Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: September 03, 2009 05:48AM

Its very healthy that people are displaying such assertiveness, in the face of intellectual dishonesty and attempts at mind-games.
Because the Byron Katie LGAT seminar system, and many others, main technique is to find a tiny WEDGE in people's minds, and then use that wedge to work their way in.

They also try to eliminate all critical thinking.
So its very healthy to respond powerfully and assertively when someone tries to play those little mind-games.
Its the same with high-pressure sales tactics, as soon as you see them, just get out.
Same with the LGAT cult mind-games.
They are used to people who are "tooo nice" and are easy targets, but if people are powerfully assertive, then they just move on to find easier targets.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and BRIAN ADLER
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: September 03, 2009 05:59AM

And there is a reponse on the Guruphiliac thread [] from a person going by the name Brian Adler.
Who is Brian Adler?

Notice this guy IMMEDIATELY blames the victim. Immediately. A selfish, heartless and cruel response.
To try protect the multimilliondollar LGAT seminar franchise.
He then is deliberately dishonest and misleading, when he says the 4 Questions would not "escalate, de-compensate etc a bipolar patient."
Is Brian Adler a psychiatrist? How does he know this?
Also, its not the so-called 4 Questions, which are just the tip of the iceberg, is the bombarding of the person with dozens and hundreds of other LGAT techniques 18 hrs a day for 9 days at the Byron Katie seminar, that is the real problem.

Brian Adler is very misleading, and that is done carefully, deliberately missing the point of what really goes on. Like every LGAT seminar these days, they have a comprehensive disclaimer, as they know the seminar can hurt people very badly.
That is meant to cover their asses, when people get hurt, or worse, like the "death clause".

But what they say VERBALLY and person to person, is completely different. They tell desperate and impressionable people that their "technique" can cure anything and everything. So people go off their meds like crazy at all these LGAT's, and they are encouraged through peer-pressure to do so.
And they are forced to sign disclaimers, in case things go haywire, and end up in the hospital, or end up dead by suicide. That is why they have a "death clause".

Brian Adler then also says there should be "stronger limits" on who can attend the program?
This sounds identical to what Landmark says about the Landmark Forum, they use the same method.
Again, very dishonest.
They all put very strong language into their disclaimers, and tell certain people to not attend. But they know that hyped-up people DO NOT READ these disclaimers, they just sign it.
And they know that LGAT seminars damage many many people. That is why they have their massive disclaimer they force people to sign!! They know it hurts people.

And their SALES methods are the opposite to the disclaimer of course, and verbally they tell people the opposite, and with the LGAT peer-pressure people do crazy things. Going off medication, and flipping into a MANIC episode, happens at every single LGAT, they encourage manic states, as that is when people donate massive amounts of money, and sign-up for every course.
That is reality.
LGAT seminars, and their salespeople, know how to push people into manic states of mind, and they do it for their own self-interest. That has been studied and known for decades.

So who is Brian Adler, and why is he running interference for Byron Katie?
Brian Adler has links to BK books, Byron Katie on Twitter, Carol Skolnick, Steven Sashen, Neale Donald Walsch, an "intentional community" called Twin Oaks, and others.

Search Google for:

"Brian Adler" "byron katie"

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: TarSpiel ()
Date: September 03, 2009 06:24AM


I challenge the individual known as TarSpiel to go to the beginning of this thread and use his brain (the one that acquired the credentials mentioned) to do some reasoning...

Well, TarSpiel is just my message board real name is Jason...Jason File. Nice to meet you.

I have been looking through the thread...though obviously it's very long, and school started last week and I have lectures to prepare. But I plan on continuing to look through it so long as I feel like posting on it. So far, there are some things that seem to me like legitimate criticisms. Some of them are hearsay, and they might be true, but I'd withhold judgment on them (just as I'm withholding judgment on BK's cockroach story, which is also hearsay). And some of the criticisms seem to me to be frankly puerile.

I had a question come to mind. Do you think it would be possible at all for someone to post an opinion (like mine) on this thread which dissents to a degree from the majority opinion, *without* being a troll, sock-puppet, liar, or deceiver? In other words, is the original question, "Byron Katie (the Work) Legit?" it an honest question?

I don't really think I'm way out of bounds here...from what I understand guruphiliac isn't going after BK or the work either. I continue to be interested in some of the criticisms of her, but it feels to me like separating wheat from chaff.

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Byron Katie, The School for The Work: August 14 - 23, 2009 Los Angeles
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: September 03, 2009 06:44AM

What a vile and ruthless enterprise they are engaged in.
It appears another Byron Katie LGAT seminar School just finished...

The School for The Work: August 14 - 23, 2009 Los Angeles, California

After each LGAT seminar School, there are reports [] that come out of terrible things that happen to people, and their reponse is always the same...
blame the victim.
Even Brian Adler IMMEDIATELY seeks to blame the victim, while carefully ignoring the years of complaints of how these LGAT seminars psychologically damage people.

Why is it the LGAT seminar "disclaimer" details so precisely the psychological damage that can happen to people? Why do those who run the LGAT seminar knows EXACTLY what is going to happen to some people who attend?
Because it happens at every LGAT seminar they hold, and they are trying to protect themselves.

LGAT seminar's constantly create this psychological damage to people.
There is another new report of what happened to someone who attended the Landmark Forum LGAT, which is very similar to the Byron Katie LGAT seminar.

[] [My story: Landmark Education, psychological damage and psychosis]

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Re: Byron Katie, The School for The Work: August 14 - 23, 2009 Los Angeles
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: September 03, 2009 06:55AM

Hopefully, someone will cross-post this link to this thread []

into the Guruphiliac thread []

that way those who recently attended the
Byron Katie, The School for The Work: August 14 - 23, 2009 Los Angeles,
will have somewhere to post, and more insight into the psychological damage that has happened to their family members at the seminar.

The people running these seminars try to hide what they are REALLY doing to people, by calling it 4 Questions, or "field trips", or whatever else they can think up.
That is complete, utter, self-consicous bullshit.
They are LYING, and they know they are LYING. Its 100% self-conscious deception of the public.

They are carefully running dozens and hundreds of powerful techniques that are used in LGAT seminars, that is where the real power is, and where the real damage occurs.
Their main goal is to HIDE and CONCEAL those techniques from those who attend, and from the general public and media.
[] [Byron Katie and "The Work" Participant Reports]

They also deliberately misdirect and mislead people from understanding EXACTLY HOW THESE TECHNIQUES WORK, which is explained in this thread.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: TarSpiel ()
Date: September 03, 2009 10:19AM


Here's the link to the Byron Katie July 22nd Facilitator Teleconference again:


Please, someone, post a transcript.

Just got done listening to the teleconference call, and I was not that impressed with BK. She needs to be a lot more structured and forthright about the fact that people need to contact the law if there is child abuse, or if the law is being broken. And she talked about adultery and affairs between staff members and clients in a really fuzzy way, and she talked about that topic a lot.

I think that she and SM might have both made a really bad decision to get involved with each other. And whatever merits the Work has on its own, it probably should not be a business venture.

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Byron Katie, Turnaround House, depression, binge eating, trauma, rape,
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: September 03, 2009 04:07PM

Its almost unbelievable what Byron Katie tries to do.
On her blog, [] she posts some alleged anonymous "letter" from a person with who says they have very serious problems.

...Clinical depression, binge eating, trauma, PTSD, rape, self-abuse, self-destruction, suicidality...

How can she possibly get away, with making some sort of claim she can deal with these very serious life-threatening issues?
Where is her training?
Where is the proof?
There is none, of course. Absolutely nothing.

Now first off, BK always says she is not doing "psychology", yet here she is IMPLYING her Turnaround House can help this person, as the letter says this person wants to attend.
But notice, it very carefully does NOT say that the Turnaround House CAN help this person, the letter just says the person WANTS to attend.
Again, a very carefully written letter, so as to SUGGEST the Turnaround House can help with those issues, without actually saying it. Very cleverly written, yet again.
They imply they can help with these serious issues, without actually saying it. Covering their asses, yet again.

But worse, Byron Katie lives in a huge mansion, making millions from seminars and coachings, and the sale of countless products.
Why doesn't multimillionaire Katie "give" this supposed person the money? Because that is not what its about.

Anyone can see the point of this sales-pitch.
You post an anonymous unverifiable claim of an allegedly desperate person, and use that to try and get donations out of people who have kind hearts.
Meanwhile, where is the accountability? Were are the 990 Forms for The Work Foundation on that website?
There is none, of course, so no one can see where the donations are going.

But, it functions as a way to get donations.
It also functions as advertising for the Turnaround House.
Most importantly, its allows them to IMPLY that the Turnaround House can deal with...

...Clinical depression, binge eating, trauma, PTSD, rape, self-abuse, self-destruction, suicidality...

Without actually saying it, so they cover their asses.
Its ruthlessly brilliant, as that is their target audience.

...Clinical depression, binge eating, trauma, PTSD, rape, self-abuse, self-destruction, suicidality...

And one can be certain, if that desperate person exists (which they probably don't), they would be forced to sign a "death clause" in their disclaimer, like the other disclaimers. []
And if that person did commit suicide after attending a course, then that is not going to be posted on the blog.
That gets hushed up, everyone is signed to non-disclosures, so no one knows what happens with these desperate people.

It really is a lot worse than has been said. Something is truly rotten to the core of this enterprise, to write, and create letters like that, specicifically targeting desperate people.
To troll the internet, looking for people who are so desperate, it can't get much lower than that.
Anyone who is a responsible person, would refer desperate people to trained licensed professionals, who have spent decades being trained to deal with those life-threatening issues.
Where is it going to end?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2009 04:16PM by The Anticult.

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Re: Byron Katie, Turnaround House, depression, binge eating, trauma, rape,
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: September 03, 2009 04:31PM

And of course, don't forget, BK is asking for donations to what, and for what?
To her own Foundation, The Work Foundation.
Then where does that money go?

As they say, that money then gets transfered back into the for-profit private companies owned by Byron Katie Inc, and her associates, to pay for the ticket to the seminar, or Turnaround House.
What unmitigated gall.

Asking people to "donate" money, which is then transfered right back into their own private companies, to pay the grossly inflated ticket price.
So the so-called "donated" money is literally going right into their private for-profit corporate pockets.

On top of that, the "prison" work, has been shown to be about buying THEIR OWN BOOKS and DVD's from their own for-profit companies.
Same deal, all the money goes right back to the Mothership private company.

It would be like if a "Walmart Foundation", took donations for charity, and then used those donations to buy their own Walmart goods at inflated retail price.

One has to wonder, if a non-profit and a for-profit interacting like that, is even allowed?
How can a non-profit entity you control, be used to buy goods/service from your own for-profit you also control? That is a recipe for abuse. Its just moving tax-free donations, right back into your own pocket.
Only in America.

The avarice and ruthless tactics, are almost unbelievable, but believe it.
Charity starts at home, and it ends there too.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2009 04:42PM by The Anticult.

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Byron Katie, The School, Mind Cleanse = Mind Wash = Brain Wash.
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: September 03, 2009 04:58PM

Check out the new propaganda on the BKI website, about The School For The Work, where they even try to reframe the "cultish" question, and try to explain away all of the LGAT seminar elements with misdirection. That needs to be analyzed step by step.

They deliberately try to reframe, and Turnaround each of the main objections.
They also are using the older definition of "cult", and using it as a Straw-Man, to push people away from analyzing the LGAT techniques of advanced persuasion. (notice they avoid that entire subject completely, on purpose).
They are now trying to use the word "cult" to their own advantage, by turning it around, and controlling how the word is defined, and then saying they are not that. Classic technique.

One key mistake they made is they use the term...UNBRAINWASHING.
They know exactly what they are doing to people. They know all about brainwashing, that is certain.
Mind Cleanse = Mind Wash = Brain Wash.
The message to your unconscious mind is very clear, and right there in the text and images.

The long hours, the many days, the isolation—isn’t this cultish?

Don’t you isolate members from society, as cults do?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2009 05:02PM by The Anticult.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 04, 2009 12:09AM

When I read the name 'Tarspiel' I free associate to the figure of the tar-baby from the Brer Rabbit story.

The more you try to struggle with the tar baby the more entrapped you get.

'Spiel' is just a line of verbal patter, seemingly triviel, but its what sales people use. It is a perjorative term because the person is not emtionally invested in his or her 'spiel' otherwise it would not be referred to as a 'spiel.'

That suggests the person does not have much respect for those whom he or she addresses with such a 'spiel'.

Because of the associations I get from this name, I chose, after reading a few representative samples, to ignore what the person has continued to write. When someone selects a name that carries this kind of message and then proceeds to behave as so very many of our prior 'astroturf' trolls have done, I feel free to ignore 'em.

There are much tastier fish to catch and fry out there--the bony slimy ones can be thrown back into the ditch.

Just my two cents. If anyone doesnt like it, Turn It Around.

Some Background on Kafka's Short Story, Metamorphosis



Principal Personages

Franz Kafka (1883-1924), a fiction writer and diarist best known for his short novels of existential despair and helplessness, most of which were published, unfinished, posthumously

Max Brod (1884-1968), a German novelist and Kafka biographer who, as Kafka’s literary executor, defied that writer's request that his unpublished manuscripts be burned

Rainer Maria Rilke (1875-1926), a major German poet whose admiration for Kafka’s work helped to establish the credibility of the novelist

Thomas Mann (1875-1955), a celebrated German fiction writer whose stories Kafka admired and with whose works Kafka’s have sometimes been compared

Gustave Flaubert (1821-1880), a French novelist and an important influence on Kafka primarily known for his realistic fiction

Johann von Goethe (1749-1832), a German poet and dramatist whose Romantic works profoundly influenced Kafka


Summary of Event

By 1912, Franz Kafka had completed The Metamorphosis and was reading it to his narrow circle of friends, but it was not until 1915 that he agreed to publish the story, which was issued in a minor serial publication, Die Weissen Blätter, under the German title Die Verwandlung. The haunting, nightmarish piece, destined to become a modern classic, tells the story of a self-effacing salesman named Gregor Samsa, who wakes one morning to discover that he has been transformed into a "monstrous vermin," a large, cockroach-like insect. Unable to adapt to his circumstances, Gregor finally, and willfully, dies of disillusionment and starvation.

Despite its somewhat repulsive predication, The Metamorphosis is an intriguing modern allegory. Gregor, a hardworking, respectful young man, simply accepts the grotesque change as his lot. In fact, he is anxious only about its impact on his ability to meet his obligations to his employer and his family. The metaphysical implications of his fantastic transfiguration concern him not at all.

In the insect's body, Gregor calmly attempts to meet or evade his humdrum responsibilities as if he were suffering from nothing worse than the flu or the common cold. How to get out of bed, how to move across the room, how to get to work on time, how to explain his failure to get there when it becomes obvious that he will be late--these and myriad other banal problems are what he mulls over….

In his story, Kafka was undoubtedly exorcising some personal devils, notably his ambivalent feelings toward his father, Herrmann, an overbearing, intemperate, and tyrannical man whose worldly values repeatedly collided with his son's aesthetic interests. A shrewd, self-made entrepreneur and owner of a wholesale luxury-goods business, Herrmann Kafka was an unmerciful taskmaster who treated his servants and employees abysmally. Kafka’s reaction to his father's behavior was both to turn inward and to nurture a basic kindness and decency in his dealings with others, behavior for which his father found him weak and irresponsible.

While the equation of Gregor with Kafka and the senior Samsa and Gregor's boss with Herrmann Kafka is of speculative interest, it is of less importance than the particular modern themes that evolve from such character contrasts. Gregor is victim--a hapless, antiheroic protagonist who, hamstrung by his own decency, is unable to cope in a world that is at best indifferent and at worst deliberately hostile and cruel. Furthermore, he becomes totally alienated from those whose love and loyalty he should command. Turned into an insect, lacking the physical capacity for speech but still endowed with human longing and rational powers, Gregor is literally unable to communicate with his family. As metaphor, Gregor, despite his limited spiritual vision, is the sensitive but ineffective man isolated and alone in a brutal, depressing world that relentlessly progresses along Darwinian and Freudian lines.

The dominant mood of The Metamorphosis is one of gloom and despair. Life the Samsa family is dreary and largely uneventful. If there is any hope for anything. other than an empty, time-serving existence ending in an obscure grave, it lies in Grete's potential as a violinist or, for the author, in his own art. It had been Gregor's hope to fund his sister's training at a conservatory, but with his metamorphosis, that hope is crushed. Ironically, as the story progresses and Gregor becomes more adept as an insect, he also becomes increasingly sensitive to Grete's playing, with the allegorical implication that in order to develop fully an aesthetic sensibility, modern man must withdraw from or be ostracized by a society that no longer cares about what he thinks, much less what he feels.

Although there is an apparent kinship between Kafka’s fiction and that of Russian writers from Nikolai Gogol to Anton Chekhov, the writers Kafka admired most were Johann Goethe and Gustave Flaubert. The latter has been credited with having prompted Kafka to use antiheroic protagonists treated with scientific detachment, the former with having instilled in him an abiding sense of Weltschmerz, or "world sorrow". Kafka, a Jew, filtered these influences through a consciousness acutely sensitive to social victimization and familial obligation. What evolves from that confluence of ethnic and literary heritages is the "Kafkaesque" tale, a story told in straightforward, simple prose that deals with a hapless protagonist who, while maintaining a cringing respect for authority, suffers anxiety and depression from a failure to measure up to its demands. Ironically, that authority, in whatever form, is often illogical or inscrutable and is invariably dehumanizing.

It is that irony that gives The Metamorphosis its disquieting and provocative power. After his transformation, Gregor, although powerless to meet his obligations to job and family, develops a maturing, humanizing self-awareness. In addition to becoming increasingly sensitive to the feelings of others, he begins to appreciate his sister's music, that form of human expression that impinges most directly on man's soul. Meanwhile, the authoritarian figures, Gregor's loutish father and the bullying office manager, both reveal a total insensitivity and mounting hostility toward Gregor--particularly the parasitical father, who resents having to return to work and holds Gregor responsible for all ills that befall the family. Clearly, the real vermin of the piece are the selfish exploiters who treat others without a shred of human compassion or respect.

and--we can be thanked that Kafka's manuscripts were saved.


Impact of Event

General recognition of the literary achievement of Franz Kafka did not come until after his death from tuberculosis in 1924, in part because Kafka himself had been reluctant to publish more than a small sampling of work. Although he had early champions among a small coterie of German-language literati--in Rainer Maria Rilke and Thomas Mann, for example--it was not until the posthumous publication of his unfinished novels in the late 1920's that Kafka’s reputation began to grow and his works, in translation, broke geographical and language boundaries. Had his friend and biographer Max Brod not chosen to ignore Kafka’s dying wish that his unpublished burned, Kafka would probably have remained an obscure and largely ignored writer.

I remember being urged to read the English translation of Rilke's Letters to a Young Poet.

Never did get around to it, though.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2009 12:21AM by corboy.

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