I was watching the news and it said in passing last night "George Bush, a Born again Christian....." and my heart about stopped. How did we get a Born Again Christian in the White house? That explains how he can wage this war on Iraq with out blinking an eye. Born again Christians believe they are in the right at all times from a religious stand point, and all others are condemned to hell. It concerns me that a BAC is running a war such as the one we are currently in.

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Originally posted by NowAtheist
I was watching the news and it said in passing last night "George Bush, a Born again Christian....." and my heart about stopped. How did we get a Born Again Christian in the White house? That explains how he can wage this war on Iraq with out blinking an eye. Born again Christians believe they are in the right at all times from a religious stand point, and all others are condemned to hell. It concerns me that a BAC is running a war such as the one we are currently in.

Bush Sr. fought Hussein too. They're fighting over oil not religion. The BAC stuff is a cover for a person who always claims he's doing God's will when he's really just a greedy warmonger.
He's in it for his wealthy friends. And JC said, "...it's easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than for a wealthy person to get into heaven..".

There is a whole lot of speculation about George w bush, bush senior and the whole presidential dynasty. As far as christianity goes, its a convinient blind for him just as much as islam is for Sadaam Hussein. People use religion as coercion and justification but that does not mean that religion is evil in itself.

If you watch the speeches given by both leaders, you will hear them saying ' bush is evil, god will strike him down' and ' sadaam is evil god will strike him down' , not using the same wording maybe, yet that is the message.

Attaining the higher moral ground is as much a part of the propaganda war as anything else. Bush's ability to launch the war without blinking an eye has much more to do with his personal politics than any beliefs he has, which as far as I am concerned, go no further than learning a passage from the bible when it suits him.

Think of it this way, how can Bush NOT be seen as a christian, born again or otherwise if the standard reads : 'In God we trust'?

The American power structure is built around the puritanical, white middle class surburban church despite what the constitution says (although some would cite a zionist view here), as precarious head of that structure, he has to tow the line in this way.

Charlie

Great reply , Charlie. I agree completely.

Further to my point and that of Mr Green, if I am not mistaken:

There are very few true religionists, whatever people's faith there are few devout paople of any tradition, most use faith and belief as a weapon because it has so much power.

A great evil can be perpetuated upon an individual by a group mentality, yet I think its dangerous to pigeonhole anybody by their ideals or religious leaning.

It seems that the influence of the cultish mindset tends to reduce a person to nothing more than an expounder of a particualr ideology, whilst diminishing their own personality to a secondary position.

Does this though mean to the outsider that that person ceases to be an individual? Do they become just a faceless cult member to the outside world?

I'm on the fringe of bringing a great discussion here but as this is where its leading I shall continue. There is no doubt that modern day 'cults' are utterly evil. Yet having said this Christianity was deemed a cult in roman times and indeed had many hallmarks that we adhere to today in identifying one.

Yet how can half the world have joined this massive cult since?

Christianity has huge benefits for some, and I believe for all to a degree, to what degree is dictated by the way in which it is practiced, and how it is influenced by ministers, preachers etc etc. The bottom line is faith exists, it is a basic human need, million dollar industries are built upon the exploitation of faith, atheism is a philosophy which exists only due to the existence of faith is the first place, although I sure some would disagree.

This is a slightly muddled post and I may have wandered off the path slightly but it merits discussion I think.

Charlie

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Originally posted by urantiafox
Further to my point and that of Mr Green, if I am not mistaken:


I'm on the fringe of bringing a great discussion here but as this is where its leading I shall continue. There is no doubt that modern day 'cults' are utterly evil. Yet having said this Christianity was deemed a cult in roman times and indeed had many hallmarks that we adhere to today in identifying one.

Yet how can half the world have joined this massive cult since?

Christianity has huge benefits for some, and I believe for all to a degree, to what degree is dictated by the way in which it is practiced, and how it is influenced by ministers, preachers etc etc. The bottom line is faith exists, it is a basic human need, million dollar industries are built upon the exploitation of faith, atheism is a philosophy which exists only due to the existence of faith is the first place, although I sure some would disagree.

Charlie

If you saw the movie "Shine", David Helfgott's father hated Judaism as nonesense but had a Bar Mitzvah for his son because it was "...a goldmine..." People join religions because of what's in it for them and not because they believe in the doctrines many times.

Perhaps it's the definition of cult that is getting in the way.

According to the OED, cult used to mean:

1. Worship; reverential homage rendered to a divine being or beings. Obs. (exc. as in sense 2).

2.a. A particular form or system of religious worship; esp. in reference to its external rites and ceremonies.

b. Now freq. used attrib. by writers on cultic ritual and the archæology of primitive cults.

For our purposes, the definition is more along the lines of:

3. transf. Devotion or homage to a particular person or thing, now esp. as paid by a body of professed adherents or admirers.

Their examples are: the cult of Beauty and the cult of Wordsworth :)

Obviously, no human can see what is in another's heart, but our President has made it clear by his behavior and speech who it is he serves. I don't believe it is possible to be successful in politics in this day without compromise, lies, deceit...

Richard, in reply to your discussion of the eye of the needle parable; just read the next verse. With man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible. A wealthy person has a false sense of security, and likely plenty of false friends to flatter him. I like what C.S. Lewis said about how God whispers to us in our pleasures but shouts at us in our pain.

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Originally posted by Claire

Richard, in reply to your discussion of the eye of the needle parable; just read the next verse. With man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible. A wealthy person has a false sense of security, and likely plenty of false friends to flatter him.

I will look it up but rich people and especially politicians usually have to do things that are against strict ethical and religious principles to get where they have to go. And many times wealthy people worship their bank accounts and not any God.

I often wonder how so many people can be "blind" to Bush's motives and then I remember my 12 year devotion to one woman and her 12 step/therapy "community".

I wasn't entirely blind, but when I decided to play her game, (because it was the only way I could save my marriage) I went along 100% which included telling my family I couldnt see them any longer and after several years of no contact making them come to "family therapy" sessions. ugh

The frightening part is that with this woman and I understand with all charismatic leaders, whatever you do is never quite enough. And that seems to be the Bush oiligarchic mentality: First, Iraq, then Syria, Iran, Egypt... and then the entire planet! Mwuaha ha