Quote
jj52
Anticult,
What a loaded conversation that was! Whoo. Where do you find this stuff?

First of all, shouldn't the experience this LCSW had with his client be confidential? Why is he sharing this?

There is a public thread on the Byron Katie website called EST, Landmark and The Work.
That is from the open public thread. Can you imagine how they talk in their closed, private, senior recruiting and training forums?

This Social Worker posts his name and websites in the public forum.
He is trying to figure out how to persuade people into Byron Katies Work in the workplace? Really? Yep.
All of these LGAT's recruit people to do this. Its the Trojan Horse method, get it into the workplace through the backdoor.
He posted his name on their public website, so here it is below. Maybe he can come here and explain why he is trying to push The Work on people in his workplace, WHEN SHE ALREADY SAID NO. She said NO to the damn Byron Katie Dumb Work, and instead of listening to his client, he goes to get advice on how to manipulate her into it? That ain't ethical folks. That's more than wrong.

Byron Katie has ZERO credentials.
The Work has ZERO credentials.
The client said NO to the Work several times already.
What does he do? Tries to find ways around the "objection to the sale" like a salesperson. Is that not abusive? Does that not breach their code of ethics?

Here is the name posted on the open to the public website, so he can come here and explain himself if he chooses to.
----------------------
Billy Ledford, LCSW
My website:
[www.center4awakenedliving.com]
My Zaadz Page (w/ blog):
[billyledford.zaadz.com]
------------------------------

(this is the google cache of the thread, which is also posted above)
[72.14.205.104]

(this is the actual thread on Byron Katie website)
[www.instituteforthework.com]

(this area is where Byron Katie coaches people to take The Work into the Workplace)
[www.instituteforthework.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2008 04:51PM by The Anticult.

Ugh. Anticult, I can't even go there and browse that conversation... what a mind warp.

What I did read last night got me thinking... took me back.

I realized something else about the BK School for The Work... it doesn't just last 9 days. We were given a "dance card" to make appointments with people for the following month after The School. The instructions were to call your scheduled person for that day, and to do The Work with them and take turns. This could last for hours every single day. It was supposed to keep us going, to help us in our growth.

But, I realize now that it was really just to keep us tuned in and turned on to BK and The Work. When I stopped talking to everyone from The School... changed my email address and everything... I started to integrate back into normalcy. I got used to have normal conversations again, feeling my feelings through, and thinking my own thoughts. I think this is exactly what the 30 day aftercare program is for... to help participants build a network of Workers outside of The School, to keep them from integrating back into reality.

Billy Ledford obviously turns to the Workers for professional advice, instead of asking his colleagues... or referring the woman to someone else. (Keeping in mind, most of those people are not therapists of any kind.)

That's what the aftercare program teaches you... to stay tuned into your fellow cult members, and not to seek information outside of the group. Why didn't Billy do a thorough investigation of EST, instead of asking The Workers?

Because all information must come from the source-- the cult.

-jj

I posted this on another Byron Katie thread in response to Anti-cult's attacks on Jody Radzik and I will post it here with an addition.

Mohan: while I have not seen Jody post on Mohan, I am not going to assume that is because he doesn't care or supports Mohan. The list of crooked gurus is long and guruphiliac is not that old. Also, I have not seen any news reports on Mohan, only discussion of him on this board. Literally, culteducation.com is the only thing I've ever heard about this guy. So, if people wish for Jody to expose him, they need to forward him stories on his pursuit by the police so he has something to link to. Otherwise, all Jody could link to is the RickRoss.com Mohan discussion and that just ain't enough.


Dear Anti-cult,

While I share your surprise at Jody's relatively light treatment (however, keep in mind, his initial post was CRITICIZING her and he has not changed his position on that) of Katie, you are being inappropriate and attacking the wrong target. If you were merely criticizing Katie, I doubt that Jody deleted your comments. If you were ripping on JODY the way you are here, I can't blame him for deleting your comments. I have posted several times on that thread and have not been deleted, though I disagreed with Jody's light touch with Katie. Face it, he has a good friend who is sucked in and is apparently smart enough to fool Jody for now. From experience, Jody is flexible and as the posters flood him with Katie critiques, he will probably change his mind over time. That is what you should be doing HERE and on guruphiliac, ripping Katie and not Jody. Guruphiliac, like Rickross.com, is an invaluable resource in the battle for one's mind. This is not the place to rip Jody.

"Guruphiliac, Jody Radzik, is officially using his blog to shill for Byron Katie LGAT seminars."

-A thoroughly false statement, LIBELOUS in fact. Jody brought up the whole thing to MAKE FUN of Katie, not to support her. However, he was called by a friend who is a Katroid who told him to tone it down and somehow convinced Jody that Katie is "not a cult leader". While Jody accepted that notion, he still considers her a sleazy opportunist and has made that clear multiple times.

-There are new extensive comments being posted on his blog, by supporters of Byron Katie.Meanwhile serious critics of Byron Katie are censored from posting.

Wrong again. The bulk of the posts are by Katie critics and the ONLY person complaining about being censored is YOU.

Otherwise, thanks for your work, anti-cult, I thoroughly agree with you on Katie AND Neale Donald Walsch, who is a fascist and needs to be called out as such.

Well, I've reading about EST/The Forum/Landmark today to see what the similarities with Byron Katie's School really are.

REMARKABLE similarities. DISTURBING similarities. Enough similarities to put any doubts about BK's cult/guru status to rest.

-jj

Quote
jj52
Well, I've reading about EST/The Forum/Landmark today to see what the similarities with Byron Katie's School really are.

REMARKABLE similarities. DISTURBING similarities. Enough similarities to put any doubts about BK's cult/guru status to rest.

-jj

Yep. It's all the same crap. Ramtha/The Secret, etc. Also, I highly recommend checking out the Institute of Noetic Sciences, which, along with Esalen, seems like Ground Zero for all this crap.

Quote
shakti
I posted this on another Byron Katie thread in response to Anti-cult's attacks on Jody Radzik and I will post it here with an addition..

Shakti, not sure why you feel the need to defend Guruphiliac Jody...have you seen the way the guy deals with any marginally critical post on his blog? Just vicious personal attacks, and raging insults the level of a schoolyard.
Where is the insight? I don't see any. ZERO. Just Ad Hominem..."you a moron who (insert insult)".
Where is the analysis?

I am not attacking Radzik personally, I am disputing his obvious false statements about Byron Katie, and what that means.

Now Jody is attacking Eckhart Tolle as a...

"flimflammer... Depends, the adult diaper company, needs to develop a product for the mouth to keep assholes like Tolle from spewing shit like this."

No insight, just insults.
There was some comment from guy saying something like...uh...I don't get it...Tolle costs less and is doing the same thing...yet he is bad and Byron Katie is good? And Jody's response was something like..."they are WAY different man, can't you see that, or is your head full of rocks and you momma is a...(or whatever).
Then he spews out some smokescreen about them, which is not even close to being accurate.

And pure blatant unadulterated hypocrisy from Jody Radzick. A 12 year old child could see it.

Well, guess what? Tolle is probably way less damaging than Byron Katie. Byron Katie wants you to FALL IN LOVE with her. Love Bombing, that is very dangerous stuff for certain people. She is running all these LGAT's, etc. Much worse than Tolle.

so here is the link to my response to Shakti about The Guru-Lover, Jody.

[forum.culteducation.com]

and a coda:

also, as was mentioned already, jody deliberately distorted Byron Katies claims about God, and being God, and the rest of it. She literally believes she is God.
Why did he distort that? Is that right? Is it ok to do that, and not get called-out about it? No it is not.

I know the BK people would play word games with it, but she is claiming she is God, in a solipsist sense, and who knows what she really thinks?
Byron Katie is a master mass-hypnotist, among her other talents of personal persuasion, charisma, and manipulation.

No one is saying Byron Katie is Sai Baba.
But is it less dangerous or MORE dangerous for a Guru to being wearing robes, or dressed as a housewife?
If a Guru says they are not a Guru, is is true because they say so?
If a Guru posts hypnotic pictures Love Bombing you with her eyes, like Byron Katie, that is not a Guru?

Jody has said he LOVES GURUS. Guruphilliac.
philiac: suff.
1. One that has a tendency toward: hemophiliac.
2. One that has an abnormal attraction to: necrophiliac.

-Philia: [www.google.com]

So that is what is being said.
Jody Guruphiliac attacks Gurus he does not like. Great.

And he SUPPORTS Gurus he loves, or has an "abnormal attraction" too.

So what's the problem?
His own blog means Guruphiliac = AN ABNORMAL ATTRACTION TO GURUS.

So which Gurus does he support? Just put a list on his website.
Why all the deception?
This is not the first time a bias towards certain Guru's has been noted about Guruphiliac.

Some folks never learn life is easier and better when you just tell the truth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2008 05:01AM by The Anticult.

lastly, Jody Guruphiliac is certainly NOT "deluded" about Byron Katie. No, he knows exactly what it is about, in terms of the LGAT.
Its pretty clear to fresh eyes, that jody uses many of the tricks of the trade in his work.
But why?
who knows.

Why do so-called Cult Apologists do their work? Money, beliefs, secret gurus, etc. Some of them are hired and paid by gurus to act in an arms length fashion. That has been well researched.

Cult Apologists?
[www.culteducation.com]

There clearly are a number of Guru-Apologists out there, who even call themselves Anti-Gurus.
That is quite a clever angle.
I think if I were a Guru, the first thing I would do is to claim I am not a Guru, and tell everyone to leave the room if they wanted a Guru, even throw a few people out.
If I was a rich Guru, I might even get an acolyte to pretend they were an objective source out there, and subtley refer people my way. (for their own good, of course!)

So its a subject for further research and data gathering.
I do see some evidence for Anti-Guru-Apologists, who run blogs attacking most Gurus, but are hands off of a few, and have possible connections to promoting the guru, even in secret ways behind the scenes.
They even subtley CRITICIZE their own guru, to diffuse any questions.
One might be surprised if there are NOT doing this.

Its different from the Cult Apologist who is defending "new religions".
These one are against ALL Gurus, and the trick is to reframe their own guru as not being a guru.
By the way, how many people who have a guru even know they have one anymore? They got over that hurdle decades ago, usually by screaming...

"I AM NOT YOUR GURU. GET OUT IF YOU WANT A GURU. BE YOUR OWN GURU.
now lets get down to The Work, my sweet loving friends...you are all like my own children to me"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2008 05:39AM by The Anticult.

"Shakti, not sure why you feel the need to defend Guruphiliac Jody...have you seen the way the guy deals with any marginally critical post on his blog? Just vicious personal attacks, and raging insults the level of a schoolyard. "

-Because I like most of his work. Bottom line: if you don't like his website, why are you reading it? It is not everybody's cup of tea, and Jody can be rude and insensitive, like a million other bloggers out there. I view him as I would an entertainer or comedian, not as some kind of sociologist. If more of America's media, academia, law enforcement were DOING THEIR JOB and going after these cults, then people like Jody would not have a following. But he fills a void. Imperfectly, but he tries to fill it. Why don't you start an anti-Katie blog instead of just ripping on Jody? I've disagreed with Jody plenty of times, but I still like his site.

"I am not attacking Radzik personally, I am disputing his obvious false statements about Byron Katie, and what that means."

-Wrong. You have called him a shill and intimated that he has some kind of commercial relationship with Katie with ZERO proof. Sorry, man, that's personal.

"they are WAY different man, can't you see that, or is your head full of rocks and you momma is a...(or whatever).
Then he spews out some smokescreen about them, which is not even close to being accurate."

-Totally agree with you on that point and disagree with Jody. See, that wasn't that hard? Can't we all act like grown-ups? A simple "I disagree, Jody" is plenty.

"And pure blatant unadulterated hypocrisy from Jody Radzick. A 12 year old child could see it."

-No, not hypocrisy. Simply a failing. Jody is human, and simply wants to believe the best about his friend. He's loyal.

"Well, guess what? Tolle is probably way less damaging than Byron Katie. Byron Katie wants you to FALL IN LOVE with her. Love Bombing, that is very dangerous stuff for certain people. She is running all these LGAT's, etc. Much worse than Tolle."

-Don't really know, I just know they suck.

"Jody Guruphiliac attacks Gurus he does not like. Great."

-It's a free country, he can say what he wants and like what gurus he wants. I may not agree with him, but it's his choice.

"So which Gurus does he support? Just put a list on his website. "

-Let's see. He doesn't like Katie, but he doesn't think she's an "evil cult leader". I disagree with him on that point. He liked one guru a few months back who had some good insights, but didn't seek the spotlight. In fact, he was so un-self-aggrandizing that I can't remember his name! He said a few nice things about Adi Da before he figured that one out. But overall, you're ripping on a guy who has taken shots at 99% of the gurus he has posted about! Don't you have better targets?

"This is not the first time a bias towards certain Guru's has been noted about Guruphiliac. "

-OK, point out some other examples.

A small suggestion:

Guru apologetics is a rich topic in its own right and deserves a new thread.

Discussing Guru apologetics and LGATs on the same thread is like trying to play
a football game and a baseball game on the same field.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2008 05:41AM by corboy.

Quote
corboy
A small suggestion:

Guru apologetics is a rich topic in its own right and deserves a new thread.

Discussing Guru apologetics and LGATs on the same thread is like trying to play
a football game and a baseball game on the same field.

Or like Dr. Phil says..."you can't put feathers on a dog and make it a donkey"
:-)

I agree we need to stay on-topic.
Feel free to correct me if I am mistaken, but I do think that the Anti-Guru stuff does apply to Byron Katie, in a fundamental way. That is a huge part of it..her dressing like a regular woman even though she is a Goddess or God, or whatever. That is a great way to get people to feel more comfortable...

Friendly Fascists is related term, fascists who wear nice sweaters...
Gurus who wear pantsuits, or business suits, or jeans.

Also, more specifically to Byron Katie, there is one fellow who's coming up named Steven Sashen who runs his alleged Anti-Guru Blog.
[sashen.com]
Meanwhile, he is a huge supporter of Byron Katie, and other things. That strikes one as extremely odd, even suspicious.

How many folks are out there, in the context of Byron Katie, who might be running a Anti-Guru blog, who's main purpose is a Bait-and-Switch? Bring you in for one reason, then refer you to a Byron Katie LGAT on the down-low after a while?
Certainly the modern MSIA group does that all the time, they have all sorts of systems set up like that.
[www.caic.org.au]

The Anti-Guru Blog, or the Success-Blog, or the YouAreSpecial-blog, whatever it is, could be considered part of the LGAT, in terms of the sales process.
Its like a booklet, only with a person.
Bait and Switch.

As far as Byron Katie, one could research which blogs OVERTLY promote her, and which COVERTLY promote her, and even if there are some which criticize her a bit, yet still are in the referral game.
I think that should be considered part of the LGAT now, the internet Baiting blog system.

The main ones to watch, are the ones based on a Deception. The blog says its about Happiness Psychology...then after a few sessions or talks...the blog owner starts to say...
"you know, what might really work for you is a new technology of Happiness...its from this lady I've heard of...its called The Work...you should check it out....I happen to have a discount coupon code..."
DING DING DING!!!

LGAT Bait-Blogs?
:-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2008 06:16AM by The Anticult.