PS: this thread is not about me, Dr. Mann. Please stick to the topic at hand. Thank you.

Sorry, but I'm with Brian on this one.

You don't need a PhD to know the guy was off his rocker and has deceived thousands of people.

I may not be as smart as most but I can recognize when I'm being scammed.

THIS not only was a scam but was started by someone who was nuts and the guy at the head now is really NUTS!

jill w Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry, but I'm with Brian on this one.
>
> You don't need a PhD to know the guy was off his
> rocker and has deceived thousands of people.
>
> I may not be as smart as most but I can recognize
> when I'm being scammed.
>
> THIS not only was a scam but was started by
> someone who was nuts and the guy at the head now
> is really NUTS!


Thanks, jill w. LRH was one amazing character, and I do not write that with one bit of admiration.

Or maybe he was "crazy like a fox," you know? Whatever the case may be, something was just plain wrong with that man.

You miss the point entirely. Using terms like "off [his] rocker" and the psychological terms Brian used are not only inaccurate, but they diminish the credibility of anyone trying to honestly criticize a cult leader. Hubbard many have done many bad acts, but unless you're somehow superior to him, have the credentials to label him psychologically, and/or have evaluated him, such judgments are childish. It does not help the cause of cult studies to use such tactics.

You may not "need a PhD" to criticize him, but you do need one to give him psychological labels.
Cathleen Man, PhD

zeuszor:

The best thing to do in such a situation is to post within reasonable parameters.

For example, it is factual and fair to say, some mental health professionals have said that L. Ron Hubbard appeared to be mentally unstable, and then you must cite your specific sources.

Or you could mention that the coroner report found evidence of psychiatric drugs in Hubbard's blood at the time of his death.

Or you could mention that he once wrote a letter requesting help from mental health professionals, which is cited and shown on screen in "Going Clear."

Dr. Mann is right in calling you out about offering up a diagnosis you are not in any way qualified to make.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2015 10:04PM by rrmoderator.

RR, Cathleen: even though I chafe at being told what to say and how to say it (residue of cult experiences), I concede your point and thank you for your professional advice, and for your time.

Ditto..I appreciate those of you out there that have dedicated your lives to research and went on to get higher degrees to study this subject.

For sure, you guys are the experts.

Those of us who have been affected depend on the experts who will help shed light on something that has ripped families apart for many years.

It's clear to me, much of this has to happen in court or in front of congress.

We need you guys!!!

However with LRH, there have been enough experts out there that we have heard over time call him many things.

"Off his rocker", "Crazy like a fox", "Genius" or "Evil criminal"

Which is it?

Here is the truth. At this point any exposure is good, because it's the secrecy that has ruined many of us.

In the Going Clear documentary, young David Miscavige is described as "an auditing prodigy".

What exactly does this mean? Does it mean that he was good at auditing others, being audited, both, or what? Does anybody know?

I'm not sure if any real experts have used these terms. Perhaps you could say which ones? Also, there is research on the psychological history of Hubbard, with proper citations and references, which anyone is welcome to conduct a search for if they wish to be further illuminated. It serves no purpose in dismissing Hubbard by calling names. It diminishes his responsibility for his actions, which were done purposely and with awareness on his part, and not because he was "insane" or anything else.
Cathleen Mann, PhD

I think you might be right.

"It diminishes his responsibility for his actions, which were done purposely and with awareness on his part, and not because he was "insane" or anything else.

Thank you for that.

Many of us "name call" because we are so angry at the damage and that the IRS and authorities are not doing anything!