NathanA:

You are repeating yourself again.

And you are very close to being banned from this message board.

NathanA,
Seems to me you are pushing to be banned from posting here? At least then you'd have an excuse for not being able to rescue TFI. I for one hope you haven't run out of gas.
cultaware

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I suggest this... ONLY those that have been involved with Trinity for [b:160c2fa412]6 months [/b:160c2fa412]or more should respond to this post. If you haven't, then why are you here? I even include Nathan on this.

Despite your suggestion about only posting here if you were a part of TFI for six months or more (I myself was involved for a little more than five) I am going to post anyway and if you do not like it then I cannot help that. I was here first, for one thing, and I have posted here more than anybody, so no, I am not going anywhere. Sorry.

It is only fair that since I asked Nathan to name his three least favorite things about TFI (something he never did do, I will point out. Give it up, Nathan) I will do the same, describing my experience. Here are the first three, off the top of my head:
[b:160c2fa412]
1) Everybody else there was like at least twenty years older than me, and had obviously all known each other for a long time. Most of the people I worked around were not very freindly. It was a very cliquish culture there.

2) The compulsory 7:30 AM "Bible studies" which weren't really Bible studies at all, but Ole holding forth on Ecclesiastes and Job and depressing discourses about the futility of human effort. No teaching on love, no teaching on grace.

3) Any time that I would disagree with or question Ole in any of the morning "Bible studies", he'd either silence me with some sarcastic or cutting comment or tell me to ask my Tuesday/Thursday "Bible Study Leaders" my question. I was always thinking, "You're the one who said it, Ole, so why do you tell me to ask somebody else what you mean?" He'd never really answer anything to my satisfaction.
[/b:160c2fa412]

These are the first three I can think of. Since you posted the above ,Michelle, I was debating with myself about whether to respond anyway. Remember last Pentecost at the lake when Ole shamed and humiliated you in front of the group? Remember how upset you were after he told you to make certain confessions to us? I remember that incident, and vividly. It disturbed me. That incident demonstrates to me, it in my mind is evidence of the level of trust and devotion you have for Ole, how much you yourself deify him, and how much control he really does have over you Michelle, whether you realize it or not. So let's not fight. All I am saying is is that I was there when Ole humiliated you in front of all of us and you got terribly upset. None of that was necessary that night. You esteem him more than you realize, or admit. I have seen it.

Here are three things I liked about TFI:

1) I liked my work, watching TBN, making transcripts, studying the big-money ministries, going to crusades, trash runs with Pete. That was an experience I value.

2) The salad bar in the Lair and Saturday-morning brunch. Barbecuing out back.

3) Certain friends I made there that I still communicate with and miss, like Manu, the foreign-exchange student from India who was at the Rulledge's,
(he reminds one of Fez from [i:4d0356d7a5]That Seventies Show[/i:4d0356d7a5]) and my artist friend who lives in the duplex across the street.

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zeuszor

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I suggest this... ONLY those that have been involved with Trinity for [b:cab27e400a]6 months [/b:cab27e400a]or more should respond to this post. If you haven't, then why are you here? I even include Nathan on this.

Despite your suggestion about only posting here if you were a part of TFI for six months or more (I myself was involved for a little more than five)

([b:cab27e400a]When are you going to actually come up with a solid time? You posted earlier that it was three months and at another point it was 2 months)[/b:cab27e400a]

It is only fair that since I asked Nathan to name his three least favorite things about TFI (something he never did do, I will point out. Give it up, Nathan) I will do the same, describing my experience. Here are the first three, off the top of my head:

These are the first three I can think of. Since you posted the above ,Michelle, I was debating with myself about whether to respond anyway. Remember last Pentecost at the lake when Ole shamed and humiliated you in front of the group? Remember how upset you were after he told you to make certain confessions to us? I remember that incident, and vividly. It disturbed me. That incident demonstrates to me, it in my mind is evidence of the level of trust and devotion you have for Ole, how much you yourself deify him, and how much control he really does have over you Michelle, whether you realize it or not. So let's not fight. All I am saying is is that I was there when Ole humiliated you in front of all of us and you got terribly upset. None of that was necessary that night. You esteem him more than you realize, or admit. I have seen it.

Wow...this is the classic example of the way you completely are not with it and the way that Wendy's book is like this. Like you told Wendy, you saw me shamed. What you wrote here is what would have been in Wendy's book.

This is the real truth to that story Brian. I have been taking care of a serious ill child for 5 years. My marriage has been less than pleasant in the past and I was tired...Very tired. When we were there at Pentecost. I tried everything to hide my depression and my ill feelings toward life in general. I cried and told them of my lonliness of caring for my daughter. I cried and told them of my shame for wanting to hate her. I cried and opened up to a group of people that would never judged me.

You have now judged me and my sorrow and have made complete light of the struggle I had in that moment. You have belittled my feelings by writing that I was "coerced" into revealing my battle.

I approached Ole. He NEVER approached me. I NEEDED someone to talk to and he was there reading so I went to talk to him. I told him of my pain, my tiredness and the fact that I resented my daughter. I told him that the shame of resenting such a beautiful little girl was eating me up inside. He talked to me about God. He told me that God was with me even if I didnt' feel that at the moment. He then asked me IF I wanted to share my experiences with the group later on. I said I did.

Everyone figured something was wrong with me but I refused to speak because I was ashamed of myself but I told Ole that YES I would like to open up so that others could see what I was going through.

Brian....I"M very offended that you saw what I did as shameful. I'm offended that I opened up myself to a group of people that love me yet you were disgusted. I'm offended by the fact that you didn't see the immense healing that simple opening of myself did for me and the way I view my daughter.

I'm offended that you didn't see how the people there felt bad for not helping me when I needed it. I'm offended that you didn't have the heart to feel the love that flowed for me and my daughter.

I'm offended that you would twist the truth of what happened in your above post but yet not say that after I confessed my fears of a dying daughter and sadness you yourself came up to me and told me "'Thank you for sharing". and that you "Feel closer to me". Did you forget that?

I'm offended because Doug knows this yet will say nothing untoward you. I'm offended that Wendy wrote that she was "aghast" at the fact that I was forced to speak. THIS IS FELLOWSHIP..PEOPLE. Would all of you rather I kept a burning resentment against my daughter and myself until I couldn't take my shame anymore or perhaps you would say. "Talk to a psychologist". They were there and I needed people to listen.

There is PLENTY that I don't share but for the sake of my daughter, I NEEDED to share.

This is why I'm offended by Wendy's book. The words are twisted without the other realness coming out. This is why I'm offended by you Brian. You can quote scripture like a good little boy but when it comes to living scripture with your heart and soul you are lost.

Yes...I'm am greatly offended and very hurt by what I shared with you as part of a group yet you are reviled by my pain and honesty. It hurts.

You need to go away. You bring nothing to the table except quoted scripture and a heart filled with resentment and pride.

If after unloading your burden before us you felt better, I am glad. No, I do not remember approaching you later on in the evening. And I am sorry that you are offended and certainly it was not my intent to belittle Andrea, your feelings, or you. I am not insensitive to your situation. All I am saying is that that night is an example of how Ole uses group confession to control people's behavior through exploiting their fears and guilts. It illustrates the fact that you esteem him more than you may realize or be able to admit, and that the group has more control over you and your decisions more than you may realize. Certain things are better kept private and personal.

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This is why I'm offended by Wendy's book. The words are twisted without the other realness coming out. This is why I'm offended by you Brian. You can quote scripture like a good little boy but when it comes to living scripture with your heart and soul you are lost.

I am well aware of the beam in my eye and you know practically nothing about me or my faith. How dare you tell me about my walk with God! Now you are insinuating that I am a bad person in an attempt to silence me. Another ad hominem attack. I never questioned your character, so please, leave mine out of this as well. That is not nice, nor fair. None among us is perfect. Attempting to attack me personally will not change the fact that you are involved with an overly controlling and abusive ministry led by a sociopathic phony. Let's not fight. This is not a personal matter. When I call TFI a cult I base that judgement on the fact that TFI conforms to the following three criteria:
[b:24aaa0b3ea]
1) A living leader who is the object of veneration as an exclusive teacher of the sublime things of God, and who controls the members' lives and behavior.

2) A doctrine in place that is designed and implemented to the end of re-conditioning the member's personal identity ("thought reform", "mind control", or "brainwashing") and belief system with respect to Ole's version of Christianity and interpretation of the Scriptures.

3) Exploitation of the members; physically, financially, and emotionally. Some of those people work their butts off for fifty bucks a week, and have done so for years. Tell me that ain't exploitation. What exactly does Ole do for TFI? What exactly is his job?
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Come on Michelle, don't be catty. Instead of defending TFI and its practices, you attack me. Tell me please how the doctrine that says that "you are the Antichrist" is NOT a mind-control doctrine.

This group has definite boundary issues. What I disliked about the heavily encouraged pulic confessions is the fact that they were frequently used against you later on in order to keep you in line. What is really frightening are all the notes Ole kept of everyones "high place" hot seats. I bet these notes are one reason many ex- members have trouble speaking out about their experiences there. In fact Ole recently [i:eb0b0852c1]accidentally[/i:eb0b0852c1] released some of them to Glenna, the reporter.I wish he would at least destroy the records on the people who have left and at the very least destroy mine. It is kind of intimidating to have them in Ole's possession. Really, why does he keep them at all?
cultaware

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zeuszor

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This is why I'm offended by Wendy's book. The words are twisted without the other realness coming out. This is why I'm offended by you Brian. You can quote scripture like a good little boy but when it comes to living scripture with your heart and soul you are lost.

I am well aware of the beam in my eye and you know practically nothing about me or my faith. How dare you tell me about my walk with God! Now you are insinuating that I am a bad person in an attempt to silence me. Another ad hominem attack. I never questioned your character, so please, leave mine out of this as well. That is not nice, nor fair. None among us is perfect. Attempting to attack me personally will not change the fact that you are involved with an overly controlling and abusive ministry led by a sociopathic phony. Let's not fight. This is not a personal matter. When I call TFI a cult I base that judgement on the fact that TFI conforms to the following three criteria:
[b:82b40ef6e8]
1) A living leader who is the object of veneration as an exclusive teacher of the sublime things of God, and who controls the members' lives and behavior.

2) A doctrine in place that is designed and implemented to the end of re-conditioning the member's personal identity ("thought reform", "mind control", or "brainwashing") and belief system with respect to Ole's version of Christianity and interpretation of the Scriptures.

3) Exploitation of the members; physically, financially, and emotionally. Some of those people work their butts off for fifty bucks a week, and have done so for years. Tell me that ain't exploitation. What exactly does Ole do for TFI? What exactly is his job?
[/b:82b40ef6e8]

Come on Michelle, don't be catty. Instead of defending TFI and its practices, you attack me. Tell me please how the doctrine that says that "you are the Antichrist" is NOT a mind-control doctrine.

Ok...lets talk fact. The three points you listed is something that myself have not seen. Fact: There are perhaps 10 people that live on the $50 bucks a week but there are over 30 other members that don't (myself included). You yourself seemed happy at first with $50 a week, 3 meals a day and a roof over your head. Personnally, I wouldn't do it. It's not for me but the ones that do want it seem content. What's you point?

Fact: The Trinity Foundation's finances are open to all (even to Doug and Wendy). Anyone can come and go as they please.

Fact: We teach that only God is the truth, NOT our minds and what we think of ourselves. We are not the antichrist (as you keep harping on). Our minds are the antichrist. Our selfish desires and fears and shames. Only with the Lords grace and Christ's blood can we overcome and throw off the shallowness of our egos and embrace the Lord. At least...that is what I believe. I believe God is a righteous and awesome God. I believe that Christ's sacrifice was for our sins and I believe that my own ego gets in the way of following Christ and Gods word. I believe that we must turn to God every moment of every day even though our egos get in the way at times.

Fact: My children go to a different church. I've gone to different churches with my inlaws. My eldest daughter and one of the elders daughters go to another church. I have numerous friends (outside of Trinity). We have a decent income yet haven't tithed nor been "forced" to tithe. I haven't been "reviled, shamed etc." about not attending bible studies. We are going to build a house in another city and most likely attend a Presbyterian church there that has the small cell groups that I enjoy in a church yet I haven't been "reviled, shamed, shunned..etc..blah blah".

Now you tell me...is this cultic?

Hey, I do not have time to comment deeply right now because I am getting ready to leave but will comment later. But, I will say that I have heard Ole say, "You are the Antichrist" lots of times. I do not misunderstand. That's what he said. He is reconditioning your identity and teaching you to give him way too much access to your mind. When he says that you can't trust your own mind he is implying that you CAN trust [i:f659a5ee17]his[/i:f659a5ee17] mind. I don't misunderstand it at all.