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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: February 03, 2019 05:51AM

Thanks for your insights, Bubbaboy,

I watched part of the video you posted... very interesting. The presenter/teacher in the video seemed extremely determined to get his point across! I could see how he would appeal to some people... yes.

I think different personalities are attracted to different teachers.

But the whole non-dual concept is strange to me and I really, deeply question the ideas that non-dual teachers are putting forward, in general.

After all, if we don't exist and there is nothing to aspire to, or learn or anything, then why would these teachers bother having a web-site and a Youtube channel and very heated discussions? It would all be pointless.

Obviously, they must believe that the Internet exists, that Youtube exists and there are people out there who exist, who want to watch them speak, hear their message or whatever? So they are putting themselves in the ultimate double bind. They are affirming their very existence in order to tell us we don't exist!

It's silly.

On the official Mooji Sangha Facebook page, under the video where Moo acts very vague and denies all allegations of everything he has ever done -

One clever cult follower has written: "Mooji doesn't exist."


If only it were so......

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: zizlz ()
Date: February 03, 2019 06:41AM

I agree, Sahara71. That's the problem with Neo-Advaita. They took some parts from Advaita Vedanta but left out other (crucial) parts, so the Neo-Advaita teaching is incomplete and doesn't make sense. To quote a relevant part of James Swartz's critique of Neo-Advaita:

Quote

This teaching causes a problem because it does not take experience into account. So you either have to deny the existence of experience, which can only take place in duality, or modify the teaching. You cannot deny the existence of experience —although Neo-Advaita does its level best— because it exists.

You can find the whole article here: [www.scribd.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2019 06:42AM by zizlz.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: February 03, 2019 07:44AM

Yes, exactly, Zizlz,

Neo-Advaita makes no sense at all... and this is at the very heart of the problem we have here with Tony Moo. A certain proportion of the general population are attracted to ideas that make no sense!!

Because these ideas can be manipulated and you can read into them anything you want to read into them. It suits a certain type of person who is either rebellious, unhinged, adventurous/curious, very tired, alienated or just perhaps a very creative thinker- very open and receptive.

You listen to this confusing, vague, non-sensible, non-dual message when it is delivered in a soft, slow voice and you sort of disassociate from reality a bit.

Don't forget, confusing people is recognized as a successful trance induction technique.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: bubbaboy ()
Date: February 03, 2019 09:52AM

The truth is that nonduel teachings do not make logical sense. I'm not sure if I can explain it but I will try. When it is said that you do not exist, it is not referring to your physical self. What it is referring to is the "me" that you think you are. This "me" is the illusion. So called enlightenment is when you see that this "me" is not real. Many call this "me" the ego. The way Jim describes it is at a very young age, a tension forms in the body and creates a sense of Here, then, I Am Here. This tension is undetectable.

What happen is that recognitions can occur, giving you a glimpse/insight as to what really IS. There are no words to describe what IS. There sre also glimpses of how the me is built so to speak. These glimpses deconstruct the conditioning causing the tension to release. It is only when the tension releases that it is detectable. The sense of a "me" can fall away partially or completely. There is also no way to describe not having a sense of "me".

I am not just repeating what he says, I am also speaking from experience. The big recognition happened when I was listening to Papaji. I can't say that he is the reason for it because just like some of you it was not making sense to me, then boom, it just happened. Since there is not much of Papaji online I found Mooji and started listening to him.

It wasn't until I found Jim that it seemed to be happening very quick. I watched a bunch of his videos when I discovered him one weekend. When I went back to work I noticed I could hardly walk. People that used to seem super slow to me felt as if they were running now. I could not keep up. I was not sure what was going on. It was a few days later that I found his video where he first talks about the tension and what happens when it falls away. I kept having small little glimpses here and there furthering the deconstruction of the "me".

I'm sure this seems far fetched and hard to swallow for some, but that's OK. At one time I thought all of this was a bunch of BS too.

[Moderator note: Please don't promote other teachers with links on this thread. This thread is specifically about Mooji not anything else.]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2019 11:55PM by rrmoderator.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: PapajisaysNO ()
Date: February 03, 2019 01:37PM

[www.google.com]

Learn here about how manipulators work. Moo uses these.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: zizlz ()
Date: February 03, 2019 04:44PM

Bubbaboy, I recommend you look into traditional Advaita Vedanta. You say "The truth is that nonduel teachings do not make logical sense" but the truth is they make perfect logical sense when you get the whole teaching (advaita vedanta) instead of an incomplete teaching (neo-advaita). Advaita Vedanta also teaches how to fully integrate the shift of perspective that is awakening so that it's not just glimpses but becomes permanent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2019 04:45PM by zizlz.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: atta_dipa ()
Date: February 03, 2019 08:50PM

Glad to have found this conversation continuing after stumbling upon the r/meditation and r/mooji saga. Wrote to Sahara71, and will post it here again in case someone else here might find the info useful.

I wanted to send a note and suggest you should consider emailing Be Scofield. She's an investigative journalist and has her own online publication The Guru [https://gurumag.com/about-the-guru/] where she has exposés on prominent figures like Teal Swan (https://gurumag.com/the-gucci-guru-inside-teal-swans-posh-cult/), Bentinho Massaro (https://gurumag.com/tech-bro-guru-inside-the-sedona-cult-of-bentinho-massaro/) Andrew Cohen (https://gurumag.com/integral-abuse-andrew-cohen-the-culture-of-evolutionary-enlightenment/) and many other 'gurus' [Swami Vivekananda Saraswati (https://gurumag.com/agama-yoga-founder-flees-amidst-sexual-assault-accusations/) ] She seems a good fit for this endeavor.

(Advice most appreciated. Posting contact information is, however against guidelines for CEI message board. Interested persons should read Be Scofield's published material and locate contact information at those sources. Mods)

I will continue to follow the saga and am with you all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2019 11:00PM by corboy.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Horowitz ()
Date: February 03, 2019 09:16PM

Mooji satsangs have been held at Swatantranand Ashram, which is on the west side of Ganga, across the river and south of the Swarg Ashram area. During February and March, Rishikesh is the host to two international yoga events. One is in the Parmath ashram, the other is a hotel city. In last five years, Mooji has been there at this time to drew the attention of the tourists and other visitors. He put his board on a street with his guru name, dressed like an Indian guru, in the hall, he set up an arranged cultic pedestial masquerade, but this year, I guess the whole Monte Sahaja population must move there to support Mooji’s damaged reputation, it will be expensive…..

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 03, 2019 10:50PM

Guys, be careful about any teacher you get hopeful about on Youtube.

I looked at the website for the teacher Bubbaboy mentions.

Says the teaching is not based on authority.

"This sharing has no authority. So this up here is not telling anyone anything. There's nothing that needs to be said. This is a response to the apparent question of the experience, that something needs to happen. The answer is: "No, there's nothing that needs to happen."

Yet he has retreats in Austria,Netherlands, Germany, Paris and a residential at Devon. Nice venues, too. Very nice. Devon retreat is at a manor house.

How many seekers after truth can afford plane fare and fees for all this?

[www.simply-this.com]

San Rafael is in Marin County, Northern California. Perfect venue. Lots of advaita and New Age activity there. Gangaji does many events at San Rafael at Santa Sabina.

If people get what they need and do not need Jim's presence and get on with their own lives, not a problem.

It is when a teacher allows and encourages students to clump around him (or her)
like mussels on a wharf piling, that a situation is created that is more than
any human leader's nervous system can bear.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2019 11:10PM by corboy.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: zizlz ()
Date: February 04, 2019 01:06AM

Quote
bubbaboy
The whole investment in a progressive path goes on feeding the story of 'me' attaining something.

IMO neo-advaitins argue against their own misunderstanding of what a progressive path is.

You already are awareness, Brahman, or however you want to call it. So you can not become it. But you can unentangle the mistaken identification with the 'me'. This is done through a purification of one's habituual thoughts, emotions and actions. Only a purified mind can not be deluded into mistaken identification.

Whether a moment of full recognition of the true nature of self and reality happens before or after this process of purification, the purification needs to happen anyway in order for the recognition to become permanent. So only already purified minds (which are rare) don't need the purification process.

This is misunderstood by many people who get an awakening experience. They think they have arrived, they are now enlightened. But they fall right back into their habitual identification with the 'me'. They may even become successful gurus. But they're not awakened. They may be able to guide their followers into a temporary awakening experience, but they can't teach how to make it permanent, since they don't know.

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