Brian Adler:

This thread also has very highly nuanced descriptions of what is really going on with Byron Katie.
Its not about furthering agendas, its about researching the facts of reality. There are 1000x more facts in these threads, than in all of Byron Katie's materials put together, all she sells are Stories, and testimonials and anecdotes, and makes millions doing so.

So lets keep the facts straight.
Someone posted on Guruphiliac that their family member ended up in a psychiatic hospital, after attending Byron Katie's extreme and dangerous LGAT seminar called The School. That kind of damage happens to people ALL THE TIME at these types of LGAT seminars.

Then right away, someone named Brian Adler simply blamed the victim. (standard response)
[forum.culteducation.com]
Why did he blame the victim of the seminar?
What happened to this woman, happens ALL THE TIME at these seminars.
Why not blame the multimillion dollar LGAT seminar corporation for manipulating and hurting vulnerable people, by duping them into thinking the seminar is going to end their suffering?

Is Brian Adler a psychiatrist? No?
Then why would he post a defense of Byron Katie's methods, saying the 4 Questions would not
"escalate, de-compensate etc a bipolar patient."

How does he know that? Why would someone use psychiatric terminology, to post a defense of someone who was harmed at a Byron Katie seminar?
How could he know that this person was bipolar, manic-depressive?
Those so-called 4 Questions could EASILY send manic people off the deep end, as they dissociate them from reality very quickly. Part of their intent, is to literally push people into solipsism and delusion, and for someone with mental health issues, manic dissociation could come very rapidly.
There are MANY OTHER REPORTS in this thread and elsewhere, about the harm people have received from the Byron Katie methods.

And the 4 Questions are nothing, at most 10% of what else Byron Katie is doing to people.
These LGAT seminars constantly push manic people into terrible manic states, and even into psychosis. That has been known for many years, read the disclaimers they force people to sign.

People who look into this, know damn well that VERBALLY, the facilitators and promoters of Byron Katie imply and say the opposite of those disclaimers, and tell desperate people the seminars and The Work can cure anything.

Brian Adler even himself said on Carol Skolnicks blog that The Work can deal with ANYTHING.
[forum.culteducation.com]
[soulsurgery.blogspot.com]
Can it? Of course not. People with serious issues need to stay far away from this damaging Byron Katie stuff, but of course, those with the most suffering are targeted, and are the ones who generally fall for it.

So no, Brian Adler is not the subject of this thread.
The thread is about Byron Katie and her sophisticated methods of group persuasion, the methods that people don't see at first glance.
And its also about exposing the tactics of those who run interference for her, and her other "voluntary" volunteers who run around creating confusion.
They use the "thin wedge" to get a foothold in people's minds, again a very common method.

But anyone who immediately blames the vulnerable victim of an LGAT seminar, needs to look into the mirror at how cruel that is. That is victim bashing. Why not bash the multimillionaire con-artists for a change?

And also get educated into how HARMFUL these types of LGAT seminars are.
Its possible some people are so blinded by the ideology and the faux-spirituality, that they blind themselves to the advanced and powerful techniques of social influence being used on people.
If so, its time to wake-up, do some research into the documented damaging techniques of LGAT seminars, like the one Byron Katie runs, called The School.
Its simply methods copied from many other LGAT seminars, all combined together in a different package.

And stop victim-blaming those who get hurt by these terrible LGAT seminars, who exploit people who are in serious suffering.
The suggestion that people who have serious mental health problems should not be allowed to do the "exercises and field trips" in the seminar, is beyond absurd. First off, who is going to enforce it? But more importantly, that is WHO THEY TARGET IN THEIR ADVERTISING.
...Clinical depression, binge eating, trauma, PTSD, rape, self-abuse, self-destruction, suicidality...
[forum.culteducation.com]

The only solution will be when these LGAT seminars are held ACCOUNTABLE for what they are doing to people. That is the accountability they try to avoid with their complicated disclaimers, which even include a "death clause".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2009 03:45AM by The Anticult.

Anticult,

I have to add one last thing. I completely agree with you that it is wrong for these seminars to encourage people to believe they will never suffer again as a result of their participation. It would be much much more honest if they said to people that they might discover that they accept (relatively) that they suffer as a result of their participation. Even better would be to make no promises of any kind. But that would indeed be a less marketable claim.

Brian

These LGAT seminars, have been deliberately and self-consciously deceiving people for decades, using every trick in the book.
Even at the most basic level, they use all sorts of high-pressure sales techniques, which were designed by professional salespeople in the late 1970's, as ways to upsell people to take more seminars.
Werner Erhard of EST and Landmark was the expert at that, and many people have copied his methods. Including Byron Katie, who also uses many of those base level sales-techniques, in how they market The School, which is a standard LGAT seminar.

The reason the LGAT seminar tells people the seminar will End Their Suffering is very simple, and explained in sales texts.
Its called making a Big Claim.
You make a Big Claim, so you can charge $5,000-$20,000. Big Claim = Big Price.
You get 250 bums in seats at $4,500 each, that is over 1 million, non-refundable. (plus on site sales, which can be another 50%).

Its classic. Target desperate people (motivated customer), and make a Big Claim for a big price.

But all of those advanced sales Tech is only at maximum 5% of what is going on.

The Byron Katie LGAT seminar called The School, is using dozens and even hundreds of the most powerful techniques on earth, all at once on vulnerable people.
The so-called 4 Questions are not what its about. They are actually a form of misdirection.
The "exercises and field trips" are not also what its about.
Its what is contained within those processes, that untrained people cannot see, that is what is really going on. There are dozens and hundreds of powerful processes happening in these LGAT seminars. And they have all copied eachother.
That is where Byron Katie got all of her material, for her LGAT seminar. None of it is original, its just a cut and paste of many other seminars.

The REAL stuff, is all of the incredibly complex and powerful techniques of social influence being used on people. The techniques have been refined to the point now, where they are extremely dangerous.
Want proof?
Read their own disclaimers, they are very similar.
LGAT seminar releases [forum.culteducation.com]
They know EXACTLY what can happen to people, they see it all the time, this is why people are forced to sign those disclaimers.

And anyone who actually works in these seminars, know they don't work. The same people come back over and over again, with the same problems.
That is also deliberate, its the Lifelong Customer, another dream for the business person.

These seminars, like the Byron Katie seminar, are very carefully designed and scripted.
Sadly, those into the new agey types of ideas, appear to have no training in how these LGAT seminars work, and just take them on face value, or get blinded by the superficial content.
But to the trained-eye, they can see what is going on in minutes, and much of that is explained in this thread.

And to knowingly target and exploit vulnerable people, repeatedly, you cannot have a normal human conscience to do that for years on end.
People are getting hurt, people are getting cleaned out financially, people are ending up in the hospital, that happens at every seminar, like clockwork.
They really don't care, they just kick them out of the seminar, and blame the victim.

What about the suicides which are reported to have happened after the seminar? Why is there a "death clause" in the release? Why have a number of those who know about the seminars, brought up the subject of suicides, comparing them with suicides at college? This subject has not been properly exposed yet.

The only solution is for the seminar companies to be held accountable for what they do to people.

Also, any seminar with a ridiculous disclaimer like Byron Katie , no one should attend.
On top of that, the seminar blindsides people with those complex disclaimers right at the seminar, and hyped-up people don't read them, they just sign it.
And people with extreme suffering and mental illness problems, they don't generally read it either, they are looking for an escape. They believe the VERBAL hype and TRICKY ADVERTISING.
And the Byron Katie system encourages DENIAL, which is one of the most dangerous aspects of many mental illnesses, so its a recipe for disaster.

Those who run the seminars know that too, so they say all sorts of stuff VERBALLY, yet still get them to sign the disclaimers, to protect themselves.
Its all explained here, in what happened with the Landmark seminar, which is related to the Byron Katie seminar, as Byron Katie copied material from Werner Erhard as well. [forum.culteducation.com]

And they will continue to run their advertising and viral marketing, targeting those who are desperate, and who happen to have access to $5,000 or even better, $20,000, and more.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2009 02:08AM by The Anticult.

There is a recent book for professionals, that most libraries would have.
Cognitive-Behavior Therapy for Severe Mental Illness [www.appi.org]
It even has a DVD, with role-play.

This book shows how CBT, obviously has nothing to do with ridiculous things like The so-called Work of Byron Katie, who even says she does not do "psychology", obviously for reasons of covering their own ass.
(they have tried to get a few people to say The Work is like CBT, when it is not, if anything its the opposite of CBT).

But, in that book, it shows how there is scientific evidence in several studies, (page 6-7) that an increase in life STRESS occurs right before hospitalization for people with bipolar and mania, and also for people without previous psychiatric disorders.
So its the extreme STRESS of these LGAT seminars, and everything that goes on with them, including triggering traumatic memories and PTSD, sleep deprivation, food deprivation, and dozens of other things ALL AT ONCE.
All of that massive stress for 9 days, is triggering severe mental breakdowns in people, which can lead to hospitalization.

They know this of course, which is why they have their release of liability, they know the seminar triggers hospitalizations and suicide attempts and death by suicide. Not only for people with previous mental health issues, but also for people who have never had a mental illness.
That is why they try to protect themselves.

Just triggering PTSD by these amateurs, hacks and quacks, would certainly lead to cases of suicide. PTSD is lethal, and triggering it like they do in these seminars, then just leaving people with untrained people, is lethal.
Once the PTSD pain gets triggered, it doesn't stop, and that leads to many many suicides, that happen rapidly.

They know all this of course, its in the disclaimers.
Their philosophy is, welcome to The School of Hard Knocks, pay in advance, and the malpractice we do to you, is your fault.

A little butterfly sent me a fragment of BK's teleconference call in August, where she continues to discuss the code of ethics:

Quote

Caller: When I am really honest, number 10 on the Code of Ethics is the hardest one for me: "I will not give my clients advice." And it seems as if the place where I'm susceptible to giving advice, is this inclination to tell people how to do The Work. I can share my own...
Katie (interrupting): OK now, see - that is OK - I mean, I mean, you know - that is not a breech of the (laughing) Code of Ethics - you know - people are going to slap it right back in your face.
Caller: yeah?
Katie: But, but when I talk about advice - uhn - giving it would be like you're working w/someone that wants to divorce their spouse and you say: "Well, if it were me after hearing your worksheet, I would divorce them too." That's what I'm talking about.
Caller: O.K. that's clear
Katie: But in the Candidates Forum, when you're not working with - uhn - those of you not working with outside clients, you're just working with candidates, and the mentors, etc. - you know - just people enrolled in the Institute for The Work, then - uhn - you know - we're gonna - we're learning, we're growing. But these Code of Ethics is no more - it's no more and no less than you're going to have in any coaching - uhn - company or - or - uhn - or, if you had trained for years to be a psychologist, a psychiatrist - you know - you're gonna get exactly this - you know - it's - it's just a standard - uhn - really way of - of being with people that is natural for all of us and we work through the rest and when we breech it - you know - I'm just so here to - uhn - to talk.

But what - HONEY - what you're talking about - like giving advice to people about how to do The Work or to SHUT UP - you know - they're not your clients - it's all family here and (laughs) is that - Oops! - you know - uhn - I'm sorry I said to SHUT UP. And, I'm gonna work through that and then we do it and we learn a lot and then we go back and say how can I make it right? And if we owe an apology - uhn - in the forum - we do it. I mean - you know - just to clean it all up. And, nothing serious here, as far as us all together learning. But, I love that we're all conscious of what is right and wrong within ourself. We all know what that is.

I have several different comments that I could give here, but I am so stunned that it is turning me speechless. Completely flabbergasted.

The Byron Katie July 22, 2009 Facilitator teleconference needs to be looked at much closer. [forum.culteducation.com]

As mentioned, there is some very disturbing material in it.

But also, the rambling, confused speaking pattern, also gives some clues.
Its her general strategy of inducing confusion in the listener, and that is a common pattern.

And at the same time there is a confusing and rambling delivery, there are also very deliberate strategies being used on the listeners to get them to do what she wants them to do, like the threats against people who don't do what they are told to do, that she will PULL THEIR PROFILE. That message is loud and clear.


But on a more general note. Has anyone dealt with a friend or relative who has problems on and off, with pill-popping prescription drug abuse? They go off the pills for a while, then slip back, it goes on and on for many years, if not until the end of their life.
Anyone who has dealt with a pill-popping relative and others, begins to see patterns.
The first pattern they will never admit to starting up on the pill-popping again, they will deny it to the end.
They also use self-denial, and get on pills to make them "slimmer" or to "sleep", when in fact they are addicted.

One of the other patterns is a confused manner of speaking, inability to hold a thought, jumping from sentence to sentence and not finishing sentences or thoughts.
Once a person has dealt with a lot of pill-poppers, its not hard to notice the patterns pretty quick.
When someone has gone back to the pill-popping.

Invalidating Environment--A Discussion of Dialectical Behavior Therapy

Quote

'.The term 'Invalidating Environment' refers essentially to a situation in which the personal experiences and responses of the growing child are disqualified or "invalidated" by the significant others in her life. The child's personal communications are not accepted as an accurate indication of her true feelings and it is implied that, if they were accurate, then such feelings would not be a valid response to circumstances. ....an Invalidating Environment is characterised by a tendency to place a high value on self-control and self-reliance. Possible difficulties in these areas are not acknowledged and it is implied that problem solving should be easy given proper motivation. (quoted from article below)

If you have been harmed by an upbringing in an invalidating environment, you cannot expect to find relief from a relationship or a group that has the features of an invalidating environment, even though you may have temporary flashes of relief.

The original conditions that generated your distress are being re-enacted--at worst, you're being persuaded to pay for it in money, time and energy--at least as a child, you did not have to pay funds to live in an invalidating environment.

BTW here for contrast is a discussion of dialectical behavior therapy for persons suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder.

Contrary to common stigma, BPD condition, which generates tremendous anguish for sufferers, is treatable, but requires a long term alliance with a trained therapist working in conjunction with a consultancy group of colleagues.

It should be noted than an upbringing in an invalidating environment does not always give rise to borderline personality disorder but can still have a wounding effect. Some emerge with less disabling but still painful reaction patterns of the kinds we see among those who have grown up in families plagued by alcholism, addiction, etc.

[www.mentalhelp.net]

Quote

Dialectical Behaviour Therapy is based on a bio-social theory of borderline personality disorder. Linehan hypothesises that the disorder is a consequence of an emotionally vulnerable individual growing up within a particular set of environmental circumstances which she refers to as the 'Invalidating Environment'.

An 'emotionally vulnerable' person in this sense is someone whose autonomic nervous system reacts excessively to relatively low levels of stress and takes longer than normal to return to baseline once the stress is removed. It is proposed that this is the consequence of a biological diathesis.

(Note that many LGATs require people to sign release of liability forms and advise against participating if one has a condition that requires medication. This seems to acknowledge that the LGAT requiring such paperwork is aware it is capable of creating a stressful environment. If part of that stress consists of invalidating what a subject considers to be his or her identity and personal history, that would be very stressful indeed--hence the need for the form.(Corboy)

The term 'Invalidating Environment' refers essentially to a situation in which the personal experiences and responses of the growing child are disqualified or "invalidated" by the significant others in her life. The child's personal communications are not accepted as an accurate indication of her true feelings and it is implied that, if they were accurate, then such feelings would not be a valid response to circumstances.

'Furthermore, an Invalidating Environment is characterised by a tendency to place a high value on self-control and self-reliance. Possible difficulties in these areas are not acknowledged and it is implied that problem solving should be easy given proper motivation.

'Any failure on the part of the child to perform to the expected standard is therefore ascribed to lack of motivation or some other negative characteristic of her character. (The feminine pronoun will be used throughout this paper when referring to the patient since the majority of BPD patients are female and Linehan's work has focused on this subgroup).

Linehan suggests that an emotionally vulnerable child can be expected to experience particular problems in such an environment.

She will neither have the opportunity accurately to label and understand her feelings nor will she learn to trust her own responses to events. Neither is she helped to cope with situations that she may find difficult or stressful, since such problems are not acknowledged.

It may be expected then that she will look to other people for indications of how she should be feeling and to solve her problems for her.

Quote

DIALECTICAL BEHAVIOUR THERAPY

The term 'dialectical' is derived from classical philosophy. It refers to a form of argument in which an assertion is first made about a particular issue (the 'thesis'), the opposing position is then formulated (the 'antithesis' ) and finally a 'synthesis' is sought between the two extremes, embodying the valuable features of each position and resolving any contradictions between the two. This synthesis then acts as the thesis for the next cycle. In this way truth is seen as a process which develops over time in transactions between people. From this perspective there can be no statement representing absolute truth. Truth is approached as the middle way between extremes.

The dialectical approach to understanding and treatment of human problems is therefore non-dogmatic, open and has a systemic and transactional orientation.

The dialectical viewpoint underlies the entire structure of therapy, the key dialectic being 'acceptance' on the one hand and 'change' on the other. Thus DBT includes specific techniques of acceptance and validation designed to counter the self-invalidation of the patient.


" These are balanced by techniques of problem solving to help her learn more adaptive ways of dealing with her difficulties and acquire the skills to do so.

The emphasis is to assist the person to develop insight and a realistic sense of personal agency by applying insight skills, not to invalidate the persons own story and identity but instead to analyse a difficult situation and identify areas for taking action.

Quote


'In the course of a typical behavioural analysis a particular instance of behaviour is first clearly defined in specific terms and then a 'chain analysis' is conducted, looking in detail at the sequence of events and attempting to link these events one to another.

'In the course of this process hypotheses are generated about the factors that may be controlling the behaviour.

'This is followed by, or interwoven with, a 'solution analysis' in which alternative ways of dealing with the situation at each stage are considered and evaluated. Finally one solution should be chosen for future implementation. Difficulties that may be experienced in carrying out this solution are considered and strategies of dealing with these can be worked out.

'Dialectical strategies underlie all aspects of treatment to counter the extreme and rigid thinking encountered in these patients. The dialectical world view is apparent in the three pairs of 'dialectical dilemmas' already described, in the goals of therapy and in the attitudes and communication styles of the therapist which are to be described.The therapy is behavioural in that, without ignoring the past, it focuses on present behaviour and the current factors which are controlling that behaviour.

(Corboy) I suggest this is very different from BK Work which does ignore the past. (eg where would you be without your story?).

Here now are therapist attitudes:

Quote

THERAPIST CHARACTERISTICS IN DBT

The success of treatment is dependant on the quality of the relationship between the patient and therapist. The emphasis is on this being a real human relationship in which both members matter and in which the needs of both have to be considered. Linehan is particularly alert to the risks of burnout to therapists treating these patients and therapist support and consultation is an integral and essential part of the treatment. In DBT support is not regarded as an optional extra. The basic idea is that the therapist gives DBT to the patient and receives DBT from his or her colleagues. The approach is a team approach.

The therapist is asked to accept a number of working assumptions about the patient that will establish the required attitude for therapy:

1. The patient wants to change and, in spite of appearances, is trying her best at any particular time.

2. Her behaviour pattern is understandable given her background and present circumstances. Her life may currently not be worth living (however, the therapist will never agree that suicide is the appropriate solution but always stays on the side of life. The solution is rather to try and make life more worth living).

3. In spite of this she needs to try harder if things are ever to improve. She may not be entirely to blame for the way things are but it is her personal responsibility to make them different.

4. Patients can not fail in DBT. If things are not improving it is the treatment that is failing.

In particular the therapist must avoid at all times viewing the patient, or talking about her, in pejorative terms since such an attitude will be antagonistic to successful therapeutic intervention and likely to feed into the problems that have led to the development of BPD in the first place.

Linehan has a particular dislike for the word "manipulative" as commonly applied to these patients. She points out that this implies that they are skilled at managing other people when it is precisely the opposite that is true. Also the fact that the therapist may feel manipulated does not necessarily imply that this was the intention of the patient. It is more probable that the patient did not have the skills to deal with the situation more effectively.

Quote

Patients with BPD frequently describe a history of childhood sexual abuse and this is regarded within the (theoretical) model as representing a particularly extreme form of invalidation.

Linehan emphasises that this theory is not yet supported by empirical evidence but the value of the technique does not depend on the theory being correct since the clinical effectiveness of DBT does have empirical support.

(Corboy note)"Empirical support" means research done in clinical settings by scientists who test and measure whether Dialectical therapy has a beneficial effect greater than can be accounted for by placebo effect, and a benefit greater than those therapuetic methods already in use. Subjects are randomly assigned to therapy and control groups without the investigator knowing--double blind testing.

This is published and discussed in peer review journals, not marketed by heavy PR in charisma driven large groups, nor is this therapeutic modality being pushed by devotees nor are skeptical discussions disrupted by 'astroturf' trolls.)

Linehan describes the predicament suffered by many persons with Borderline Personality Disorder.

Quote

On the other hand they have internalised the characteristics of the Invalidating Environment and tend to show 'self-invalidation'. They invalidate their own responses and have unrealistic goals and expectations, feeling ashamed and angry with themselves when they experience difficulty or fail to achieve their goals.

(My personal opinion and hunch: A person in this predicament is likely to be attracted to the promise of relief, especially if a trusted friend is urging them to try the latest fad. Then the sufferer is likely to blame herself when the source of relief turns out to not to be a source of relief, but actually re-enacts earlier episodes of invalidation in that persons life. The sufferer is too busy taking the blame to catch on that the method is messed up.Corboy)


(Corboy note: THe entire article needs to be read in full. Dont just go by my little snippists. I do suggest that from my perspective, this reads very differently from the Four Questions, which, I suggest, could for some persons, carry the risk of entrenching a harmful pattern of self invalidation especially if the self invalidation is an important feature of the crippling pattern of suffering for which people seek are seeking relief.

If BK lacks training in psychological diagnosis and assessment, and her staff members are not trained, how do they tell which persons should or should not do school events. And...many persons may lack awareness when filling out forms beforehand, to know whether the School is incompatible with their needs.

I know a few friends who are credentialed to work with high tech blackpowder fireworks. They had to do rigorous training before being licensed, background checks, and had to get recommendations from at least one preson who was already licensed. By contrast, there is very, very little oversight for anyone who wants to play with psychological fireworks. )



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2009 02:15AM by corboy.

BK's latest tweet:

All sadness is a tantrum

This is so typical: 'all sadness is a tantrum'. No negative emotions are allowed. BK mocks people through her manner of questioning, making them feel ridiculous, making her audiences laugh at them. She is just another sales-lady in the 'feel-good' business. Because she claims that she hasn't been angry, sad, etc. for the last two decades or so, which is of course a very unverifiable statement, it means that everyone needs to follow her ways, unless they don't want to end their suffering of course. She is talking about 'a new way', she refers to history books, saying that in all of our history, nothing has been able to end war, but now there is a way: the work will end all war on this planet. She claims that there are millions of people all over the world that are doing the work, she has founded the World Center for The Work in Ojai, she tells her candidates that they are 'the facilitators for this world'. These are grossly exaggerated statements. About 2000 people are registered with her institute, and about 15 of them post regularly on her forums, she has around 8000 followers on Twitter, that's all. There are no millions doing the work. There aren't even hundreds of thousands doing the work. These stories are either part of her marketing strategy, or she is truly deluded and believes her own myth.
There is a new clip on YouTube, [www.youtube.com] where she talks backstage to some musicians. It is amazing to watch. She can't relate in a normal way anymore, it is as if she can't relate at all outside of the work, just like in the Oprah clips.

That statement by Byron Katie "All sadness is a tantrum", says a lot.

First off, she is always saying how nothing can be known. But all she ever does is make declarative statements, she promotes as "true".

More importantly, "All sadness is a tantrum", is completely wrong.
There is healthy sadness, and unhealthy extreme sadness like severe depression which needs treatment from a licensed professional.
"Sadness" is healthy, when in proportion to what is happening.

The so-called "advice" being given by Byron Katie about human emotion, shows she has no idea of what she is talking about. And its also a way to try and manipulate her followers, by pathologizing normal human emotions.

It also sounds like a drug-addict or alcoholic talking, who very often are people who think they CANNOT TOLERATE any type of painful emotion, so they reach for the pills-booze as soon as they feel any painful emotion.
When in fact, learning how to tolerate painful emotion is essential.

Its unfortunate there are a few people who do believe the Byron Katie fairy-story that she hasn't felt any sadness for decades. That is such an obvious fabrication, its amazing some people believe it.


The exaggerations about how The Work is changing the world with millions of followers, sounds identical to how Scientology promotes itself. Scientology says its the worlds fastest growing religion, which is false.
And actually, what Byron Katie is selling, is basically identical to Scientology. Not the stuff about space aliens, (although in an early book, Byron Katie did talk about flying around the Universe, until she dropped that Story).
But Scientology tells their people they can make them Enlightened and reach the state of "Clear", by taking the Scientology courses and seminars, and volunteering for the various Scientology front-groups. (that will cost as much money as you have, even hundreds of thousands of dollars).

That is identical to what Byron Katie says, even Carol Skolnick and others use the word "clear" when referring to The Work.
They are both telling people they can make you Enlightened and Clear, if you buy their seminars, and "volunteer" for their organizations, and volunteer for their Hotlines. (Scientology also has a volunteer hotline).
There are many similarities between Byron Katie and Scientology, not in the content, but in the structure of the organizations.
Scientology also has "auditing" and BK has "facilitation", and they both serve the same function for the sect.

Its the old Enlightenment for Sale routine.
Its the ultimate salespitch, to escape from all human suffering and the human condition.
And Byron Katie and Scientology both know its an IMPOSSIBLE attainment, which is terrific for them. Then it can keep people locked in for life. Because when the courses don't work, its YOUR FAULT, and you need to take more expensive seminars and coaching and auditing and facilitation.

The people are the golden goose, both for Byron Katie and Scientology.
Its amazing how similar the organizations are, both selling the promise of enlightenment, expensive seminars, auditing-facilitation, volunteer hotlines, front-groups staffed by unpaid "volunteers", and using the worlds most powerful techniques of covert persuasion, social influence, and even brainwashing on people...it just goes on an on.
Certainly aspects of the Scientology business model have been copied as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2009 03:30AM by The Anticult.

[www.byronkatie.com]
The Byron Katie Newsletter, September 2009

Just shameless.
They open the newsletter, calling people their dearest FAMILY. That is an emotional technique, obviously, part of the Love-Bombing.
And targeting those who are idealists and have no training in how these LGAT seminars work. Anyone can see the LGAT techniques, even in the photos, where they have the entire room facing eachother in a circle, that is copied DIRECTLY from Werner Erhard and the EST seminars, the only difference is they are sitting down.


Katie koans?
Cringe-inducing.
Now Stephen Mitchell and her are trying to turn BK into a Zen Guru too, which is what Mitchell has always wanted to be.
Again, BK claims to not know anything about any spiritual tradition.
She also says she knows nothing about psychology, or anything else.

Ironically, that is one area she is telling the truth, she doesn't know anything about spirituality, except how to run a business, and being an expert in group persasion.
Byron Katie has copied all the experts in this field, in terms of her LGAT seminars, and in how the entire business organization is structured.