also, as was mentioned already, jody deliberately distorted Byron Katies claims about God, and being God, and the rest of it. She literally believes she is God.
Why did he distort that? Is that right? Is it ok to do that, and not get called-out about it? No it is not.

I know the BK people would play word games with it, but she is claiming she is God, in a solipsist sense, and who knows what she really thinks?
Byron Katie is a master mass-hypnotist, among her other talents of personal persuasion, charisma, and manipulation.

No one is saying Byron Katie is Sai Baba.
But is it less dangerous or MORE dangerous for a Guru to being wearing robes, or dressed as a housewife?
If a Guru says they are not a Guru, is is true because they say so?
If a Guru posts hypnotic pictures Love Bombing you with her eyes, like Byron Katie, that is not a Guru?

Jody has said he LOVES GURUS. Guruphilliac.
philiac: suff.
1. One that has a tendency toward: hemophiliac.
2. One that has an abnormal attraction to: necrophiliac.

-Philia: [www.google.com]

So that is what is being said.
Jody Guruphiliac attacks Gurus he does not like. Great.

And he SUPPORTS Gurus he loves, or has an "abnormal attraction" too.

So what's the problem?
His own blog means Guruphiliac = AN ABNORMAL ATTRACTION TO GURUS.

So which Gurus does he support? Just put a list on his website.
Why all the deception?
This is not the first time a bias towards certain Guru's has been noted about Guruphiliac.

Some folks never learn life is easier and better when you just tell the truth.

"Its doubtful this is about "friendship". There is solid information that some visitors to the Guruphiliac blog were referred to The Work coaching through this BK Insider, and then to Byron Katie School LGAT. Is there a commission there of any sort? "

-What's your source on this? At this point, you are just flying off the handle and making up conspiracies.

Also to debunk your claim that anti-Katie posts are getting deleted, here is a sample from that thread:

"I'm willing to bet a large proportion of people attend Katie's workshops think they can be aided in "awakening" by her "presence" as well. The only slight difference is that she does not use the specific word "presence" in her spiel."

"Compared to Katie, Tolle appears a lot more "normal" and free of ambition to be savior of the masses.""

"First of all, if "The Work" is a simple and harmless practice (nevermind the aspect of doing it in the context of a large group and the attendant peer pressure), why would a percentage of folks leave? Especially if they've spent upwards of $4000 for a mere 9 days with Byron Katie. Would the average Joe/Josephine paying that princely a sum likely feel all that free/easy about leaving? Doubtful. And you get zippo back if you leave."


"How would this person know for sure that "there is no one who has been refused their stuff back in that exercise"? No one? Ever? Byron Katie, is that you?"

"Byron Katie, psychotically deranged? That's just what I thought when I read this interview of her. Btw, it's post-"enlightenment":

[www.realization.org]

"

From Jody himself: (you call THIS "shilling"?)

"You've got a very persuasive point in that article, but I'm not really surprised by any of it. It's rather common for folks to come to spiritual realization in the midst of a personal crisis. Katie would appear to have several afflictions described in the DSM-IV, but that doesn't mean she's not speaking from a place of experiential understanding about realization, despite the fact she's slathering on the dramatic and likely to be embellished descriptions of her experience, all of which have no more to do with who she really is than my dog's ass. It was all just content in her mind, regardless of how significant it is being made to appear."

Like I've said, be patient with Jody, present your facts, and he is pretty open-minded. Insult him and call him a "shill" when he isn't and you'll probably get deleted.

More anti-Katie comments from the "censored" thread:

"It's all about the money and the power. It's hilarious that she has states that she NEVER gets angry. Yeah, right. What would you give to someone who held out the promise that you can be able to never get angry again? That's one of the biggest hooks. When you watch her videos on You Tube, pay attention to the aggression and manipulation. She just loves it when she corners somebody and the only way out is to agree with her. If you end up not agreeing with her, or won't follow school rules, you just weren't ready, and you are shunned. As usual with cultish leaders, her stuff is not new. A local church made $50,000 by having her do a one day workshop. With her organization getting richer and richer, and more and more people in it wanting a cut, it won't be surprising if internal conflicts surface soon. Have no fear, no matter what happens, Katie won't get angry!"


More "shilling" from Jody:

"I didn't say she wasn't playing the guru card. This blog is called guruphiliac. That means I like gurus. But I don't like the ones who want you to think they're more God than you. Katie is playing Ms. Special because that sells seats, and I do think that sucks, as I've repeated about 10 times in this thread alone."

(this is a partial cross-post from another thread, due to the links into the threads, for those coming in from external links. Perhaps any further comments about Jody Guruphiliac should be in this thread, with just a link to the thread?)

[forum.culteducation.com]

Jody Guruphiliac is certainly NOT "deluded" about Byron Katie. No, he knows exactly what it is about, in terms of the LGAT.
Its pretty clear to fresh eyes, that jody uses many of the tricks of the trade in his work.
But why?
who knows.

Why do so-called Cult Apologists do their work? Money, beliefs, secret gurus, etc. Some of them are hired and paid by gurus to act in an arms length fashion. That has been well researched.

Cult Apologists?
[www.culteducation.com]

There clearly are a number of Guru-Apologists out there, who even call themselves Anti-Gurus.
That is quite a clever angle.
I think if I were a Guru, the first thing I would do is to claim I am not a Guru, and tell everyone to leave the room if they wanted a Guru, even throw a few people out.
If I was a rich Guru, I might even get an acolyte to pretend they were an objective source out there, and quietly refer people my way. (for their own good, of course!)

So its a subject for further research and data gathering.
I do see some evidence for Anti-Guru-Apologists, who run blogs attacking most Gurus, but are hands off of a few, and have possible connections to promoting the guru, even in secret ways behind the scenes.
They even subtley CRITICIZE their own guru, to diffuse any questions.
One might be surprised if there are NOT doing this.

Its different from the Cult Apologist who is defending "new religions".
These one are against ALL Gurus, and the trick is to reframe their own guru as not being a guru.
By the way, how many people who have a guru even know they have one anymore? They got over that hurdle decades ago, usually by screaming...

"I AM NOT YOUR GURU. GET OUT IF YOU WANT A GURU. BE YOUR OWN GURU.
now lets get down to The Work, my sweet loving friends...you are all like my own children to me"

Quote
The Anticult
(this is a partial cross-post from another thread, due to the links into the threads, for those coming in from external links. Perhaps any further comments about Jody Guruphiliac should be in this thread, with just a link to the thread?)

[forum.culteducation.com]

Jody Guruphiliac is certainly NOT "deluded" about Byron Katie. No, he knows exactly what it is about, in terms of the LGAT.
Its pretty clear to fresh eyes, that jody uses many of the tricks of the trade in his work.
But why?
who knows.

Why do so-called Cult Apologists do their work? Money, beliefs, secret gurus, etc. Some of them are hired and paid by gurus to act in an arms length fashion. That has been well researched.

Cult Apologists?
[www.culteducation.com]

There clearly are a number of Guru-Apologists out there, who even call themselves Anti-Gurus.
That is quite a clever angle.
I think if I were a Guru, the first thing I would do is to claim I am not a Guru, and tell everyone to leave the room if they wanted a Guru, even throw a few people out.
If I was a rich Guru, I might even get an acolyte to pretend they were an objective source out there, and quietly refer people my way. (for their own good, of course!)

So its a subject for further research and data gathering.
I do see some evidence for Anti-Guru-Apologists, who run blogs attacking most Gurus, but are hands off of a few, and have possible connections to promoting the guru, even in secret ways behind the scenes.
They even subtley CRITICIZE their own guru, to diffuse any questions.
One might be surprised if there are NOT doing this.

Its different from the Cult Apologist who is defending "new religions".
These one are against ALL Gurus, and the trick is to reframe their own guru as not being a guru.
By the way, how many people who have a guru even know they have one anymore? They got over that hurdle decades ago, usually by screaming...

"I AM NOT YOUR GURU. GET OUT IF YOU WANT A GURU. BE YOUR OWN GURU.
now lets get down to The Work, my sweet loving friends...you are all like my own children to me"

quite right anticult.
a true Guru does not have to advertise....and often you might have a guru and not even know that one has come into your life until he/she has left, then all of a sudden the "light" literally switches on, and you realize you have been "given" a lesson (AND WITHOUT HAVING TO FORK OUT ZILLIONS OF $$$$! - or having to spend a gruelling weekend locked up in a hotel room with a bunch of sheep! - sorry, i'm being a bit sarky here...but you know what i mean.

regards,
Shad

K, I checked out Guruphilliac and all the comments.

I don't get the impression that he is supporting Byron Katie. He's actually said some very true and rather derogatory things about her. And, just the fact that he is critical about her is enough for me. Apparently, he's not been involved too much with The Work, so he's just giving a general opinion with the information he's been given.

He's entitled to his opinion as much as everyone else is.

I noticed he's got a blog up now about Eckhart Tolle.

What do Eckhart Tolle and Byron Katie have in common?

I almost bought one of his books prior to the School, but I was so burnt out on this stuff, I skipped it. Apparently, that was a good thing. What's his schpiel?

I would agree that outright "supporting" Byron Katie is not the correct word. Its better expressed as creating a "distortion field" and more confusion around Byron Katie, and trying to minimize and deflect from the LGAT aspects of it. To me its not the personal opinion, its the deflection, and the bias and conscious distortion. That does create an open door.
In my book, when someone who knows better as they are in the business, starts calling an LGAT Voluntary, and blaming the victims, that is crossing the line big-time. Its no different than saying the Landmark Forum is voluntary and the first meeting is free. The Landmark Forum is one of the most destructive LGAT's out there, as evidenced over many years. The thing can wreck your life.
[www.culteducation.com]

In only takes a thin slice of the wedge to get them into the tent of the LGAT. It all starts with a tiny "yes" or even "maybe".

As far as Eckhart Tolle, there was an old thread that got revived recently...
The Power of Now - Eckhart Tolle
[forum.culteducation.com]

Shakti, I think you've made some good points in this and the other thread re Byron Katie... am appreciating very much your additions to this intense discussion. Thank you. :-)

Quote
The Anticult
I would agree that outright "supporting" Byron Katie is not the correct word. Its better expressed as creating a "distortion field" and more confusion around Byron Katie, and trying to minimize and deflect from the LGAT aspects of it. To me its not the personal opinion, its the deflection, and the bias and conscious distortion. That does create an open door.

Yep, that's my beef with Jody/Guruphiliac too.

Shakti,

there's no point going back and forth. Some words being used can be thought of in various ways. As far as "censored", of course that is a strong word, but come on, its a moderated blog, and JODY WROTE he did not post what he doesn't want to post! He wrote it! and only portions of certain posts were given, and then disputed with HIS context. Also, at the time most of that was being posted, any comment criticizing Katie was dissected, yet the ones pro-Katie appeared whole. So what's that?
That's pretty bad manipulation of context.

So to wrap up...this is my short-version. He initally did hammer on Byron Katie in the first post. Fine. Then his buddy talked to him. He either persuaded him LGAT's are Voluntary, or something else happened. That we will never know.
But then Jody began a serious attack on the victims of the LGAT, saying basically they get what they deserve, etc. Werner Erhard time.

As far as "shilling" for an LGAT, that is a subtle thing.
For example, if I had a blog, and I posted..."I would not do the Landmark Forum, but the free course is only a few hours, so it can't really hurt."
is that shilling? YES, big time, that is how they do it.
They go further, they say..."man, I don't know, Landmark is pretty controversial and powerful, I don't know if you should". In that context, that is also a shill.

When it comes to LGAT's they are very smart. They have designed them as effortless to get in.
FREE 2 HOUR SEMINAR, FREE GIFT BOOK FOR ATTENDING!

That's all it takes these days. Even Katie has given some free or low-cost "teasers" those are the hooks. Every single LGAT does that these days.

So yes, people need to be told strongly to NOT go to these, as its dangerous for certain people. They could get locked-in for 10 years, easy, from that one "free" night.
And then they need to be given the info about LGAT's, and that specific LGAT. After that, they have to figure things out as best they can.
LGAT's are more dangerous these days than the old type cults and Gurus, they are so good the are invisible to most people.

Like I said, I am not commenting on the entire Guruphiliac blog, just the Katie incident.
Perhaps Jody does not know what an LGAT is, and that Katie does them? Doubtful, from someone in the business.
And then the back-pedaling, and confusion, and distortion, and false statements.
Trying to have it both ways to save face? maybe.

But things are easier when things are out in the open. Like does Jody get a commission for the people he does recommend on his website? Its ok if he does, but its not ok if it isn't disclosed.
Its about disclosure.

So again, I am not talking about the rest of his blog, but what I have seen from the Byron Katie information, he either does not understand what an LGAT is, does not want to understand, or maybe is trying to have it a bit both ways to save face all around.

But why not let his "source" from Byron Katie come and explain exactly how the Byron Katie LGAT is not harmful to ANYONE EVER!!! That is what his source said! Out of hundreds of people no one has ever been harmed! That is beyond laughable. Even real therapists make clinical errors...but not Byron Katie...she's PERFECT! No one has ever committed suicide after her event? Went bankrupt?

People having Trauma activated by that crazy woman Katie, with NO credentials are not harmed?
Yes they are, harmed very badly. Their lives can be wrecked for years.

If they are not harmed, why does Katie make them sign away all rights to HARM in a secret RELEASE?
Why does not Jody's insider show us the RELEASE they have to sign to attend?

You see, it doesn't make any sense. Maybe his source is some guy in his 20's who is a True Believer, that is possible. If so, WAKE UP, and stop activating Trauma without a license. That is very damaging. You are hurting people, you have no right to do that. Even pro's with 10 years of training worry about that.

also, Jody is constantly going on about the "cult of the anti-cultists". Who does that sound like? Cult Apologists use that all the time. Usually they say James Randi leads this cult. There is no cult of anti-cultists. Its a rhetorical device to do an Ad Hominem to derail the issues. And Jody uses it every five minutes. There is no cult of anti-cultists, what they see is called honest Critical Thinking, and they don't like it? They don't like honest Critical Thinking, as it has to be applied to friend or foe, including them.

Bottom line, I do not see the Guruphiliac Blog as a credible source for info about LGAT's. Bashing some Gurus you dislike, and loving ones you like, is not a credible position. It has to be based on a criteria of some sort, and applied with an even hand. If you want to be credible...if...not everyone wants to be credible or cares.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2008 12:54PM by The Anticult.

Okay... so back to The School for The Work...

I had a memory. This is a prime example of what it's like trying to have a conversation with someone engrossed in The Work.

I remember sitting at one of the rare meals where we were allowed to talk. There was this woman across the table going on and on and on about the amazing feelings she was having due to The Work. She said, "It just feels like my body is being purified... I feel like I'm detoxing!" And she went on and on about her feelings of detox, crediting it all to The Work.

When she was done talking, I said to her "Well, we've been eating organic food for a week now. That is actually very detoxifying, so you probably really are detoxing." A simple fact.

Too much reality, I guess.

She quickly retorted, "Well, DETOX, that's just my word. That's just what I call it." Like, she couldn't possibly be actually experiencing a major detox while eating organic seaweed and the like all week long. That was just too down to Earth... and took the credit away from The Work. It wasn't "magical" enough, I guess.

I bit my tongue and thought, "Detox is HER word, now, huh? She just made it up?" I thought of the hundreds and thousands of times I've heard this word used in every context... and I marveled about how this woman could claim ownership of this word...

And use her ownership of the word to nullify the simple fact that she'd been eating an organic diet for a week... and probably really was detoxifying... and that great feeling of healthy food working in her body had absolutely nothing to do with The Work.

It's amazing the lengths people can go to in order to distort reality when it suits their purposes. Nothing is shocking anymore.

-jj