I second that motion.

I do not intend to get banned on purpose. I just want to be authentic in what i say. I also wanted to end on a good note if I do get banned. I make the effort though to not repeat myself in order to avoid this. As it is, I hope things do work out for the best for you guys irregardless of who is right or wrong.

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walnor
Is the TRI an "off-centered" group? Yes. Nevertheless, their gripes should have been brought directly to TFI leaders, and especially to Ole Anthony. This was never done. Griping to a small number of former TFI leaders at a chance meeting does not fit the muster of Matthew 18.

How many leaders of Trinity Foundation do you think there are?

And, I think it is tacky to characterize Wendy and me blowing the whistle on Trinity Foundation as "griping." Was Sherron Watkins "griping" when she wrote that memo to Ken Lay at Enron? You and Jackie say you are impartial, but when you say things with this kind of spin it looks like you have an agenda.

Trinity fits all of Lifton's criteria for a cult (or Rick Ross's, or Steven Hassan's, or whoever's you want to use), and it trivializes what Wendy and I are saying to paint it as us just having "gripes." In fact, it plays into Trinity's hands for you to do so.

Counselor47 -

This whole Alnors "cult apologist" work on behalf of TFI, reminds me of Eric Pement's defense of JPUSA when Ron Enroth wrote about JPUSA in "Recovering From Churches That Abuse".
Eric is an expert on cults, but, since he was a part of JPUSA for over 20 years, he couldn't bring himself to admit that Ron Enroth was right. To much humble pie and crow to eat at one sitting. He kept on defending them and denying they were a cult. When yours truly brought up the fact - on 2 ex-JPUSA boards and AR-talk - that Pement's own wife, Barb, spent two weeks at Wellspring, he finally shut up.
The Alnors aren't that different. They've associated with Ole for years, and can't admit that they were played. They can misapply Scripture and use straw-man arguements all they want. Most can see right through them.
I don't hear anybody else defending TFI, do you? Maybe there are those who realize they let a cult fool them, but at least they're staying quite, rather than embarrassing themselves publically.
God will vindicate you.

God bless,

Mark

I can imagine that it would be hard to change one's perspective/opinion - the paradigm shift.

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seeking
I can imagine that it would be hard to change one's perspective/opinion - the paradigm shift.

Yes, it is hard--it was hard for Wendy and me. When we first left Trinity we were not saying that it is a cult. All I knew when we first separated was that something was terribly wrong. It was only after a lot of prayer, therapy, reading into the cult literature, and becoming involved in a healthy church that we were able to develop an accurate picture of what we had escaped from. That is why I find I find it so bizarre when people like the Alnors say we need to go back and talk to Trinity. It is like going back into another mindset that I have been working for years to get out of.

Everything we have to say to Trinity is in Wendy's book. If they want to try to give that book a reading in something other than a defensive posture, they can receive what they need to hear from us.

Something disturbing has happened. Yesterday, Wendy received a threatening message on her voicemail at work. She filed a report with the police, who are taking this very seriously.

I do not think anyone in the leadership at Trinity would sanction this sort of thing—it goes way over the top. However, it is possible that someone loosely associated with Trinity could believe they are performing some sort of service by doing this—you know, silencing the enemies of the Lord, and all. If so, I hope the leadership at Trinity will move quickly to squelch this. Threatening violence is a crime in and of itself.

Cherenuf1,
Any word yet on the hotseat notes? Have you had a chance to ask Ole about them yet. I really appreciate your offer to do so. Thanks.
cultaware

I will be the most surprised guy in 14 states if Ole decides to give the hotseat notes to the people that they pertain to, but I am going to be very disappointed in cherenuff1 if she does not at least ask, like she said she would.

I've just GOT to testify!!

12 years ago, after being in an auto accident, God sovereignly directed my steps to find Ron Enroth's "Churches That Abuse". The Lord used that book to start my recovery from the cult I was in.
"Recovering From Churches That Abuse" - sent to me free by Ron Enroth himself - further sped my recovery.
"Seductive Poison" by ex-People's Temple member, Deborah Layton, also aided me, as did "Death of a Guru" ( I forget the author's name.) There have been a handful of other books that have been of great aid to me.
ABOVE ALL ELSE, God's own Word brought the most healing, especially the promise of Psalm 107:20 " He sent His word and healed them and delivered them from their destructions."
I hadn't really read any cult related books for several years, until I read " I Can't Hear God Anymore" by Wendy. Although it felt like I was opening a bunch of wounds the first time I read it - because many of her and Doug's experiences were EXACTLY like the things I had gone through - a second reading provided me with some insights that literally strenghtened my faith recently - that coincided with a HUGE answer to prayer in my own life last week - especially the things written on pages 198 - 199.
I can't recommend this book highly enough!
I hope and pray that God continues to use the Duncans and that God's will will be done in and through them.
Godspeed to you Doug and Wendy!!!!!

Mark Scheiderer