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Re: Trungpa - meditation as toxic cognitive behavioral therapy?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 04, 2017 10:18PM

I took a look through Butterfield's Double Mirror and am not quite sure.

I got the impression that Butterfield mostly spent time at Trungpa's center in Vermont, which was first named Vajradatu (Tail of the Tiger)
and is now Karme Choling.

Trungpa was cremated there, and some of what Butterfield writes sounds
as though he was there, doing doing his own ngondro practice, at that time.


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If you were a child parenting yr family you'd parent Trungpa
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 04, 2017 11:01PM

Because of many reports that a high number of Trungpa's disciples grew up in
troubled families, this article, from The Atlantic, may be very illuminating.

The article focuses on how siblings turn to each other for support when
the parents are unrealiable.

*** Perhaps disciples of an alcoholic unpredictable guru bond with each other
in a similarly intense manner.

Disciples of Trungpa may have become trauma bonded to each other, as well as to Trungpa.

Losing those peer relationships would have felt agonizing.

It is significant that Butterfield hung onto friendships he had with non
Trungpa disciples -- what Trungpa called 'heretics'. This may have enabled B to question the entire process.

A guru who promises to empower you via Shambhala Training will appeal to
that part of us that felt helpless and craves empowerment.

Making excuses for a drunken tantra master who fails to show up on time
is just like making excuses for a drunken parent who fails again and again to
show up for your school events.

Both entail promises, promises, both entail intimate betrayal, both leave you making excuses to yourself that the alcoholic parent and screwed up guru are not really betraying you -- you are the one who is unloveable or ego driven
for feeling disappointed and angry at them....

When Kids Have to Act Like Parents, It Affects Them for Life

Some people who have to be responsible for their siblings or parents as children grow up to be compulsive caretakers.



nd if a child’s early experiences at home consisted of making sure everyone else’s needs were met, then the “child doesn’t feel seen.”

This sense of responsibility and compulsive caretaking can follow them into future relationships as well. “You tend to project it onto other people in your life,” Rosenfeld says. This isn’t surprising, claims Jenny Macfie, an associate director of clinical training at the University of Tennessee and another prominent parentification researcher, as “adults who report role confusion in their childhoods may have difficulty with their identity development,” and this in turn, can affect a person’s romantic relationships.

“It’s very easy for me to get into caretaking roles with people who basically exploit my nature.”

For the first half of her marriage, Rosenfeld found herself regularly putting her partner’s needs ahead of her own—essentially mirroring her childhood role.

Others echoed this experience; Kiesel says she struggles with learning how to establish firm boundaries with partners and believes this is directly tied to caring for her brother at a young age. Similarly, Rene says finding the right balance between expectation and autonomy has been a constant problem in her relationships. She’d like to find a partner but has doubts. “It’s very easy for me to get into caretaking roles with people who basically exploit my nature.”


Turning the Wheel


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2017 11:05PM by corboy.

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Some quotes from Trungpa student memoir by Butterfield
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: January 22, 2018 02:17AM

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Trungpa family values
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 05, 2018 08:26AM

Butterfield was describing Trungpa's center in Naropa, Colorado, and Trungpa's other center in Vermont. I think the Vermont center was called Vajradatu, Tail of the Tiger.

New trouble in Shambhala- more allegations of abuse - Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche

Sakyong Mipham is Trungpa's oldest son and the head of Shambala.


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Re: Trungpa family values
Posted by: bakkagirl ()
Date: July 05, 2018 09:03PM

This is neither here, nor there, but having lived in the mystical East for most of my adult life, I can report that the folks I find most entranced by eastern mysticism and meditative arts are Westerners.

Have I ever met a lay Japanese who meditates, or talks about it. No, I have not.

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Re: Noticing lapses is not the same as recognizing abuse
Posted by: bakkagirl ()
Date: July 05, 2018 09:51PM

corboy, I have had similar experiences, though these relate more to abuse in the workplace -- not the least bit uncommon in Japan.

I would say, though, that I had help in not seeing patterns of persistent abuse of myself, and of other employees.

Here is my finding on this:

There is a cultural tendency in Japan to discount the experience of individuals, and to hammer down the complaining 'nail', even though the nail is articulating what everyone is thinking and saying behind closed doors. The abuse is 'normalized' and tolerated.

In attempting to discuss this with a 'therapist', I found the onus was shifted on me for tolerating the abuse. I was asked to consider what family dynamics predisposed me to tolerate abuse.

Both approaches 'normalize' abuse.

Discuss the abuse with a lawyer, or a labor representative, it is just 'abuse'.

I do continue to wonder if the mental health treatment community is complicit, sometimes, in abetting abuse by attributing, as Landmark trainers do, culpability for the abuse to the abused.

I have seen a LOT of this.


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