Current Page: 4 of 5
Re: The mystical forces that drove some of us to Krishna Consciousness
Posted by: facet ()
Date: May 05, 2021 02:08AM

Here is a quote from a longer read via the following link:

[newhumanist.org.uk]

It demonstrates well the scale of abuse and how it has been passed down the line straight from the top.

It may have already been quoted in one of the other threads.

Take care when reading the following quote as there are accounts of abuse that may be upsetting to read, know your limits.

Quote
From court documents lodged by Turley and reports from ISKCON itself, what happened during those years is horrifying. Children suffered broken noses, serious bruises and contusions, lost teeth from being beaten with clubs and fists and also from being kicked. A number had their ears slapped so severely that bleeding and loss of hearing occurred. Medical care was sometimes denied, even for malaria, hepatitis and broken bones. Children did not receive proper food and some report they 'were always hungry' and had to eat leftovers or insect-infested food. If they vomited they had to eat their own vomit; if they wet their beds they were forced to drink urine and wear soiled underwear on their heads. Apart from physical beatings they were also punished by being shut in closets, refrigerators or trash bins for hours, even days at a time. Some schools were filthy and overcrowded: children slept on the floor, often in sleeping bags. There was no TV, radio, toys or games. Some children were raped every day for years and there were arranged marriages between girls as young as eleven to men twice or thrice their age. The perpetrators of these crimes were none other than teachers, administrators, and, in some cases, ISKCON leaders. It was not uncommon for the children to be told they were being treated this way because it was their bad karma and they must have hurt a child in a past life. The leader of the group, Indian-born Sri Prabhupada, was told of the abuse as early as 1972 but evidently did nothing to stop it. After he died in 1977, leadership was passed on to eleven male disciples, called gurus, and the abuse continued. Nori Muster, former devotee and author of Betrayal of the Spirit, claims: 'If parents tried to speak up, the gurus either silenced them or kicked them out. Some parents just pulled their kids out and left the organisation. Also, many parents abused their children, since they were low on parenting skills and violence was a way of life in ISKCON.'


There is no mystical force that would take a person to abuse, no karma. Just an abuser who knows exactly what they are doing.

If anything, a strict and or heavy disciplined familial upbringing as a child makes krisna Consciousness, offshoots, and the myriad of other restrictive cult and cult like practices / groups seem attractive, normal, comfortable, safe, even medicinal, when they are in fact far far from it.

If abuse and / or heavy disciplined lifestyle is comfortable, if it is ok, I would most certainly give myself the time, and the space with loving attention to honestly ask myself why.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2021 02:10AM by facet.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: The mystical forces that drove some of us to Krishna Consciousness
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: May 05, 2021 10:37AM

facet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is a quote from a longer read via the
> following link:
>
> [newhumanist.org.uk]
>
> It demonstrates well the scale of abuse and how it
> has been passed down the line straight from the
> top.
>
> It may have already been quoted in one of the
> other threads.
>
> Take care when reading the following quote as
> there are accounts of abuse that may be upsetting
> to read, know your limits.
>
>
Quote
From court documents lodged by Turley and
> reports from ISKCON itself, what happened during
> those years is horrifying. Children suffered
> broken noses, serious bruises and contusions, lost
> teeth from being beaten with clubs and fists and
> also from being kicked. A number had their ears
> slapped so severely that bleeding and loss of
> hearing occurred. Medical care was sometimes
> denied, even for malaria, hepatitis and broken
> bones. Children did not receive proper food and
> some report they 'were always hungry' and had to
> eat leftovers or insect-infested food. If they
> vomited they had to eat their own vomit; if they
> wet their beds they were forced to drink urine and
> wear soiled underwear on their heads. Apart from
> physical beatings they were also punished by being
> shut in closets, refrigerators or trash bins for
> hours, even days at a time. Some schools were
> filthy and overcrowded: children slept on the
> floor, often in sleeping bags. There was no TV,
> radio, toys or games. Some children were raped
> every day for years and there were arranged
> marriages between girls as young as eleven to men
> twice or thrice their age. The perpetrators of
> these crimes were none other than teachers,
> administrators, and, in some cases, ISKCON
> leaders. It was not uncommon for the children to
> be told they were being treated this way because
> it was their bad karma and they must have hurt a
> child in a past life. The leader of the group,
> Indian-born Sri Prabhupada, was told of the abuse
> as early as 1972 but evidently did nothing to stop
> it. After he died in 1977, leadership was passed
> on to eleven male disciples, called gurus, and the
> abuse continued. Nori Muster, former devotee and
> author of Betrayal of the Spirit, claims: 'If
> parents tried to speak up, the gurus either
> silenced them or kicked them out. Some parents
> just pulled their kids out and left the
> organisation. Also, many parents abused their
> children, since they were low on parenting skills
> and violence was a way of life in ISKCON.'

>
>


First of all, facet: I really do not think it is fair to blame everything on Prabhupada himself. They surrounded him, then they isolated him, and some say they eventually killed him (I personally do not believe this to be so, though it may be that case).

Next: that's all very terrible, and I am not happy about any of it. However, none (or at least most) of the persons involved in these tragedies is involved in ISKCON any more. They've mostly all been excommunicated, have left ISKCON, or are deceased today.

Lastly: these things happened many years, decades ago. What have they to do with me and my sadhana, fifty-odd years later, in 2021?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2021 10:38AM by The Whirlwind.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: The mystical forces that drove some of us to Krishna Consciousness
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: May 05, 2021 09:26PM

Whirlwind what are you even talking about? I have never been involved with Iskcon per se. I was involved with an OFFSHOOT of Iskcon.
Did you miss the word offshoot?
Now you are attacking me personally. Like you have nothing better to do?
Make your own post defending Iskcon rather than criticizing me for exposing my own group: Science of Identity.
If you have missed it, my group and my guru has the most views on this forum.
You can imgine I am far from being the only person who has something negative to share. There are many more people to attack if you feel like it.
The suffering I endured in their hands. Leaving a path that was very dear to me.
A path I thought I would follow till the end of the life of this body.
Ending up in hellish conditions... Loss of faith....
You have absolutley no clue who I am and my personal relation with Krishna.
My so called guru spent his whole life bashing and trashing Iskcon. Telling us to stay the hell away from it.
It took me a while to deprogram myself from that blanket view on Iskcon and see that they also have plenty of sincere and kind souls in the institution.
I am not even discouraging people from joining Isckon or other Sangas.
I am just warning them to watch out for the dangers I was exposed to.
I mny times fairly stated that my years with the group were also filled with many good memories.
I did not come onto this forum in order to waste my energy arguing with others.
I have given enough energy trying to warn people against the “negative” sides of my group.
I am here to heal from my own experiences as well as to warn people from the tactics used to manipulate sincere souls.
I am not here to please nor diplease anyone.
The day you find me on a DEVOTEE forum attacking Vaishnavism, then I give you the green light to try point a sword at me.
If my posts trigger you in a wrong way, I cannot take responsibility for it.
I don’t have a vicious agenda.
When I wrote personally to my own group, I told them that I am sorry they practice such a nice philospohy in an atmosphere of fear.
As I said it, maybe make a different post defending your point of views instead of finding fault with my views.
I am really sorry that some non sensical people use the Krishna Consciousness to hurt and mislead people.
I would have done the same if my guru was using the bible to manipulate people.
There is always negative mixed with the positive.
This group is not about glorifying the positive sides of cultish groups.
Groups have NOTHING TO DO with the philosphy itself. And yes I have not much good things to say about my group which you DO NOT EVEN KNOW.
My so called guru and the mindless followers have been using the Vedas to impose a totalitarian, fear based, free labor community.
You want me to stay quite about it all?
No my friend. I have walked on the Krishna, offenses eggshelss for decades.
Will not do it in here.
If you are offended by my views, absolutely nothing forces you to read my posts.
If my posts truly go against the rules of the forum, the admin can very well take them down.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: The mystical forces that drove some of us to Krishna Consciousness
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: May 05, 2021 09:39PM

Truth Wins, I have not "attacked" you, personally or otherwise. I do not know you, or anything about you other than your experiences in your old group. I even said that I do not blame you for feeling hard done by.

The name of this thread it "The mystical forces that drove some of us to Krishna Consciousness" and not "The mystical forces that drove some of us to Science of Identity Foundation".

You write of your experience in Krishna Consciousness, and I write of mine. If you feel attacked, then I'm sorry. It's not personal.

"I am really sorry that some non sensical people use the Krishna Consciousness to hurt and mislead people."

Me too, very much so. Krishna Consciousness is a great thing, in my opinion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2021 09:41PM by The Whirlwind.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: The mystical forces that drove some of us to Krishna Consciousness
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: May 05, 2021 10:12PM

PS, Truth Wins: if I am "attacking" anybody, then it would be facet, who asks questions which reveal a real ignorance of the matters at hand, and who seems to be here only to make Krishna Consciousness (and those who preach it) look and sound bad. But even then, it's not a "personal attack" against facet, not an "ad hominem" attack. For it to be an ad hominem attack, I'd have to disparage facet's character and/or intelligence, which I never did. I only "attacked" facet's ignorance of the subject matter.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2021 10:13PM by The Whirlwind.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: The mystical forces that drove some of us to Krishna Consciousness
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: May 05, 2021 10:21PM

The Sciense of Identity teaches Krishna Consciousness. They do not teach Scientology.
We have the picture of AC Bhaktivedanta on the altar. He is considered our grandfather spiritual teacher.
We read his books and follow the same regulative principles.
My ex guru is a disciple of ACB. Many of his senior disciples were intiated by ACB.
So I am not lightly using the word K Consciousness just for fun.
The forces led me to Krishna Consciousness. I could have very well been directed to Iskcon, Narayna Maharaja... and many sangas who are linked to these same teachings.
What attracted me to stay was not the guru or the follower. It was the holy names, the teachings, the mystical experiences I was given by the same dieties you worship.
I have also been heavily attacked by the same forces.
Experiences that I will just keep to myself and do not even belong in scifi movies.
I use the word K Consciousness because I am sure that other people have had the same experiences leading them to other not so holy Vaishnava gurus.
And in all honesty, I did not create the Iskcon nasty gurus who took over after ACB left the planet. Iskcon has created its own bad reputation.
I have every right to use the word Krishna Consciousness because these are the deities that I related to for years and bowed down to.
I have celebrated the same Appearance days and fasted the same amount of times as you guys.
It is not like am trying to attract views to make money using the word Krishna consciousness.
You say you did not attack me?
I did not take your words as a bouquet of roses.
Maybe think about the words you use more carefully.

“This is called the "Cult Education Forum", not the "Try to make groups you don't like look bad forum". I am here to educate people with respect to a group about which you have nothing good to say, owing to your own experiences with it. I do not blame you, either. I've been abused within ISKCON, myself, but I still chant and refrain from eating meat. And I agree fully, with your point about beliefs versus behaviors. This is the basis on which groups are to be judged, you know, on the basis of belief versus behavior”.

You obviously had some negative experiences yourself with Iskcon. So not sure what your problem is with my posts.
My relation with Krishna, be it good or bad is also mine. Mine alone.
Your perosnal experiences and views on the WHOLE thing belongs to you alone.
Please let me express myself freely both about my ISKCON offshoot group as well as my own relation to the philosphy or the deities.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: The mystical forces that drove some of us to Krishna Consciousness
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: May 05, 2021 10:26PM

Let's be kind to each other.

It takes a lot of risk to create a discussion about very personal private experiences of heart, of soul, that invite a person into a spiritual tradition and its communities and devotional practices.

(Apologies if I misunderstand anything)

Krishna Consciousness

When do we say this to refer to our personal encounter with God?

When are we using it to refer to the tradition and doctrine of the Chaitanya Vaishnava sect?

When are we using it to refer to the teachings of a sect within Chaitanya Vaishnava sect, such as International Society of Krishna Consciousness?

Language is a clumsy thing, making it all too easy to confuse a personal encounter with God with the all too human and often abusive organizations that preserve the valuable resources of a tradition and its devotional practices, both communal and private.

This discussion is special. I hope we can all stay friendly.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: The mystical forces that drove some of us to Krishna Consciousness
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: May 05, 2021 10:29PM

"Iskcon has created its own bad reputation."

You got that right. ISKCON brought it on itself. I think I've made my opinion of ISKCON clear here, and am hardly an apologist for them. It's pretty much a Hindu cult.

And with that, Truth Wins, I bid you a good day. Peace be with you.

vancha-kalpatarubhyash cha
kripa-sindhubhya eva cha
patitanam pavanebhyo
vaishnavebhyo namo namaha




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2021 10:29PM by The Whirlwind.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: The mystical forces that drove some of us to Krishna Consciousness
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: May 05, 2021 10:39PM

PS: this is a very important point, so I will repeat it...Prabhupada was not omniscient with respect to the material world and all that goes on in it, and he never claimed to be.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: The mystical forces that drove some of us to Krishna Consciousness
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: May 06, 2021 05:20AM

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Sciense of Identity teaches Krishna
> Consciousness. They do not teach Scientology.

"Krishna Consciousness" is not limited to any organization, institution, or tradition of human origin. Neither is guru. No one organization or institution has a monopoly on "Krishna Consciousness" and as a matter of fact no set of bona fide Scriptures does either. In a sense, one could preach "Krishna Consciousness" (as in, the principles of service performed in loving devotion to the all-attractive Personality of Godhead) from the Bible, the Qur'an, the Torah, or what have you without ever even saying the word "Krishna".

Though, we of course hold the Name "Krishna" to be the topmost and most intimate Name of God. However, "Krishna" is A Name of God, and not THE Name of God.

Again: I am expressing all of this by way of explanation, but not in the interest of preaching anything to anybody, corboy. It's a non-sectarian spiritual philosophy, but somehow they've turned it into a Hindu sect (or a worst, a Hindu cult).



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2021 05:24AM by The Whirlwind.

Options: ReplyQuote
Current Page: 4 of 5


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.