The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
cultaware
()
Date: February 13, 2007 10:51AM
Mark,
I think you are right about that. I believes the Duncans ran into some anti-cult professionals whose attitude was that they did not know or care if TFI was a cult or not because they had an awesome data base and gave good info on other cults. I can see where there might be a conflict of interest there. This website does not seem to have that problem. Your insight into fence sitters is also interesting. It does seem that most defenders of TFI here either have never actually been invovled or are on the periphery of the group. NathanA and cherenuff1 have admitted as much.
cultaware
I think you are right about that. I believes the Duncans ran into some anti-cult professionals whose attitude was that they did not know or care if TFI was a cult or not because they had an awesome data base and gave good info on other cults. I can see where there might be a conflict of interest there. This website does not seem to have that problem. Your insight into fence sitters is also interesting. It does seem that most defenders of TFI here either have never actually been invovled or are on the periphery of the group. NathanA and cherenuff1 have admitted as much.
cultaware
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
cherenuff1
()
Date: February 13, 2007 11:11AM
Quote
Mark Scheiderer
cherenuff 1-
I'm using my real name. [www.eth-s.com] explains part of my past - in a cult.
Pete Evans from TFI contacted me several years ago - TFI was looking into the cult I was in, ironically - and we spoke several times on the phone and communicated several times by e-mail. Something didn't sit quite right with me in his descriptions of how life went on at TFI, and in what I read in the assinine "The Door" magazine. When I read Ole's testimony somewhere - I can't find it at the time - I was totally convinced that he is NOT, NOT, NOT genuinely converted. His ramblings from the morning Bible studies that are at TFI's site only confirmed it. No wonder he says that Bible study, prayer etc. is a waste of time to better yourself as a Christian - if people at TFI WERE reading their Bibles regularly on their own, they would realize how "off" Ole' and TFI are. <<<< By the way, that is exactly how God opened my eyes to the fact I was in a cult. The Lord sovereignly put it in my heart to stay in His Word, and He sovereignly opened my eyes and delivered me.>>>>
Since some are saying that the Duncans didn't follow Matt. 18 and are therefore dissing Wendy's book, my interest was piqued. IMHO, some counter-cult experts have turned into cult-apologists in regard to this matter.
I'm reading Wendy's excellent book for the second time. Her writing and insights are excellent, and there is no doubt in my mind that TFI is a cult.
( The endorsers on the back of the book only strengthen that opinion.)
You say you've been connected with TFI off and on for the past 15 years.
If that's the case, don't bother to try to dialogue with me. "Fence riders" are impossible to reason with and do nothing more to muck up the conversation. I've seen that too many times at other ex-cult forums.
Hope I've satisfied your curiousity and the curiousity of those within TFI who are reading this, as well as those who've made money due to their past affiliation with TFI.
I'll close with one other note: The FACT that some have made money off of their affiliation with TFI - and I'm talking about those who've never lived there as part of the community - is the real reason, IMO, why they are trying so hard to discredit the Duncans. It's not about truth. It's about saving face.
Mark
Mark,
Using Doug and Zuezors own words. If you haven't made the attempt to legitimately research the book, the people in the book and Trinity, then you 'Bring nothing to the table". You are wasting our time and cannot bring anything resembling open-mindeded to this thread.
As for me being a...er...fencerider. That is considered an ad-hominen attack for you do not know me. Apparently you haven't had the thought to peruse the back issues of this post and find that I have been involved with Trinity in many capacities. It is just the last few months that I have decided to stop attending Bible Studies for awhile.
Please..Please back up your statements concerning the money-making people. I can completely understand why you would be taken in by a cult. If you can read a book and completely believe it then I've got a money making proposition for you.
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
cherenuff1
()
Date: February 13, 2007 11:18AM
Quote
His ramblings from the morning Bible studies that are at TFI's site only confirmed it. No wonder he says that Bible study, prayer etc. is a waste of time to better yourself as a Christian - if people at TFI WERE reading their Bibles regularly on their own, they would realize how "off" Ole' and TFI are.
Again...**sigh**, back this up. Show me anything that says Ole says Bible Study, prayer is a waste of time? Prove to me that Ole doesn't wish people to read the bibles.
Doug and cultaware...for the sake of complete honesty, I would hope that you two would at least treat Mark like you would Nathan. I know you two are grimacing at some of his words but refuse to refute him.
Why do you think Trinity is off? What do you have (besides a book) that tells you it is off. What about the Doctrine do you take umbrage at. What facts do you have that you can actually bring to the table.
If you're going on 'gut' then you need to leave, do some research and come back with something a little more solid to join a discussion.
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
cultaware
()
Date: February 13, 2007 11:18AM
[b:82d028ca91]As for me being a...er...fencerider. That is considered an ad-hominen attack for you do not know me[/b:82d028ca91].
cherenuff1,
You yourself have admitted that you have been involved [b:82d028ca91]on and off [/b:82d028ca91]for 15 years and don't participate very much because of other obligations. So how is he attacking you? Seems you just dislike what he has to say.
cultware
cherenuff1,
You yourself have admitted that you have been involved [b:82d028ca91]on and off [/b:82d028ca91]for 15 years and don't participate very much because of other obligations. So how is he attacking you? Seems you just dislike what he has to say.
cultware
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
cultaware
()
Date: February 13, 2007 11:23AM
cherenuff1
Grimacing? What in the world are you talking about?
cultaware
Grimacing? What in the world are you talking about?
cultaware
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
cherenuff1
()
Date: February 13, 2007 11:33AM
Quote
cultaware
[b:c41dab56b4]As for me being a...er...fencerider. That is considered an ad-hominen attack for you do not know me[/b:c41dab56b4].
cherenuff1,
You yourself have admitted that you have been involved [b:c41dab56b4]on and off [/b:c41dab56b4]for 15 years and don't participate very much because of other obligations. So how is he attacking you? Seems you just dislike what he has to say.
cultware
**sigh**
I was on for 7 years. Moved out of state for 3. Moved back and became involved for the last 6 years except for the last two months. I've gone undercover, helped out with the Door and was asked if I would like to work permantly for The Door (which I declined).
If this is fence riding and if the moderator agrees than I will apologize and back off.
I'm just wondering why you don't treat Mark the same that you have treated Nathan (ie. grimacing).
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
cherenuff1
()
Date: February 13, 2007 11:47AM
Mark,
The snide remark I made concerning you getting taken in by a cult was uncalled for. I apologize.
The snide remark I made concerning you getting taken in by a cult was uncalled for. I apologize.
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
counselor47
()
Date: February 14, 2007 12:58AM
Quote
Why do you think Trinity is off? What do you have (besides a book) that tells you it is off. What about the Doctrine do you take umbrage at. What facts do you have that you can actually bring to the table.
You continue to trivialize Wendy's book, but the book is the distillation of the testimonies of dozens of former members. In fact, I think it would be fair to say that it represents the consensus view of most of the former members, though there may be a small number of exceptions. And, you are forgetting about Glenna's article, which is the only actual investigative piece that anyone has ever done about Trinity Foundation. Glenna worked basically full time on that story for about six weeks, and even travelled to Arizona doing her background research. It is disingenuous in the extreme for you to compare what she did with the many puff pieces that have been written about Trinity where the "reporters" just repeated what was told to them by Trinity without checking out any of the facts.
When Glenna first talked to us she was not necessarily buying what we were telling her. It was only in the process of doing the research for her story that she realized that we were, in fact, telling the truth.
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
Mark Scheiderer
()
Date: February 15, 2007 08:55AM
counselor47-
Something just occured to me. The leader of the cult I was in always used to "hide behind" the verse "Touch not mine anointed and do my prophets no harm." She was implying that to speak out against her was wrong, since God Himself was her protector since she was one of His prophets. Questioning her or disagreeing with her - not to mention my heinous "sin" of exposing her - was equivalent to "touching" her, therefore, people were too scared to question, disagree, etc.
Those who are opposed to Wendy's book aren't trying to refute what she found out about Ole's past, they aren't talking to other ex-TRI's,, etc., etc., etc. What they're doing is "hiding" behind Matt. 18. They're using it as a smokescreen for Ole'.
And Ole' is all to happy to remain behind the smoke, only appearing briefly to act like he's taking the high ground.
Mark
Something just occured to me. The leader of the cult I was in always used to "hide behind" the verse "Touch not mine anointed and do my prophets no harm." She was implying that to speak out against her was wrong, since God Himself was her protector since she was one of His prophets. Questioning her or disagreeing with her - not to mention my heinous "sin" of exposing her - was equivalent to "touching" her, therefore, people were too scared to question, disagree, etc.
Those who are opposed to Wendy's book aren't trying to refute what she found out about Ole's past, they aren't talking to other ex-TRI's,, etc., etc., etc. What they're doing is "hiding" behind Matt. 18. They're using it as a smokescreen for Ole'.
And Ole' is all to happy to remain behind the smoke, only appearing briefly to act like he's taking the high ground.
Mark
The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas
Posted by:
counselor47
()
Date: February 16, 2007 12:02AM
Yes, that is a good analysis of what is happening, Mark. The fact is, Trinity is not interested in reconciling with us or with any other former member. They have seized on this Matthew 18 thing because of the opportunity to do so provided by a person whom I'm sure they see as a "useful idiot." However, if they really do want to try to extend themselves and open a dialogue, I would be willing--as I have already said on this forum--to arrange a meeting between one of the elders and a handful of former members. If they truly have an interest in reconciliation there is a door that is open.
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