Current Page: 20 of 30
Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)
Posted by: liminal ()
Date: April 16, 2016 09:51AM

A former member says Trinity and Marc patronized and shamed people. "They actively fostered secrecy and lack of transparency".

Marc appointed himself chief medicine man and tried to tightly regulate workers. Marc claimed that he could judge a worker's "high or low vibration" and that he would restrict their behavior accordingly. Marc expected workers to follow his 6 or 7 pages of rules.

Former workers are relating some concerning stories, yet often in the next breath they claim that everything will be fine and that Trinity and Marc aren't that bad after all.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: April 16, 2016 11:42AM

Are Trinity and Guss aware that many places in Peru are high altitude (8,000 feet?

If their event is in such a location, are they aware that subjects could risk altitude sickness?

Some visitors might risk altitude sickness, especially if they have either a pre-existing medical condition that puts them at risk, or if are otherwise healthy but that their their bodies cannot readily adapt to high altitudes.

What likelihood is there that they have the medical training needed to
distinguish between symptoms of altitude sickness and those brought on by ayahuasca?

Here is one case that illustrates how complicated this is.

Young Canadian dies after tea treatment in Peru
February 5, 2015

Very difficult to identify the final cause of death.

One person who participated in the discussion following the article did give
some information based on his own experimentation.

Quote

DJ
February 8, 2015 at 9:00 AM
Having drank both tobacco and ayahuasca in Peru I perhaps could shed some light.
It’s true that in most places people tend to drink tobacco a couple days before the first ayahuasca ceremony in order to “cleanse ” the body.
I drank the tobacco with a few other guys and was pretty ill. I noticed it increased my heart rate significantly and became very hot.so perhaps the poor lady in question had some underlying undiagnosed issue.
One lady who drank it with us had a violent reaction to it which scared the hell out of everybody . The best way I could describe her reaction was that of an epileptic when in the throws of seizure.
I think I remember reading somewhere that anything up to around 20% tobacco is reasonably ok but more than this can cause serious problems.
May God rest her soul.

[www.google.com]

[www.google.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2016 05:01AM by corboy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)
Posted by: liminal ()
Date: April 16, 2016 10:40PM

Trinity de Guzman attended his first LGAT (large group awareness training) when he was 18 years old. It was a high pressure, classic, manipulative LGAT. He did other trainings too.

He claims he can "manifest" anything and that he has the best of "intentions".

He was workers listen to hours of sales instruction tapes.

Trinity, Marc, and Dylan seem to be living in their own self absorbed movie. They seem to believe they are on hero quests.

Instead of listening and considering feedback from the world, they double down on delusional. They insist they have good intentions. Dylan says nothing bad is going on, such as a scam, because of their good intentions.

I assume Trinity would say that physical constraints like elevation can be overcome with good intentions.

They are on narcissistic hero quests, the rest of us be damned. Drugs aren't helping them any.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)
Posted by: dabcult ()
Date: April 17, 2016 01:33AM

CORBOY WROTE

Having drank both tobacco and ayahuasca in Peru I perhaps could shed some light.
It’s true that in most places people tend to drink tobacco a couple days before the first ayahuasca ceremony in order to “cleanse ” .

Actually there are various recipies of Ayahuwaska...
In Santo Daime it is only the vine and the leaf ...

But other shamanic paths use tobacos mix with the ayahuaska
i have read that there as been one death of a lady in Canada
after a ceremmony and it was due to hight level of tobacco in the brew (the autopsy reveal) Who knows who is preparing TRINITY brew and with what ingredients
I trust 100% Santo Daime but other stuff made in the jungle of Peru .who knows?

As far as LIMINAL comments
TNT Guzman and his little cult are delusional
and thinking that they can show the path to SELF REALIZATION to their followers
for a $$ fee.As the bible say ...the blind leading the blind ...they both fall in the dicth.
Anyway are there really very long term benefits in drinking Ayahuaska ?
Will the depress person ...eventually become free of depression
or will he have to drink the brew over and over again .
Dr Deepak Chopra talks about that most people have 50,000 toughts a day
and most people repeat the same toughts pattern day after day ...
Sometime I really do not see much difference in people toughts pattern after knowing them for 5 years ...and knowing they drink the brew 2 times a months
some have not improve at all and a few have become worst and cultic

Options: ReplyQuote
Clarification
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: April 17, 2016 04:57AM

Corboy:

I wish to make it clear that in my previous post (April 15, 2016)
I quoted another person's description, of combining ayahuasca with another harsh drug, namely nicotine. This discussion took place on a website, entitled "Doubtful News".

(Corboy has never used nicotine, nor entheogens, and has no plans ever to do so.)

The URL to the Doubtful News article was in small print and difficult to
find.

Here is the original article.

In
Quote

http://doubtfulnews.com/2015/02/young-canadian-dies-from-tea-treatment-in-peru/
, this other person who is not "Corboy" person used the computer handle "DJ".


Quote

http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,131244,page=20

One person who participated in the discussion following the article did give
some information based on his own experimentation.

Young Canadian dies after tea treatment in Peru
February 5, 2015

Quote

DJ
February 8, 2015 at 9:00 AM
Having drank both tobacco and ayahuasca in Peru I perhaps could shed some light.
It’s true that in most places people tend to drink tobacco a couple days before the first ayahuasca ceremony in order to “cleanse ” the body.
I drank the tobacco with a few other guys and was pretty ill. I noticed it increased my heart rate significantly and became very hot.so perhaps the poor lady in question had some underlying undiagnosed issue.
One lady who drank it with us had a violent reaction to it which scared the hell out of everybody . The best way I could describe her reaction was that of an epileptic when in the throws of seizure.
I think I remember reading somewhere that anything up to around 20% tobacco is reasonably ok but more than this can cause serious problems.
May God rest her soul.

More Google citations about the death of Jennifer Logan in Peru.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2016 05:20AM by corboy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Its the same chemistry, whether a plant or pure chemical.
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: April 17, 2016 05:55AM

Nicotine is nicotine, whether it is in powdered form in a laboratory bottle, or concentrated in a plant.

If someone believes nicotine in a ritual herb is less hazardous than nicotine that is USDA pharmacy grade, that belief has a name - Vitalism.

Quote

the theory that the origin and phenomena of life are dependent on a force or principle distinct from purely chemical or physical forces.

Nicotine Hydrochloride

The chemistry is the same, whether a substance is 100% pure, from a laboratory shelf, or in a variety of herbs, some of which make tea, others of which have been genetically modified and turned into cash crops, such as the tobacco plant.

Soo..Ayahuasca itself has hazards, but so do other plants that might be used to
prepare subjects to receive ayahuasca.

A lot depends on a person's body weight and general state of health - cardiac health, ability of that person's liver and kidney's to metabolize and excrete
toxic materials in an efficient manner.

* If you are going to expose yourself knowingly to powerful substances you have no familiarity with, consider a full medical check up that includes the values that measure kidney and liver efficiency.

Some persons may have a problem they know nothing about. The liver and kidneys are non complaining organs. They do not make you feel sick until most of their efficiency is compromised. By then you have few medical options.

Illustration

Corboy picked up a hepatitis A infection (the food poisoning kind). I never did feel sick and am now immune. But if I had exposed myself to a dose of nicotine tea or taken ayahuasca during my nonsymptomatic Hep A infection, my liver could've been killed and my trip been an utter disaster, had I survived.

Had I been a worker in a nail salon with all its toxic chemicals, it would have been just as hazardous. Luckily I had no jobs entailing food preparation.

Chemicals are chemicals, no matter what their source.

Moral of the Story

* Persons offering these plants had better test the chemical levels in those brews and study up on the pharmacology of the active ingredients. How many milligrams of nicotine is in one unit of herbal tea, eh? What if it equals 50 cigarettes and one of your subjects unknowingly has a low grade Hep A infection?

* What if your subject is taking a malaria prevention drug? Do ayahuasca providers check on possible drug interactions?

Options: ReplyQuote
Un-Examined biases and Expectations
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: April 17, 2016 06:54AM

What if "direct experience" is something defined and made desirable by
a Western ideology that influences us and that shapes our goals before we book a plane ticket?

What if a seemingly unique "call" to "follow our bliss" (Joseph Cambbell) may not be a message from Ultimate Reality, but arises from mundane social influences?

Social influences we are unaware of, that trigger our yearnings and longings,
that implanted in us in the form of "presuppositions" - assumptions received as given, so much so that they are often invisible to us - unless we are trained to identify them.

In much of the seeker's scene, "direct experience" is valued.

How many of us
find spiritual mentors who advise us, as part of our preparation that we ought to do a differnt kind purging - nt with drugs but to to turn around and ask whether Joseph Campbell and Jung speak to us because we already share their philosophical stance? That that is why it "calls" to us.

That this is from social and cultural influences we do not know affect us, this accounting for the eerie "magical" effect.

At least ask this before intruding on the privacy of tribes struggling to preserve their privacy.

In this essay, "Buddhist Romanticism" Buddhist monk examines how Westerners filtered their encounter with the various Buddhisms through presuppositions
derived from Western Romanticism.

As we read this essay, ask how much of this does not match up with Joseph Campbell's approach?

Buddhist Romanticism -Thanassaro Bhikku.

Buddhist Romanticism
Western Romanticism puts the emphasis on the individual, and individual fulfullment through self expression

Bhikku, confines this examination to the Western encounter with the Buddhisms.

Corboy suggests pondering the implications of applying the Western Romantic approach to seeking authenticity and self fulfillment from native american sources.

Most of the time, Romantic notions of self development and self fulfillment
call for crossing boundaries, meeting challenges.

How often do Western seekers report that they gained wisdom by discovering
some tribal boundaries were such that an outsider gains more wisdom by refusing to violate those boundaries than by imposing oneself?

We do not hear many accounts in which self fulfillment might arise through
learning accepting one's status as an outsider?

By discovering that sincerity does not give outsiders a free pass to impose ourselves upon a group protecting its ceremonies from intrusion.

What if a person mistakes poignant urgency and warm fuzzy feelings for 'sincerity' and 'good intentions.?

What if the original custodians of healing plants had and have a world view differentt from western romantic self fulfillment?

Some things may not be transferable across cultures.

Let us examine a few points. Here are some hunches. Let us examine them.

Western Romanticism does not stabilize traditional societies, nor does it change those societies in slow and manageable ways.

Western Romanticism has destabilized traditional societies and, combined with capitalism, has done so rapidly. The most recent spin off from Western Romanticism was the hippie popularization of psychedelics.

Invasions by drug seeking hippies and money hungry opportunists has disrupted the cultures which had custody of ayahuasca, peyote etc.

Without the technology which created accessible forms of air travel to distant places, fewer hippies and psychedelicists would have reached Asia and North Africa.

And because of affordable automobiles and gasoline, this technology enabled large number of experience hungry seekers to reach territories in North and South America and invade the homelands of those who had custody of healing plants.

Western Romanticism was a big impetus to the revolutions - America, France, Haiti, the Central American countries.

Revolutions disrupt the traditional societies. When romanticism combines with capitalism, traditional art, cultural patterns are ruined by creating tourist industries, whether large scale (cruise ships that contaminate the ocean)
and tourist invasions of people's home lives in the quest for authenticity.

What if the lived experience of the original custodians and users of ayahausca had and have a world view and self/other view that differs from that of the seeker who is Western Romantic

Corboy suggests that a danger in the Western Romantic notion of self development self fulfillment is that on our way to overcome isolation and estrangement,
we might, to get special experiences, regard massage methods, dance methods, chant methods and psychedelic plants on an instrumental basis -- regard and use them as tools--that Plant X is here for my benefit.

And that a Western Romantic might continue to see ayahuasca as existing for his or her fulfillment,of the original custodians, despite all the exalted chatter about 'spirits".

If you actually believe in spirits, has it occurred to you that such spirits might not exist for your benefit?

Perhaps, just perhaps the original custodians of ayahuasca have a world view quite different from Western Romanticism? What if a member of ayahuasca's custodial peoples has a different experience of self and other -- one that might not even be self and other?

The author of the essay from which the following material is quoted is advising university students to re-examine terms taken for granted, terms such as "religion".

Travelers and seekers might also consider it valuable to examine whether such terms as "spirituality" might also be based on unexamined assumptions -- assumptions that might tempt us to ignore tribal people's requests that we not intrude upon their rituals or grab hold of their plants.

[archive.org]

(Routledge Companion to the Study of Religion, 2005)
[quoted from the introduction to the 2005 edition]

Quote

Students on many courses become fretful when studying theory and method.
However, the more complex the subject, the more important such areas become. When
that subject is one as full of sensitivities, presuppositions and prejudices as the study of religion is, then it is essential that, from the outset, the student is alerted to debates and doubts and that key issues, motives, aims and beliefs are foregrounded.

There have been numerous debates about definitions and presuppositions in
the study of religion. Many scholars have questioned whether there is any such
'thing' as religion, there are only the religions. But some have gone further and questioned the value of the term 'religion' at all.

In various languages, in Sanskrit for example, there is no word for 'religion'. Is 'religion' a Western construct imposed on various cultures as a part of intellectual imperialism? It has been said that 'words mean what
we want them to'. My own opinion is that the word 'religion' is useful, but should
be used with caution.

The ease of travel and large migrations to and from many countries have resulted
in 'globalization', the interaction of cultures at a global level. 'The other' is encountered more often, more closely and by more people than ever before. Whereas some 'religions' were remote and exotic now they are part of the local scenery for many of us.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2016 11:42PM by corboy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)
Posted by: jenann ()
Date: April 17, 2016 11:45AM

It appears that New Haven/Sacred Way Lodge has deleted from their calendar the ayahuasca retreat they had held in January and there are no earth based ceremonies listed on the calendar for the remaining of the year (???)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)
Posted by: dabcult ()
Date: April 17, 2016 10:47PM

Someone left this message under my video ...is it truth or not I do not know

Christopher Trinity Guzman has trained with Raven Starre who stole $500.000
dollars from my friends ...and another friend lost $100,000 to Raven.
She took everything they had ...and this right before chrismas too!Their children had no chrismas presents ...no presents no holidays .Nothing left to say !


My search on the internet for Raven Starre shows that she is a scammer
that was involve in the sort of multi levels sales organizations
pressure sales similar to the ones that TNT GUZMAN as been involve with other
multi levels organizations

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)
Posted by: liminal ()
Date: April 17, 2016 11:25PM

Trinity has acknowledged Raven Starre as a mentor.

Options: ReplyQuote
Current Page: 20 of 30


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.