jews for Jesus" is after all a member of the Evangelical Coucil for Financial Accountability, which is hardly a Jewish institution, but places the group within the context of its actual religious identity.

For a lot of people to be Jewish is a description of their parentage/ culture/ ethnicity rather than a religious matter though. Say I know a Jewish girl by the name Sophie Rosenbaum or other Jewish name, she is still Jewish no matter what her spiritual persuasion, as she comes from a Jewish family.

That's how it is in the UK anyway, many people of Jewish origin don't practice the religious at all but they are still Jewish.

Love
Kath

Yes, there is often some misunderstanding about Jews, Jewish identity and Judaism.

But Jews are not a race, nationality or just simply an ethnic or cultural group.

Jews are a religious group, which like Christiantiy and Islam is composed of many races, nationalities etc.

You cannot be a "Jew for Jesus" any more than you can be a "Christian for Krishna" or a "Mormon for Mohammed."

If you discuss this with any rabbi or Jewish authority in the UK they can explain it in further detail.

I wanna point out something I saw..

"However, the mention and/or inclusion of a group or leader within this archive does not define that group as a "cult" and/or an individual mentioned as either destructive and/or harmful. Instead, such inclusion simply reflects that archived articles and/or research is available about a group or person that has generated some interest and/or controversy."

ANyone read this? It says that a group mentioned here ain't a cult. But it says clear at the top of this page, JJ is a cult. So if the guys call this a cult "eduction" forum, and let this group be called that here.. to me that's totally mixed up man.

My opinion-Jews can keep on doing what they do, and still believe in Jesus. Don't mean they got to give up being a Jew. Ain't no law that says they gotta give up being a Jew cuz they believe what they do.

Carl:

There is freedom of speech here and people can say what they think. Some might say a group is a "cult" or "cult-like" and others may disagree.

The disclaimer is easy to understand. The Ross Institute, its Advisory Board etc. don't agree with every opinion expressed here.

"Cults" are discussed here and so are other topics.

Please Note the list of topics at the main page of this discussion board.

People can believe whatever they want.

Belief in Jesus would be the pivotal belief that defines someone as a Christian, not a Jew.

That is a historical fact.

Jewish law says that when someone believes in Jesus they are no longer simply a "Jew" and have instead become a Christian or a certain type of Jew known specifically as an "apostate Jew."

Jews live by the Hebrew Scriptures as interpreted by Jewish denominations (e.g. Orthodox, Reform, Conservative) and Christians live by the New Testament as interpreted by their denominations (e.g. Roman Catholic, Baptist, Methodist etc.).

When you break the rules and reject the teachings/doctrines of a relgious group you are typically no longer a member of that group and you have made a choice, which places you outside that religion.

Simple enough to understand.

You can't be two religions at once any more than you can register as both a Republican and a Democrat.

It is necessary to pick one.

So there are no "Mormons for Mohammed," "Christians for Krishna" or "Jews for Jesus."

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rrmoderator
Jewish law says that when someone believes in Jesus they are no longer simply a "Jew" and have instead become a Christian or a certain type of Jew known specifically as an "apostate Jew."

So there are no "Mormons for Mohammed," "Christians for Krishna" or "Jews for Jesus."

think they should change their name? Like "apostate Jews for Jesus'? ..dont think that would help their cause. Might as well call themselves "bad Jews for Jesus". doesn't make sense. we cant force them to use a name like that.

JJ are making the point that their racially Jews. WE cant call them just white, now can we? "whites for Jesus".. no way. they come from a Jewish family, and they believe in Jesus. so their Jews for Jesus. nothing wrong with that. nobody in the world can make them stop calling themselves Jews. Its a fact, Jews are both a religious group AND a race.

The name "Jews for Jesus" means that..
1 their Jews (race)
2 their Christian (religion)

nothing wrong with that.. all they mean is that Jews, practicing or not, dont need to be afraid of beleiving in Jesus (because of family looking down on them and such). Got it?

Carl:

"Apostate Jews for Jesus" would be a correct factual name for the group, as they are apostate Jews.

But that probably wouldn't be good for fund-raising.

Jews are not a "race."

Judaism is a religion that includes many races just like Christianity, Islam, Buddhism etc.

Jews are white, black, Asian, etc.

Got it?

This is not about belief--it's about historical facts.

I was using websters to define a Jew. that's waht it told me. i used webster cause i saw you using websters on this link..

[www.culteducation.com]

didnt mean to step on your toes. sorry. just used it since you used it. dont you think its good to use websters?

Websters doesn't decide issues of Jewish identity.

The use of Websters at FAQ is to demonstrate the general way in which the word "cult" is used. It is not quoted as a definitive source.

I think you're getting caught up with terms there moderator. Terms don't define what a cult is.

I guess it depends on your experience of working with cults. I certainly would not define Jews for Jesus as a cult. I have heard and spoken with some of their representatives in an Anglican church.