For several years on and off, I lived with a man who had grown up a Lubavitcher and was very surprised to find the term mentioned here on a forum regarding cults. I'd like to know more, but the information available on the internet is completely inaccessible to non-jews while the information available on RR is restricted to fairly cursory mentions on the messageboard, almost solely written by richardmgreen.

I wanted to post richardmgreen directly but am only a new member. Private posts are not available to me yet.

So, here is what I want to know:

1. Can the lubavitcher movement really be described as a cult given that as a movement it is totally inaccessible to non-jews...Which of the criteria for "cult status" does the lubavitch movement meet?

2. What relation is the Shoresh Yisai movement to the Lubavitcher movement and who is Hickman?

3. I wonder what richardmgreen can tell me about the personality of a lubavitcher and what he imagines living with an albeit wayward member would be like. (It was interesting for me...)

4. If he considers the movement dangerous/insidious, can richardmgreen tell me why?

I understand how difficult it may be to introduce such a novice to the concepts involved in Lubavitchism but would appreciate your attempts.

See [www.culteducation.com]

This is an archive of articles about Chabad Lubavitch.

Since the death of the last Lubavitcher Rebbe, a man many Lubavitchers thought was the messiah, the sect has become increasingly strange.

For the first time in its history this Hasidic sect apparently has no intention or plan to select a new leader. Some Lubavitchers seem to think that Schneerson will rise from the grave and return as "King Messiah."

Thanks for the link. I had come across that archive, actually. It is alot of information to digest so I best not speak too soon, but what struck me about it all is the absence of any controversy beyond intra-Judaist sect controversy. Of course, the group is a SECT (of Judaism) with controversial beliefs (that the messiah has...well...arisen) but is it really appropriate to list it here as a CULT?

I don't know the answer. I am just genuinely surprised to find it here on the website, especially having lived with an albeit wayward, non-practising Lubavitcher without cause to suspect the movement was anything other than, well, mainstream.

There are several very negative allusions to Lubavitch Judaism here on the messageboard. I am interested in hearing some corroborative evidence.

And I insist: I do not know very much at all and have no opinion one way or the other. This message is certainly not a challenge. Just genuinely interested.

All the groups listed or cited through the database are not "cults."

See [www.culteducation.com]

Only some have been called "cults," such as the Chabad Lubavitch.

The Chabad Lubavitch does seem to fit that description.

See [www.culteducation.com]

It was and is a "personality-driven" sect, focused upon and defined by the persona of one man, Rebbe Schneerson.

Like "Moonies" Lubavitchers believe their leader was/is the "messiah."

I have received many complaints from Jewish families about Chabad. Essentially, that their children were recruited and "brainwashed" by the movement, much like other complaints about groups called "cults."

Thank you.

I feel foolish: just because the controversy is intra-judaist controversy, need not mean it is not a cult, I of course can see.

I guess what most intrigues me about the movement is that it is so completely inaccessible to me. It seems like the kind of thing one must be born into rather than something one can adopt at any stage in life. But now I can see that is not true with regards the children of jewish families.

I will read your archive with interest.

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So, here is what I want to know:
See embedded answeres:
1. Can the lubavitcher movement really be described as a cult given that as a movement it is totally inaccessible to non-jews...Which of the criteria for "cult status" does the lubavitch movement meet?

First of all, Lubavitch is accessible to non-Jews and had a "Global Noahide Program". The announcement of the start of this program is on this site. Look up the words in quotes as the key words in a search.

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2. What relation is the Shoresh Yisai movement to the Lubavitcher movement and who is Hickman?

(richardmgreen's reply: Shoresh Yishai (Root of Jesse) was a Hebrew Christian cult that Chabad fought with some success on LI, NY. It had 2 centers: Hicksville, LI in the old 'St. John's Lutheran Church" building and also in East Meadow, LI in the old "Christ Lutheran" building.
Originally, I joined up before it became a cult. One year later, Pastor Jack Hickman, started to come up with a wild and crazy story about how he was really Jewish and was descended from the Abensur family of Spain who were noted Kabbalists. See my review on this site of "Confessions of a Jewish Cultbuster" by Rabbi Shea Hecht of Chabad. It centered on what happened primarily when I joined the cult. By the way, when I was there is was called Ben Yishai or "Sons of Jesse".)

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3. I wonder what richardmgreen can tell me about the personality of a lubavitcher and what he imagines living with an albeit wayward member would be like. (It was interesting for me...)

(richardmgreen's reply: Lubavitchers vary. It's not the general viewpoint of Chabad's mainstream that the Rebbe is either still alive or be resurrected. That's a minority view point based on Sanhedrin 98b on the bottom of the page of the Talmud. Rabbi Moshe Yess (www.rabbiyess.com) believes the Rebbe never died. Most Chabadnick's believe he was the "potential" messiah in his lifetime. Now that he's gone, so is his opportunity and ours for his being the final redeemer.

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Private posts are not available to me yet.


4. If he considers the movement dangerous/insidious, can richardmgreen tell me why?

(richardmgreen's reply: First of all Rabbi Schneerson's impact on Israeli politics and his blocking the land for peace deals that might have prevented many of the problems in the Mid East. He kept phone calling up the people in the Israeli gov't and kept telling them that bartering such would "endanger Jewish lives". And his Chasidim all of whom are "yes men" echo every thing he says like they can't do any thinking. Chabad has generals in the army and administers outreach to soldiers on the field. Unlike many Haredi groups, Chabad's people join the army in many cases. The impact he had on the Mid East can't be underestimated and through that, the world. Also, many non-Jews are concerned about his "Global Noahide" program. What do they think the relationship between Israel and the rest of the world will be. The Talmud says, and it's quoted in their "Bible" the "Tanya" that the "kindness of the nations of the world is but sin". Take it from there, OK?")

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I4. If he considers the movement dangerous/insidious, can richardmgreen tell me why?

(richardmgreen's reply: Chabad seeks actively to recruit Baalei Teshuva's or "returnees to Judaism. See the Chabad section called "An Overview of the Baalei Teshuva Movement" and also the documents on Chabad's outreach efforts. I know quite a few people, including myself,who wound up in marriages sponsored by Chabad that went sour. Some of my friends knew these girls for years before the got married (one of my old pals from the Rabbi Shlomo Carlebach movement) and the Rabbis turned her and probably her children into his enemies. They are now separated and maybe divorced by now. Some marriages get put together in 2 seconds flat and bomb out. They teach you some rudiments of Jewish laws of marital relations (Taharas Mishpacha) and then, you're married. And the marriages fail most of the time.
Futhermore, there's little work you can pick up in Crown Heights as a BT. Job opportunities are limited, the movement is insular. Like Satmar, Chabad is not a part of Agudat Israel. I went to COPE Institute which is run by AI to get training in computers when I had trouble finding work.
I also have a friend who's in Chabad, who has failing eyesight. The rabbis there who he works for don't give him much money for his work and he will not get medical, dental, etc. benefits from them. When his eyesight finally fails, he will wind up on the street. I relied on Chabad's mercy and I found they didn't have much in the final analysis.)Hope all this helped).