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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Constantin ()
Date: July 02, 2019 04:49PM

greeetings all,

Very funny to read again about that poor Herron
it seems that Mo only really cares about his fishes, there are countless ponds around the place, every corner has fish. Maybe he likes his disciples just like the fish, still swimming around quietly, not talking back, not saying anything, as long as you keep feeding them. looking pretty.
I really have to laugh about this and other things since Mo has surrounded himself with ego trippers who cloak themselves with spiritual paper mache. They will destroy you and leave you penniless, Use you and leave you. Moo caters specially for people with money gives them special treatment and he does not respond to any of the allegation and he reminds me more more of trump or such, white washing and gas lighting like there is nothing at all wrong about this at all.
beware, CL

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: July 03, 2019 06:01AM

Hi Constantin,

It is good to hear from you again, could you fill us in on more details about what is now happening at Monte Sahaja?
Can you tell us anything about the special treatment that people who have money receive from Moo? How does he go about finding out how much people have and what does he do once they stop donating?

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: July 03, 2019 07:04AM

The latest video material released by the Moo group, which seems to be an excerpt taken from the recent Lisbon intensive:

[mooji.tv]

An interesting trance sequence begins at 3.20, where Moo says:

"Someone looking from here is also seen. The intention is seen. If there is an identity that is also seen- without fuss. It is seen without even searching. Whatever it is that you take yourself to be -it is perceived. And by saying it is perceived, look no further- don’t even look even at that, because it is only a cloud passing also. That from even seeing is seen. That by whose light even the act of perceiving, the function of perceiving is also perceived. Don’t imagine. If you imagine it is already too late. Your imagining, your imagination, and what you imagine are all seen. It is not a riddle."

Ehh, actually Tony, that does kind of sound like a riddle!!

Can anyone interpret this passage for us? Does it even mean anything?

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 03, 2019 10:59AM

(What follows are hunches, guesses on Corboy's part)


Don't even try to look for 'meaning' in that quotation. Looking for meaning in stuff like that how we sfall down
the rabbit hole of Moo' Wonderland.

That paragraph is littered with grammatical violations. That's the tip off.


First look at the repetitions. This is not normal utterance.

Lets look at the use of verbs and of 'also' See how the 'also' links these lines of text together.

The first line has these repetitions.

(Someone looking) seen seen also seen seen

Quote

"Someone looking** from here is also seen. The intention is seen. If there is an identity that is also seen- without fuss. It is seen without even searching.

Line 2 we have this:

perceived perceived look look also

Whatever it is that you take yourself to be -it is perceived. And by saying it is perceived, look no further- don’t even look even at that, because it is only a cloud passing also.

(Corboy: perceived by ...by whom? Where is your reference point?) That passing cloud...the reference point that gives you your sense of identity is passing away.)

Line 3

seeing seen perceiving also perceived

That from even seeing* is seen. That by whose light even the act of perceiving, the function of perceiving is also perceived*.

Line 4

imagine imagine imagining imagination imagine seen

Don’t *imagine*. If you *imagine* it is already too late. Your *imagining*, your *imagination*, and what you *imagine* are all seen. It is not a riddle."


Line 5

(Someone looking) also seen

"Someone looking from here is also seen"

The first line and the last line both begin with "Someone looking". This ties the quotation into a neat package, brackets it as a unit. The word "also' has recurred in every line, line 1 through line 5.

Lets look at the patterning.

Line 1 (Someone looking) seen seen also seen seen

Line 2 perceived perceived look look also

Line 3 seeing seen perceiving also perceived

Line 4 imagine imagine imagining imagination imagine seen

Line 5 (Someone looking) also seen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2019 11:19AM by corboy.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: July 03, 2019 02:06PM

Yes, absolutely Corby!

Your interpretation is excellent. Here is my simplified interpretation of Moo-speak:

Line 1: Trance, trance.... trance and trance.
Line 2: more trance
Line 3: trance, trancy-trance, trance, oh, also trance
Line 4: more of the same....

lol :)

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Dr. Milton Erickson describes the Confusion Technique,
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 03, 2019 07:56PM

Some gems from Google.

This article contains many quotations from Milton Erickson's early article on Confusion Technique of trance induction. The Anticult, who in 2008 gave lessons to CEI message board about methods of trance induction, told us about the work of Milton Erickson, who created innovative methods of trance induction - methods where it is unnecessary to put the subject to sleep.

Dr. Erickson used these methods for therapeutic purposes. Too many are now using these methods for self gain.

Corboy is going to take us from Moojibaba on a brief journey. Corboy is temporarily diverting the discussion toward L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology.

L. Ron Hubbard was aware of Milton Erickson's work as far back as 1950. It was from L. Ron Hubbard that several commercial gurus learned confusion technique and have exported this material into the guru business. Among these persons were Adi Da (Da Free John) and Werner Erhard, who created est, The Forum and Landmark Education, which in turn have inspired many many imitators.

L. Ron Hubbard published many books and with some effort it would have been possible to obtain his advanced training materials. Rajneesh was an avid reader and may well have found a way to learn about Milton Erickson, and perhaps got hold of Hubbard's material.

This item is from an expose site for Scientology. It gives many citations of Erickson's trance methods.

[alerma.powweb.com]

Here is one quote from the article.

Quote

More excerpts about the Confusion Technique from the book,
The Letters of Milton Erickson

"Important Names in Hypnosis"
p 184

Letter to Andre Weitzenhoffer
circa 1963

I wrote this hastily last night. It can properly be filled out. Stored away, I have many old manuscripts, starting with such ideas as "If your left hand were your right hand, then your right hand wouldn't be your right hand. Instead your right hand would be your left hand, and you right-hand, left hand pants pocket would be your right hand pants pocket. But that would put it on your other leg." (I trust, merely trust, that you followed me without difficulty.)

You can start a confusion technique with literally anything; for example, that chair (1) is there (1) and that chair (2) (pointing to another) is there (2). And where is there, and if that chair (1) isn't there (2), and that chair (2) isn't there (1), tilting the head slightly to direct the subject's gaze, but we may talk about yesterday instead of today, but last year has so many yesterdays.

It's really simple. Keep time, particularly present, recent and remote past, in mind as you say obviously factual things, but without leaving your subject time to catch his breath or to interrupt, or to reach any clear understanding. Then when you offer a clear understandable idea, he grabs it and holds on for dear life, even if he has to regress to do it.

In any event, on the yellow sheet is a crude rushed paper I wrote last night after I got ready for bed.

Should it be worked up? SHould I do it? I wish you would collaborate because my rapidity if shifting ideas on papers like this tends to ruin them and I feel that I need your clarity of thought.

Sincerely,
Milton (Erickson)

P.S. Betty (Dr. Erickson's wife) can't stand to read this material. She has the reaction of being so irritated that she escapes into a trance - so do others - and some laboriously follow along and fo into a trance. And when people get too irritated, I shift into another technique, which they gladly accept.

P.S. by Betty. Milton is wrong when he says I escape into a trance! Some subjects may react that way, but the technique irritates me so that I refuse to cooperate in any way. I leave the room if possible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2019 08:04PM by corboy.

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Re: Dr. Milton Erickson describes the Confusion Technique,
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 03, 2019 08:16PM

Basic Introduction To Hypnosis In Scientology

[mbnest.blogspot.com]

The Mockingbird site has additional articles on methods of confusion used by L Ron Hubbard in Scientology.



Then, let us ask if we have seen these same methods, this 'tech' used by persons in settings other than Scientology, ahem.

L.Ron Hubbard and those who learned from him, were the earliest on record to appropriate Milton Erickson's medical trance methods and utilize them for selfish purposes.

At Esalen, a New Age think tank in California, Milton Erickson's methods were studied and appropriated by Bandler and Grinder in the late 1960s and early 1970s. They created neuro linguistic programming and Erickson's powerful methods became yet more widely dispersed.

As a result, spiritual seekers desperately need to learn discernment.

Otherwise, how do we know if someone is leading a satsang, a gathering of the pure, or a trance driven gathering of the dazed and confused that is called a satsang but is a counterfeit satsang?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2019 08:18PM by corboy.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: July 04, 2019 07:04AM

Corboy,

In answer to your question - most people would not know that they are experiencing trance. I had no idea. Trance induction works particularly well on people who have logical, analytical brains. A pause in logical thinking can feel like a genuine respite to people who are used to analytical thinking. It can feel extremely pleasant.

And why would you suspect anything untoward? It's only nice, harmless 'peace and love' kind of stuff, how could it possibly be harmful?

It's only after weeks and weeks of it, when you realize that you are losing interest in other things, that you begin to have doubts. Then you question your doubts.... you think, of course I would lose interest in other things.... I am becoming more 'spiritual'.

No, you are becoming spaced-out and unresponsive!

In the Moo video I shared, the man from the satsung audience who Moo is speaking to says something like "Who I am is a fabrication, it is a lie." (at 11.55) But Moo does not correct the man. Moo lets the man denigrate his own identity like that! Advaita Vedanta does not teach us that "who we are is a lie." That is incorrect. Moo transgressed his duty of care to that man, by not correcting him.

[mooji.tv]


Moo wants people to let go of their identities. After a bit more trance, the man then tells Moo that he wants to come to Monte Sahaja. Well, of course he does, because he has nothing else in his life, if his life is a 'lie'.

Moo gets another recruit.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2019 07:12AM by Sahara71.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Valma ()
Date: July 04, 2019 12:20PM

Great points Sahara71!
Following the reasoning, if we have to let go of our identities, if the mind is the number one enemy for a spiritual speaker to the point that people in satsangs speak of themselves in the 3rd person to presumably make a point they are not the person, why then does the Master have at his side in public satsangs a picture of his father and mother? Is that not bringing the personal back on stage? Would not seekers be confused unless they consent to a personality cult for their master? I never saw an Advaita teacher, let alone a Zen master, put pictures of their parents at their side whilst giving public talks. Yet Mr Mooji is publicly advertised as a great Vedanta and Zen master! Perhaps these pictures should be taken away if he wants to be credible?

See Master with pictures on his right and left at 1hour 08’47 of the latest Lisbon video posted by Sahara71.

A fresh inquisitive seeker will want to know who are the people on the pictures on the other side: it is Papaji, the one he calls his guru and the sage Ramana Maharshi. Let us see how Mr Mooji is a worthy representative of Ramana’s hightest teaching, not just in words but in actions of life. And let us put aside the fact that there is in fact no Ramana lineage as such.

There are countless examples of the great love and respect Ramana had for wild animals in particular. When one of them would cause trouble in his ashram, he usually would have a conversation with them, and the creature would withdraw. Why did not Mr Moo do the same? Instead we hear he gave orders to shoot the mother heron in Monte Sahaja. How can he still have a picture of Ramana at his side when he is not a true representative of the high standard Ramana was exemplifying in his life? What about the three young female servants who are around him 24/7 ready to serve his every need, let alone bodyguards? Ramana would never have accepted such, he was always keen on doing things on his own and only accepted help when he physically could not do otherwise. Ramana was by his very daily life a teaching and inspiration for many. Can it be said the same of Mooji? Is therefore a picture of Ramana beside him appropriate not to say that it is overtly deceptive?

How can anyone not be confused by the accumulation of many details that do not fit the claims made by the organization sustaining the Moo project.


Hello Constantin, did I miss your replies to Sahara71 questions above? I don’t seem to have seen them as yet.Thank you in advance for your input.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 04, 2019 09:25PM

"A pause in logical thinking can feel like a genuine respite to people who are used to analytical thinking. It can feel extremely pleasant."

Sahara71

In the old days, if bent on mischief or worse, you'd give someone a Mickey Finn - slip a sedative into their whiskey.

In those first stages of relaxation inebriation, the victim would not believe it if a well meaning friend were to say, you're being poisoned.

The victim wouldn't feel poisoned at all. He or she would feel much needed relaxation after a hard day's work.

Only later would they wake up to find themselves without their money, in a strange bed or trapped aboard a ship miles from land.

Those of us seeking satsangs need to know which are genuine and which satsangs contain sedatives.

Sahara gave us a valuable clue to how this works.

Quote

most people would not know that they are experiencing trance. I had no idea. Trance induction works particularly well on people who have logical, analytical brains. A pause in logical thinking can feel like a genuine respite to people who are used to analytical thinking. It can feel extremely pleasant.

And why would you suspect anything untoward? It's only nice, harmless 'peace and love' kind of stuff, how could it possibly be harmful?

It's only after weeks and weeks of it, when you realize that you are losing interest in other things, that you begin to have doubts. Then you question your doubts.... you think, of course I would lose interest in other things.... I am becoming more 'spiritual'.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2019 09:27PM by corboy.

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