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Re: Universal Medicine
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 24, 2013 09:36PM

In one of the social commute essays, I wrote


Whether you can stay friends will be another matter. But dont compromise your own core boundaries. If treating a living human being as infallible creeps you out or makes you laugh--dont forget that about yourself.

If you were told about ancestors who came to the US to flee oppression or famine perpetrated by governments with divine right monarchs at the helm, and you feel disgusted at the idea of a mere human mortal sitting on a throne and being grovelled to as a guru and your friend is mixed up with something like that---

Remember who you are. Whether your friendship will survive this difference is another matter.

Remember who you are and what your ancestors went through.

And, if you are Australian, and have ancestors who were convicted of quality of life crimes (done because they were poor, such as poaching game to EAT) and well fed, big bellied judges at Old Bailey sentenced them to Australasia--

Well, remember those ancestors. They would be dismayed to see their descendants, born into civil liberty, giving that away to grovel to another human being.

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Re: Universal Medicine
Posted by: HerbertKane178 ()
Date: October 29, 2013 10:11AM

There's an interesting wiki page on "Groupthink" that a good friend sent me. Well worth a read, and here's the summary:

"Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people, in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an incorrect or deviant decision-making outcome. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative ideas or viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences."

Sound familiar?

Here's the link for those that are interested:

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Gurus taking Credit for Endogenous Neurological Events/Visions
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 09, 2013 10:47PM

These two items by Professor David Lane are well worth a peek.

Very many people seem wired to have auditory or visual neurological events if given suggestions--even by someone who does not identify as a guru.

If someone claims to 'give' such experiences and perhaps adds tecniques used in large Group Awareness Trainings, which facilitate regression, mood swings and bonding--thats heavy duty.


Using Inner Visions to Your Social Advantage

(quote)It turns out that almost everybody has the inherent ability to see inner light and hear inner sound. Moreover, almost everybody has the capacity to have an out-of-body experience and behold wondrous inner visions. You don't need to go to an Indian guru to have such experiences indeed, you don't need to go anywhere at all.

But that's not what Kirpal Singh and his successors told their vast following. Instead, unsuspecting seekers(who number in the thousands) were taught to believe that it was the guru himself, not the disciple, who was orchestrating the elevation of the soul into higher regions. But Kirpal and crew were not being completely forthcoming about the mechanism which governs access to such amazing sights and sounds. That mechanism is the brain and that three pounds of glorious tissue is the lot of all humans.

In the early 1980s when I was teaching religious studies at a Catholic high school, I tried several meditation experiments with my students which convinced me that Kirpal Singh and other gurus like him were taking undue credit for their disciples' inner experiences. In my trial mediation sessions, I informed my students beforehand about the possibility of seeing inner lights and hearing inner sounds.

Naturally, given the boring routine of secondary education, my students were intrigued. I informed them that I knew of an ancient yoga technique that would facilitate their inner voyages. I turned the lights off, instructed them briefly about closing their eyes gently and looking for sparks of light at the proverbial third eye. I told them that I would touch some students on the forehead lightly with my fingers. They meditated for some five minutes. I then proceeded to ask them about their experiences.

[Kirpal Singh invariably did such a process directly after his initiation ceremonies; he also kept a running tally of how many saw stars and so on-something which I have called the 'Kirpal Statistic'.]

To my amazement, since I felt that Kirpal Singh and others were actually transmitting spiritual power, the majority of my students reported seeing light. A few students even claimed to have visions of personages in the middle of the light. Others reported hearing subtle sounds and the like.

I repeated the experiment on four other classes that day. I have also in the past ten years conducted the same experiment on my college students (both undergraduate and graduate). The result, though differing in terms of absolute numbers, is remarkably the same. The majority see and hear something. It doesn't take a neuropsychologist or a sociologist trained in statistics to realize that Kirpal Singh and others were simply tapping into an already built reservoir of meditational possibilities.

What was unique about Kirpal's approach, at least in comparison with other Radhasoami gurus, was that he claimed to be the responsible agent, the medium through which such inner experiences can be transmitted. Kirpal's disciples generally did not question his grandiose claims, since many of them did indeed see and hear something during their meditation. What they, of course, did not fully appreciate was that almost anybody could have induced them to have inner experiences.

[I don't mean to suggest, though, that Kirpal Singh was not a good catalyst, but only that he was not unique and that his success at providing thousands with access to inner lights and sounds was not necessarily connected to his mastership.]

Religious devotees seem overly eager to give up responsibility for their own neurological happenings, believing instead that it takes a 'Master' to draw their attention 'within.' This may or may not be the case (and I am not implying that gurus don't have anything good to offer), but one thing is certain: Kirpal's claims, and others like his, cannot be divorced (as they often are in Sant Mat related groups ) from an initiates own cultural and psychological field of interplay.

It is that interplay, that acceptance as fact of a guru's method and the disciple's own inherent capacity-neurological or mystical-for inner experiences, which fuels the claims of would-be masters.

It seems wise to me, in light of Near-Death Experiences and the plethora of other meditation accounts, to inspect how we see and hear during our inner voyages of light and sound. Then we may be able to understand why such experiences can occur to almost anybody, anywhere, anytime. It may also help us contextualize and appraise the claims of gurus like Kirpal Singh, who insist on taking credit for their disciples' wondrous visions.

If, as I have suggested, that anybody can act as a conduit for such other-worldly experiences, then Kirpal and gurus like him should be judged on some other criteria, since their claims for uniqueness and exclusiveness are anything but unique and exclusive.

The 'Kirpal Statistic' is exactly that: the probable outcome that the majority of meditators, provided the necessary instructions in Shabd or Nad yoga practice, will see and hear something. (unquote)

In a follow up discussion, Lane had a dialogue. Whole thing is worth reading.

Will quote some excerpts.



Nice story, but it doesn't contradict the results of my experiments.

My point, lest we forget, is a simple one:

Almost anybody, given the right circumstances, can help others
"induce" inner experiences of light and sound.

I did it repeatedly, so have scores of other gurus (both in and out
of Sant Mat circles).

I didn't "transmit" anything.

But I did serve as a catalyst for eliciting that which was already
potentially held in reserve within that grand neural symphony we
call the brain.....

The gurus take undue credit, I believe, for that which is already
self generated.(unquote)


Yes, remember not all of my students saw light and sound.

But, more importantly, nor do ALL of Kirpal's initiates.

I have talked with dozens of Kirpal initiates who NEVER saw light
and sound during the time of initiation, even when Kirpal took them
to another room for a private sitting.

Just one week ago I had dinner with Robert Pirsic, an Austrian
businessman and an initiate of Kirpal Singh, who told me point blank
that he NEVER saw any inner light and NEVER heard any inner sound.

All of this despite the fact that Kirpal Singh took him aside
personally and gave him a one on one meditation sitting.

My point again is obvious:

The variablity of inner experiences and inner sounds can be
dependent upon a number of factors, not the least of which are:

1. The brain


2. The catalyst

I don't doubt for a second that certain gurus work better than
others in "inducing" cerebral fireworks, just as I don't doubt that
certain "prostitutes" work better than others in "inducing"
orgasmic discharges.

I know the analogy may at first glance seem crude but I don't think
it is.....

Orgasms--no matter how beautiful the lover--is something

The lover merely "excites" an already pre-existing program.

I would say the same with "gurus" and inner experiences.

They merely "incite" an already pre-existing program.

Taking credit for another's orgasm is akin to taking credit for
another's inner experience.

To be sure, some gurus may serve better in eliciting a mystical
response, just as some lovers may be better in eliciting an orgasmic

But let us not forget the underlying point:

the orgasm and the vision arise within one's OWN self.(unquote)

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Re: Universal Medicine
Posted by: HerbertKane178 ()
Date: December 05, 2013 09:48AM

This report emerged recently regarding the Charity Commission looking in to The Sound Foundation:


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Re: Universal Medicine
Posted by: HerbertKane178 ()
Date: December 05, 2013 09:54AM

Some local press from Australia on the links between Universal Medicine and a Men's Health conference:


There are several conferences going on in AU at present that would all seem to connected to Universal Medicine, however, no mention of them is made in the advertising. This one [] for example, featured Serge Benhayon and his daughter speaking, as well as a host of UM affiliates/supporters, but the website offers no hint of the connections.

This would appear to be a new 'soft' recruiting technique.

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Re: Universal Medicine
Posted by: HerbertKane178 ()
Date: December 05, 2013 09:58AM


Further 'conference' with UM connections, including Benhayon again as a speaker.

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Link to Old UM Thread
Posted by: Pranic Princess ()
Date: June 07, 2014 05:37AM

This is the link to the older 154 page thread that was lost temporarily in back up error: []

Great to have it back. Thank you RR.

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Advice to new visitors to this thread
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: June 07, 2014 09:51PM

This thread, started by Herbert, is for persons who are concerned
about UM, either on account of loved ones, or who themselves have
once been in UM and have chosen to depart.

From earlier descriptions, it sounds as though UM makes immense
demands upon its inmates.

On joining this thread, here are your basic rights.

A) If you get any PM from someone pressuring you to divulge private
information or that just feels strange, immediately contact
Mr. Rick Ross and send him a copy of the PM sent to you. He
cares about this message board and the private message function
remaining a safe, and bully free space.

This is not 'whinging.' This is necessary to keep the message
board and private message function a clean, safe place for

Send Mr Ross a PM by finding his handle rrmoderator and click on the live
URL. That will give profile information for Rick Ross and a link by which
you can send him a PM.

B) You are under no obligation to divulge your identity or your
contact information or prove your sincerity.

C) You are under NO obligation to respond to private messages
(PMs) from persons pleading or demanding that you go public with
the media.

If anyone importunes you to do so, claims you have
some sort of duty to go public, that is harassment. You'd
have been through enough browbeating when in UM.

D) YOu have a right not to get pulled into someone else's drama.

Send a copy of such PMs to Mr Rick Ross.

Anyone dumping on you to go to the media -- they should go to the media,
and leave you alone.

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