How do they start?
Posted by:
smegma
()
Date: June 26, 2003 12:03PM
Hi,
I am a psych student and while doing some research, I came across Rick Ross's wonderful, informative and "scary" site.
After reading through a LOT of articles, I still can't figure out a few things...
Although I understand how groups recruit people, how do the so called gurus start? Take Scientology or Heaven's gate?
So, in short, how does 1 person get so many people to blindly follow him(or her) without a group helping to recruit?
I guess you start small, but how do they get the small group?
I am a psych student and while doing some research, I came across Rick Ross's wonderful, informative and "scary" site.
After reading through a LOT of articles, I still can't figure out a few things...
Although I understand how groups recruit people, how do the so called gurus start? Take Scientology or Heaven's gate?
So, in short, how does 1 person get so many people to blindly follow him(or her) without a group helping to recruit?
I guess you start small, but how do they get the small group?
How do they start?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: June 26, 2003 03:01PM
Good questions.
See the following links:
[culteducation.com]
[culteducation.com]
You might also want to watch "The Wave" abd "How to be a Cult Leader" at Videos.
See [culteducation.com]
I am working in England right now so it takes time to clear posts and run them through.
Rick Ross
Moderator
See the following links:
[culteducation.com]
[culteducation.com]
You might also want to watch "The Wave" abd "How to be a Cult Leader" at Videos.
See [culteducation.com]
I am working in England right now so it takes time to clear posts and run them through.
Rick Ross
Moderator
How do they start?
Posted by:
smegma
()
Date: June 27, 2003 02:40AM
Thanks Rick. Again, great resource for students. I've shown the site to my professor, he was full of praises. Oops, validation using authority ;) No really, I mean it, great site!
How do they start?
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: June 27, 2003 10:12PM
Another case study is Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. His lineage claims are debatable (go to trancenet.org for more info)
MMY marketed his material and marketed it to Western seekers who were already hungry for esoteric eastern wisdom. His first point of recruitment were persons in societies dedicated to the study of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky. And in the late 50s early 60s, nobody knew how to fact check these characters. You can read this in chapters 9 to 14 of an online book by Joyce Collins-Smith entitled Call No Man Master
which can now be purchased on amazon.com
The book, The Sorcerer's Apprentice by Tahir Shah, describes the methods used by Indian magicians and some gurus to create bogus miracles. Be careful with Shah, because you cant be sure whether he has inflated his narrative or invented characters. However, his descriptions of the methods used to work the tricks appear to be reliable and match material offered by Premanand, an Indian rationalist, trying to free his nation from the grip of superstition.
Satya Sai Baba, yet another controversiall guru supposedly materializes objects. Images of SSB supposedly generate holy ash. Once you read Tahir Shah, you will see that all this is accomplished through slight of hand (SSB wears long sleeved robes!) and the self generating ash from the pictures (described in Mick Brown's book, Spiritual Tourist) is a matter of simple chemistry.
There is an extensive series of articles by Brian Steele describing the story telling, re-invention, mythmaking that have sculpted Satya Sai Baba's public image. [bdsteel.tripod.com]
Mr Steele is a university trained linguist, and his material is likely to meet the standards needed in your research. Steele wrote some publicity material for SSB and when he realized the guru was a faker, has sought to make amends by exposing his lies.
Getting back to your main question, how people are recruited-that is highly complex. By the time you start writing your thesis or dissertation, you may need to phrase that question with somewhat greater precision--eg 'Use of cognitive dissonance in cult recruitment' or 'The role of social support networks in cult recruitment'
Also gurus are likely to use different types of recruitment than entities like Large Group Awareness Training Other cults disguise themselves as Christian churches.
Yet another method is for a cult or guru to rent rooms from a facility such as a Unity Church. That means they can post fliers about their upcoming lectures/events on a Unity bulletin board and gain access to a group of people who have loosely defined 'metaphysical' interests and are trustful that anything or anyone on Unity property is therefore OK. Thats like a computer virus (cult) being able to spread through a program like MS Outlook Express (Unity)
In Call No Man Master, Joyce Collins-Smith describes how Maharishi initially exploited a group that was studying the works of Ouspensky, a follower of Gurdjieff. Ouspensky was dead and the members were adrift, yearning to find someone who could teach them the esoteric wisdom they'd developed an appetite for in the earlier studies. Gurdjieff/Fourth Way groups tend to be good points of recruitment, because IMO Gurdjieff himself fostered gullibility. His sources were untraceable and unverifiable and his followers have a pattern of constantly falling victim to crooks who claim they know the sources of the material Gurdjieff and Ouspensky used.
So by conning the leader and members of this Ouspensky group, Maharishi gained access to a pool of gullible people, their good name, and their resources. The group leader eventually figured out that Maharishi was a fraud but by that time, a momentum had been established. Maharishi hit the jackpot when he recruited the Beatles. Thats yet another method--get a celebrity.
MMY marketed his material and marketed it to Western seekers who were already hungry for esoteric eastern wisdom. His first point of recruitment were persons in societies dedicated to the study of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky. And in the late 50s early 60s, nobody knew how to fact check these characters. You can read this in chapters 9 to 14 of an online book by Joyce Collins-Smith entitled Call No Man Master
which can now be purchased on amazon.com
The book, The Sorcerer's Apprentice by Tahir Shah, describes the methods used by Indian magicians and some gurus to create bogus miracles. Be careful with Shah, because you cant be sure whether he has inflated his narrative or invented characters. However, his descriptions of the methods used to work the tricks appear to be reliable and match material offered by Premanand, an Indian rationalist, trying to free his nation from the grip of superstition.
Satya Sai Baba, yet another controversiall guru supposedly materializes objects. Images of SSB supposedly generate holy ash. Once you read Tahir Shah, you will see that all this is accomplished through slight of hand (SSB wears long sleeved robes!) and the self generating ash from the pictures (described in Mick Brown's book, Spiritual Tourist) is a matter of simple chemistry.
There is an extensive series of articles by Brian Steele describing the story telling, re-invention, mythmaking that have sculpted Satya Sai Baba's public image. [bdsteel.tripod.com]
Mr Steele is a university trained linguist, and his material is likely to meet the standards needed in your research. Steele wrote some publicity material for SSB and when he realized the guru was a faker, has sought to make amends by exposing his lies.
Getting back to your main question, how people are recruited-that is highly complex. By the time you start writing your thesis or dissertation, you may need to phrase that question with somewhat greater precision--eg 'Use of cognitive dissonance in cult recruitment' or 'The role of social support networks in cult recruitment'
Also gurus are likely to use different types of recruitment than entities like Large Group Awareness Training Other cults disguise themselves as Christian churches.
Yet another method is for a cult or guru to rent rooms from a facility such as a Unity Church. That means they can post fliers about their upcoming lectures/events on a Unity bulletin board and gain access to a group of people who have loosely defined 'metaphysical' interests and are trustful that anything or anyone on Unity property is therefore OK. Thats like a computer virus (cult) being able to spread through a program like MS Outlook Express (Unity)
In Call No Man Master, Joyce Collins-Smith describes how Maharishi initially exploited a group that was studying the works of Ouspensky, a follower of Gurdjieff. Ouspensky was dead and the members were adrift, yearning to find someone who could teach them the esoteric wisdom they'd developed an appetite for in the earlier studies. Gurdjieff/Fourth Way groups tend to be good points of recruitment, because IMO Gurdjieff himself fostered gullibility. His sources were untraceable and unverifiable and his followers have a pattern of constantly falling victim to crooks who claim they know the sources of the material Gurdjieff and Ouspensky used.
So by conning the leader and members of this Ouspensky group, Maharishi gained access to a pool of gullible people, their good name, and their resources. The group leader eventually figured out that Maharishi was a fraud but by that time, a momentum had been established. Maharishi hit the jackpot when he recruited the Beatles. Thats yet another method--get a celebrity.
How do they start?
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: June 27, 2003 10:48PM
Not everyone uses these methods. As I mentioned in the other article, recruitment methods used by ambitious 'export guru' are going to be different from those used by an entity such as Human Potential training program or a commerical indoctrinational group
Human Potential Groups and Large Group Awareness Trainings
They often use material from pre-existing groups--either they purchase a license to use it, or appropriate it without the other group's permission, which may or may not give rise to ill will.
[perso.wanadoo.fr]
The problematic LGATS follow the 'sell it by zealot' method. You get people all fired up, then encourage/pressure them to bring in friends and family members. Therapists and personal trainers may be encouraged to hit on their clients. Some LGATS masquerade as 'team building' resources and well placed graduate will recruit in the work place or employees will be pressured to take the program. This takes us into the area of hostile work place and civil liberties. The thing to remember too is that these LGATS are using power methods derived from social psychology, also use trance induction, but the programs are profit driven and the trainers are not mental health professionals and are not accountable to any code of ethics, such as the one by the American Psychological Association which forbids experimentation that is likely to traumatize people. (The fascinating work done by Stanley Milgram and Philip Zimbardo can no longer be done today)
Use facilities like Unity Churches which are highly tolerant and permit their facilities to be used by anyone. People are likely to trust that anything that happens in a church is benevolent, or at least harmless.
Target areas with a high proportion of 'seekers' -- go to craigslist.org and do searches on their community discussions sections in LA, SF, NYC, and all the other cities to see how often problematic LGATs are mentioned. Time and again, you will see that most often the LA and SF craigslists are used to publicize these groups--or groups like them!
How Gurus and 'Spiritual Teachers' Get started.
I am referring to crooks, not the the genuine article. Key thing is the crooks dont have lineages. A real Sufi, Hindu, Zen or Tibetan teacher will be able to tell you what lineage he or she is in, and who his teacher is. And the genuine teacher will be DELIGHTED to give this information, and that information will be verifiable.
Crooks dont last long if they claim to be Zen or Tibetan, because it is now too easy to fact check such claims. Its harder to fact check Hinduism and Sufism (though if you are determined to do so, you can!), so crooks are more likely to claim such back ground. Key thing is they will say 'they were inspired by' or 'encourage to teach'--thats NOT the same as being able to say 'This is the lineage I am in and that I am accountable to.' And real teachers train for YEARS.
Bogus teachers will claim that their enlightenment is sufficient authority--bogus. There are many forms of enlightenment, it takes a long time to adjust to, and yet more traning and life experience are needed before someone is ready to teach. One guru makes a big deal out of his enlightenment, but he got just 2.5 weeks of training from his guru before he was told he was ready to teach. By contrast, you need 4 years of premedicine, 4 years of medical school and at least 3 to 4 years of residency before you're ready to practice as a physician!
Even if a spiritual teacher is genuine, he or she is at grave risk of being exploited by publicity hungry crooks. We can only hope the Dalai Lama has a secretary who carefully fact checks the background of each and every organization or person who begs a visit from the DL!
Human Potential Groups and Large Group Awareness Trainings
They often use material from pre-existing groups--either they purchase a license to use it, or appropriate it without the other group's permission, which may or may not give rise to ill will.
[perso.wanadoo.fr]
The problematic LGATS follow the 'sell it by zealot' method. You get people all fired up, then encourage/pressure them to bring in friends and family members. Therapists and personal trainers may be encouraged to hit on their clients. Some LGATS masquerade as 'team building' resources and well placed graduate will recruit in the work place or employees will be pressured to take the program. This takes us into the area of hostile work place and civil liberties. The thing to remember too is that these LGATS are using power methods derived from social psychology, also use trance induction, but the programs are profit driven and the trainers are not mental health professionals and are not accountable to any code of ethics, such as the one by the American Psychological Association which forbids experimentation that is likely to traumatize people. (The fascinating work done by Stanley Milgram and Philip Zimbardo can no longer be done today)
Use facilities like Unity Churches which are highly tolerant and permit their facilities to be used by anyone. People are likely to trust that anything that happens in a church is benevolent, or at least harmless.
Target areas with a high proportion of 'seekers' -- go to craigslist.org and do searches on their community discussions sections in LA, SF, NYC, and all the other cities to see how often problematic LGATs are mentioned. Time and again, you will see that most often the LA and SF craigslists are used to publicize these groups--or groups like them!
How Gurus and 'Spiritual Teachers' Get started.
I am referring to crooks, not the the genuine article. Key thing is the crooks dont have lineages. A real Sufi, Hindu, Zen or Tibetan teacher will be able to tell you what lineage he or she is in, and who his teacher is. And the genuine teacher will be DELIGHTED to give this information, and that information will be verifiable.
Crooks dont last long if they claim to be Zen or Tibetan, because it is now too easy to fact check such claims. Its harder to fact check Hinduism and Sufism (though if you are determined to do so, you can!), so crooks are more likely to claim such back ground. Key thing is they will say 'they were inspired by' or 'encourage to teach'--thats NOT the same as being able to say 'This is the lineage I am in and that I am accountable to.' And real teachers train for YEARS.
Bogus teachers will claim that their enlightenment is sufficient authority--bogus. There are many forms of enlightenment, it takes a long time to adjust to, and yet more traning and life experience are needed before someone is ready to teach. One guru makes a big deal out of his enlightenment, but he got just 2.5 weeks of training from his guru before he was told he was ready to teach. By contrast, you need 4 years of premedicine, 4 years of medical school and at least 3 to 4 years of residency before you're ready to practice as a physician!
Even if a spiritual teacher is genuine, he or she is at grave risk of being exploited by publicity hungry crooks. We can only hope the Dalai Lama has a secretary who carefully fact checks the background of each and every organization or person who begs a visit from the DL!
How do they start?
Posted by:
smegma
()
Date: June 28, 2003 02:24AM
Thank you all for the wealth of information. My weekend is sure to be full. BTW, I'm planning to write a paper on this fascinating subject. Thanks. :)
How do they start?
Posted by:
richardmgreen
()
Date: June 28, 2003 10:21PM
Quote
Originally posted by smegma
Hi,
I am a psych student and while doing some research, I came across Rick Ross's wonderful, informative and "scary" site.
After reading through a LOT of articles, I still can't figure out a few things...
Although I understand how groups recruit people, how do the so called gurus start?
(RMG's reply: Some start based on an already established religion and exploit the mystical doctrines of that religion. Another way they start is to claim that all the established versions of a given religion are out of touch with the original message and intent of either God or the founder of the religion and only the cult has the true path of the faith.
For those religions that are NRMs, psychobabble is popular. they use some invogue psychological belief and meld it with New Age thinking like channeling. It gets out of hand when the leader claims to have some kind of link to God, cosmic consciousness, etc. when he doesn't.
And from the leaders of some of the Jewish based groups, I know that they know they don't have the real truth when it comes to the origin of the universe, etc.. Some rabbis claim that the Kaballah has the uniried field theorem in it.)
Take Scientology or Heaven's gate?
So, in short, how does 1 person get so many people to blindly follow him(or her) without a group helping to recruit?
(RMG's reply: Some times it takes pop stars or rock stars to promote the guru. Like the Beatles(Maharaji), Madonna(th3e Kaballah Center), etc.. At the heart of it though is the rejection of the old world values in the old religions (at least old to the seeker of a new path)
Another thing to remember is that many NRMs go after disenfranchised people who are inconsequential to an existing religious order. Xianity, Chasidic Judaism, etc. weren't trying to recruite the top intellectuals or the already established people they went after the common people to get grassroots support.
I guess you start small, but how do they get the small group?
How do they start?
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: June 29, 2003 04:56AM
Dan Shaw is a clinical social worker/psychoanalyst who was involved with Siddha yoga, an outfit started by Muktananda (very problematic history) He has written a couple of articles on the psychology of cult/guru relationships. His perspective is psychoanalytic/object relations, rather than social psychological, but you might find some tidbits for your paper.
[hometown.aol.com]
The thing that makes these characters powerful is that they have a knack for using profound, beneficial material in such a way as to access the deepest longings of the human heart. But they subtly link the lovely stuff to a covert, exploitative, very unlovely agenda. Goodness is used to serve evil,. and the most agonizing question every survivor must ask is, 'Why does Goodness (or God) allow itself to be used as a burglar tool by a trust thief?'
I came to the conclusion after meeting one con artist 'I cannot trust this man even when he is telling the truth. Because in his case, even when he tells the truth, he is telling the truth so as to conceal a larger lie.'
Most people are not like that. But all it take is meeting one psychopath/con artist, and you go through a painful phase where even the Good, the True and the Beautiful look like accomplices to crime. Thats really the worst offense committed by spiritual crooks--to cause us to distrust goodness.
In actual truth, its our ideas ABOUT truth, goodness and God that are being manipulated. We tend to equate our ideas with reality itself. Seeing that there is a difference between our ideas concerning goodness and goodness itself is part of advanced recovery.
Yet another paper (maybe I mentioned it) is 'Evaluating Spiritual and Utopian Groups' by Dr Arthur J Deikman. Deikman is a psychiatrist on faculty at the University of California San Francisco. He has a collection of articles on his website
[www.deikman.com] If you go to 'cults' you will find the article. Unfortunately it doesnt give the journal or year of publication, but your own university library may be able to supply that.
Happy research. Hope you get an A!
[hometown.aol.com]
The thing that makes these characters powerful is that they have a knack for using profound, beneficial material in such a way as to access the deepest longings of the human heart. But they subtly link the lovely stuff to a covert, exploitative, very unlovely agenda. Goodness is used to serve evil,. and the most agonizing question every survivor must ask is, 'Why does Goodness (or God) allow itself to be used as a burglar tool by a trust thief?'
I came to the conclusion after meeting one con artist 'I cannot trust this man even when he is telling the truth. Because in his case, even when he tells the truth, he is telling the truth so as to conceal a larger lie.'
Most people are not like that. But all it take is meeting one psychopath/con artist, and you go through a painful phase where even the Good, the True and the Beautiful look like accomplices to crime. Thats really the worst offense committed by spiritual crooks--to cause us to distrust goodness.
In actual truth, its our ideas ABOUT truth, goodness and God that are being manipulated. We tend to equate our ideas with reality itself. Seeing that there is a difference between our ideas concerning goodness and goodness itself is part of advanced recovery.
Yet another paper (maybe I mentioned it) is 'Evaluating Spiritual and Utopian Groups' by Dr Arthur J Deikman. Deikman is a psychiatrist on faculty at the University of California San Francisco. He has a collection of articles on his website
[www.deikman.com] If you go to 'cults' you will find the article. Unfortunately it doesnt give the journal or year of publication, but your own university library may be able to supply that.
Happy research. Hope you get an A!
How do they start?
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: June 29, 2003 05:07AM
discreet. This article from Rick's archive
[www.culteducation.com]
charts the course of one such group.
The problem with discreet personality centered esoteric type groups is that this work tends to foster a disastrous combination of social isolation, elitism, intellectual sophistication, combined with a perennial yearning for a Magic Daddy/Magic Mommy. This vests tremendous power in the teacher---exactly what reportedly occurred in this group.
Many of the members were practicing psychotherapists and because their tie to the teacher was reportedly rooted in childish fantasy, they could not IMO apply adult insight to the relationship and failed to see that was unethical to recruit their patients into the group. But that was what they did.
Because this group was discreet and recruited through the client-patient relationship, it evaded detection for 15 years. It was just happenstance that this most remarkable article was written.
Some months ago, a man posted asking us for help researching a group based in LA that is led by a secretive person named 'Michael'. Recruiting is strictly through word of mouth, often through family and friendship networks, and they have left no paper trail, or any trace whatsoever on the web.
A group that is discreet, that carefully grooms prospective recruits, and whose leader is patient and avoids publicity will last much longer than a group that gets publicity. Margaret Singer, an eminent authority, has said that these tiny cults are all over the place. They will only get publicity if someone files a lawsuit and refuses to accept a settlement in which documents are sealed.
[www.culteducation.com]
charts the course of one such group.
The problem with discreet personality centered esoteric type groups is that this work tends to foster a disastrous combination of social isolation, elitism, intellectual sophistication, combined with a perennial yearning for a Magic Daddy/Magic Mommy. This vests tremendous power in the teacher---exactly what reportedly occurred in this group.
Many of the members were practicing psychotherapists and because their tie to the teacher was reportedly rooted in childish fantasy, they could not IMO apply adult insight to the relationship and failed to see that was unethical to recruit their patients into the group. But that was what they did.
Because this group was discreet and recruited through the client-patient relationship, it evaded detection for 15 years. It was just happenstance that this most remarkable article was written.
Some months ago, a man posted asking us for help researching a group based in LA that is led by a secretive person named 'Michael'. Recruiting is strictly through word of mouth, often through family and friendship networks, and they have left no paper trail, or any trace whatsoever on the web.
A group that is discreet, that carefully grooms prospective recruits, and whose leader is patient and avoids publicity will last much longer than a group that gets publicity. Margaret Singer, an eminent authority, has said that these tiny cults are all over the place. They will only get publicity if someone files a lawsuit and refuses to accept a settlement in which documents are sealed.
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