Here is a link to the online copy of "Churches that Abuse" by Mr. Enroth

[www.ccel.us]

It is no longer printed, that I can find so I believe the people at this site kindly put it online to be available to those who have questions about their own potentially abusive churches or for those who were part of these churches. Set Free (Phil Aguilar's church - father to Geronimo Aguilar) is mentioned.

The other book to strongly consider locating and reading is by Lois Trader "Christianity's Executioner: A Woman's Story of DENIAL" Keep in mind... Lois Trader was the fiercest of Phil Aguilar's defenders. She was THE bulldog who was sicked onto anyone who thought to speak out against Set Free for so many years. She held on so firmly to the belief that all was well in the church. Then one day the scales were removed from her own eyes.

That's what it was like for so many of us. We staunchly fought anyone who DARED speak out against our church or our pastor and the ministries. We fought even in the face of pretty obvious evidence. We clung to our faith (sadly, in the man and the church instead of directly in God and his word and spiritual guidance) until nearly the bitter end... well, I suppose not the end because even now Phil has a radical, but seriously reduced, group of, well, groupies.

The ROC claims to 100% stand for the King James Bible. They claim to be soldiers of Jesus Christ. Yet they live totally opposite of what the Bible says a christian is to be. I wonder if the pastors, deacons, leadership, secretaries, musicians, etc even read the Bible. Does the following describe G, Phil, or their leadership? And if it doesnt, and God's Word says it is supposed to, then why would anyone want to stay in a "church" that goes AGAINST God's Word?

1 Timothy 3:2 ~ A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 ~ Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4 ~ One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 ~ For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?

8~ Likewise must the deacons be grave, not double tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; 9~ Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 10~ And let these also first be PROVED; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. 11~ Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12~ Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

15~ But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. 16~ And WITHOUT CONTROVERSY great is the mystery of godliness:

1 Tim 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such WITHDRAW THYSELF.

regarding rocs salvation cards i have seen secretarys mark the cards with SOUL in place of a real name on the card and put them in the stack to throw into the container with other salvation cards. like 100 of them. maybe someone left the cards at church going out soulwinning but still, thats skeptical to me.

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friendofbill
regarding rocs salvation cards i have seen secretarys mark the cards with SOUL in place of a real name on the card and put them in the stack to throw into the container with other salvation cards. like 100 of them. maybe someone left the cards at church going out soulwinning but still, thats skeptical to me.

well to this i can explain frst of if you read my postings im not defending this place but i am just gonna explain why they do this with the cards see when i was at the ROC if you piss G or any pastor off what you do is give some halfway filled out card and tell the secretery then she will turn it in and tell G . so some of that is on the person turning it in you have to realize they have these women so brain washed . then G will no youe soulwinning and your cool again

these girls will beleive anything you tell them seriously . But i will not put it past certain people to pump the numbers i have seen people just fake all cards and turn them in i think this is just more of a honesty with the followers and im pretty sure the leaders look the other way causee it in turn makes them look good.


now a reply to this written by setfrrefrmtheroc

The ROC claims to 100% stand for the King James Bible. They claim to be soldiers of Jesus Christ. Yet they live totally opposite of what the Bible says a christian is to be. I wonder if the pastors, deacons, leadership, secretaries, musicians, etc even read the Bible. Does the following describe G, Phil, or their leadership?



i can only say that i have only ever personally seen 2 pastors at that church read there bible and im talkin sitting down in there office or a space alone and reading and no one can see them now lets talk bout the king cheese G
the only time i ever see him with a bible is walkin to service and walkin from his car to his office

most of his leadership is just kids because thats all they can get to follow them think about it get them when there young show them they can act like a gangster with out the cosiquences and its o.k if your scareing jesus in them .

this place is just a bunch of people who want to act to tuff but the moment something bad happens there able to say i am a christian preaching and dont hurt me .

i remember one time there was a guy who lived in the house of timothy wearing red bandanas and i talked to this guy who is related to pastor but he had a blue one if you truly went to the ROC you no who i am talkin bout. well one day i was talkin to him and he basiccly broke it down like this

"i dont tell these kids nothing cause there just kids , What you want me to do beat them up or even shoot them maybe i would if i thought they where a threat . But they are not they are just kids who are hood hoppers and if you even hit one of these fools up . you no what they have the balls to say it is for the blood of christ , what kind of b.s is this i cant blame them either if i knew i can go some where and act and pretend to be something im not to get girls then i would. there just kids what do you expect "

he goes on to say other things but the main point he put to me really made me think ? it was about the ROC

i had asked why he sticks around i was about to leave myself but i wasnt sure but when he said this it made me think

" this place is like a jail being run by prisoners if you think about it , almost every leader here use to be from the streets well some did and some didnt ( and most never seen a homeless person till they came to the ROC) but back to the point, so now these same in imperfect people are helping other imperfect people and some how you expect perfect results . sorry its not gonna happen ,and dont do good things only cause they want it. i dont do what i do for them i do it for me and the faster you learn that the better off you will be ."

i just felt like putting that when ever i think of this place that whole conversation pops up matter fact im gonna email this guy talk to you guys later

Everyone screws up! I thought it wasnt our place to judge?!

rocgurl whos judging. this stuff is either true or it aint. ask your pastor and see if he gives you the truth. truth is truth and why would anyone 30 pages long say all this if it werent so. open your eyes and see the light before its too late.

rocgurl, can you show scripturally where the Bible says "everyone screws up"? I find it pretty simple to understand. "Follow me, and sin no more". Not "follow me, but you'll screw up". Especially leaders!! Can you show scripturally where the Bible says it's ok for pastors and leadership (deacons, elders, ministry workers, and secretaries) to "screw up"? I havent found anything of the sort in the Bible. In fact, I've never seen in the Bible where the disciples, or churches even had secretaries for that matter. Paid by church tithes. Secretaries work for BUSINESSES. It's time for all Christians, that stand on the Word of God, to either live by the Word of God, or stop lying and saying they do.

Believers are the light of this lost lonely world. If we live just like them, "screwing up", doing the same things the world does, how are we being the light? How can we win people for Jesus, while living like the world? Many teach, and believe, that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, so we're free to live however we want. Common sense tells us, that's not true. When we truly love Jesus, emphasis on truly, the last thing we want to do is sin. Of course we still sin, we're sinners. But when we do, our heart is totally convicted, and we grieve, because we hurt our testimony, and we hurt the Lord. We don't continue doing that same sin over and over because we think we're forgiven. Bible says "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins". In the book of John it says "if you love me, keep my commandments". That's as simple as it's going to get. He doesn't say "if you love me, you're going to screw up". If He didnt mean it, why would He say it?

1 John 1:5-9 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not know the truth: But if we walk in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness". With that being said, what does "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not know the truth" mean???

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor theives, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God"

That's new testament, so the arguement that it's old testament, cant be used. God didn't put that in the Bible, just to take up space. God means what He says. Those things that Paul listed here are what Paul calls acts of “Sinful Nature”. We must remember that backsliders are still children of God but they have fallen backwards in their relationship with God and have lost interest in following Jesus. They have lost their first love or zeal because Satan has won them over and consumed them. However it is important to note here that God loves the sinner. Because Jesus Christ shed his blood on the cross for us for the forgiveness of sin and in doing so he paid for this sin and the others listed here. But, repentance is a must, to inherit the kingdom of God. "Follow me, and SIN NO MORE".

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.

It's crystal clear. People here arent judging. Alot of people here, have been exactly where you are. They love people, as God commands, by trying to warn them, sharing the truth with them. When you start digging in your Bible yourself, you'll see the truth. And when it comes to something as important as eternity, I'd rather see with my own eyes, then listen to someone hand pick what tonite's show is going to be, even though they don't at all live by what the Bible teaches, as they're standing behind the pulpit, saying that they stand for the King James Word of God. If they truly stood for it, wouldnt they live by what it says?? Deep down, you're feeling a sick feeling, that we've all felt, and you know the truth. What are you going to do about it? Just keep turning away from what your eyes see and know is wrong, or read the Bible yourself, and do what God tells us to do?? Those are the choices. Only we can make the choice.

But how are we to deal with backsliders within the body of faithful and true believers of Jesus Christ within the church?

First we must try to restore them or turn them back to God and away from their sins. (I know of many that have tried to do just this. They are laughed at.)

If that fails we are to withdraw or distance ourselves from them. Finally we are to let Satan have them and be done with them while they are in league with Satan and his demons.

Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we COMMAND you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye WITHDRAW yourselves from EVERY brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

Is there still any doubt? Do you still think that people here are judging, or trying to show loved ones that are still at the ROC, the truth?

”In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.” 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 (NKJV)

To deliver one over to Satan is not literal because only God can do that in the final judgment (Revelation 14:7) but it means that we are to excommunicate them from the body of the church (“When you are gathered together”) so all will know that they are honoring and following Satan and not God.

When we do so the hope is that without the spiritual backing of the church they will be left with no one but Satan in their sin and maybe knowing that they are alone they will repent and turn from their sins and return to God.

So we are to exclude them from the church, worship services, fellowship and other ministries of the church. Or in this case, where the leadership is who we're speaking about, obviously we cant really exclude them. But we can exclude ourselves from being a part of their sin.

Church Discipline is also outlined in the Bible in the New Testament and it tells us how to discipline backsliding sinners within the church or the body of Jesus Christ.

“If your brother sins, go and tell him his fault”.

That would mean that we are to confront brothers or fellow believers when we see sin in their lives which we should do anyway as in James 5:19-20 so that the soul will be saved.

Elsewhere Paul tells us that after this final excommunication step where we remove them from our fellowship (1 Corinthians 5:11) however we should forgive them if they repent and turn from their sins.

In the Gospel of Luke Jesus tells us that there is more rejoicing in heaven and in the presence of angels of God when one sinner repents. (Luke 15:7 - Luke 15:10).

So rocgurl, if you have read all this, you will see that people here arent judging. They are trying to help those of you that are still there, to see the truth, for your sake, as well as the rest of the body of Christ.

I would like to address rocgurl as well. Someone in a cult will point out to us all too quickly our particular sin/s or shortcoming/s. This is how they manage to disarm us if we let them. It is about frequency, duration, and ultimately intention. A case in point is when the ROC leader defrauded me. I produced court records proving they had lied to me about fines I was to have paid in their behalf. I have subsequently learned this is a variation of the bail bondsman scam. Upon confrontation, the way the person chose to respond was to suggest that I had somehow "violated" them because I had invaded their privacy by going to the court and pulling records. I told the person that court decisions were public records and under the Freedom of Information Act they had to be made accessible. This person did not apologize and indeed acted as if they were entitled to the money. I suppose a scam artist considers what they are able to deceive someone out of as some sort of a lawful wage.

I recall the person in the General District Court put on a real crying show about how I had "terrorized" them. A rescue squad had to come into the court. Deputies, lawyers, and court personnel were amused at the behavior. I was found not guilty largely because the person made such lies up that they were proven false. My lawyer felt the person should have been held in contempt of court for the behavior. Now if that person were to be asked about me I am sure my name would be dragged through the mud. They would go with one or two bad things they know about me and make me sound like the culprit.

All of us on here recognize that we are sinners who have come short of the glory of God. But we have to make judgments if we are to survive. We can be gentle like the dove or the lamb but ultimately we have to acquire the widsdom of the serpent. We have to recognize evil for what it is. Sometimes this is a painful, yea verily an expensive lesson for all of us to acquire. God will judge on judgment day. But we must flee the evil in our midst. there is more to Christianity than waving our arms in the air at Six O'Clock Rock and singing about"pulling down strong cords in the name of Jesus."

Rocgurl,

I really can appreciate where you are in terms of supporting your church leaders. I was there. I fiercely/blindly supported my leadership. I did use the same logic... "nobody's perfect" and "humans by their nature are sinful and faulty" (in fact, oddly those types of phrases were repeated often by the leaders in our chuch... it's a subliminal way of planting those concepts in the minds of the followers)

To address just one single of the MANY sins charged against the pastor of ROC I'm going to remind you about how he cheated on his wife with a then 15 year old Sammy B and ran off with her. (he was 21 at the time) Then, 6 years later in Texas he slept with a 12 year old girl and a 14 year old girl (according to a couple of different people's accounts who were there).

SetFreefromTheROC mentioned how true repentance meant recognizing and admitting one's sins and then turning from their ways. Has Geronimo EVER acknowledged his sins against his then wife Stacee and against the then minors Sammy B and the two seriously underage sisters? (some people might say he doesn't need to publicly acknowledge his sins. But as a pastor, leader of people in a church, and a public figure he IS obligated to publicly acknowledge his sins and seek not only God's forgiveness but the forgiveness of the people he is leading as an example of godliness. We have many examples of this by fellow pastors who have fallen).

The sins of sleeping with underage girls are also ones that will leave lasting effects on the young girls. More so because there is an added level of trust because he represented a leader in a church and a representative of God. Even I feel the lasting effects of the betrayal of my church leaders in the form of lack of trust of people, people in leadership and churches as institutes. Imagine if you were molested (hello, it's the legal definition of sleeping with a minor) by someone you trusted as your church leader and as God's representative. Thus, part of his repentance would be to seek out the girls and their families to ask for forgiveness. They may never be mentally able to do it, but it would be his duty to ask and apologize).

I'm curious..... what line must your church leadership cross before you start to question their godliness?

My hope for you is that you are not negatively affected and your trust in churches, or people, are affected in the long run.

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rocgurl
Everyone screws up! I thought it wasnt our place to judge?!